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 ? by WCP "So...you still think its ok not to use Clomid??...READ ON!! "
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| Author | Topic: ? by WCP "So...you still think its ok not to use Clomid??...READ ON!! " |
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BiggDogg Pro Bodybuilder (Total posts: 174) |
posted June 26, 2000 01:44 PM
 
Where does the free-flowing estrogen go when it does not have any receptors to bind with because of the use of anti-estrogens? Does it just passes out of the body or does it bind somewhere else? ------------------ IP: Logged |
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BiggDogg Pro Bodybuilder (Total posts: 174) |
posted June 26, 2000 01:45 PM
oops topic should have read a ? in relation to the post by wcp So...you still think its ok not to use Clomid??...READ ON!! you guys get the meaning. ------------------ IP: Logged |
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WCP Pro Bodybuilder (Total posts: 1140) |
posted June 26, 2000 02:14 PM
 Damn good question man...I could throw some idea out, but nothing real accurate. I would like to know this as well....where the hell is Macro when ya need him...heh..heh..heh.. Im sure its dissapated by the body in some way or converted perhaps...not sure how though.... Like I said..I would like to know this myself. Good Question. IP: Logged |
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rocky Pro Bodybuilder (Total posts: 303) |
posted June 26, 2000 02:27 PM
Good question. Just an idea: I believe anti-estrogens bind to the receptors, and when estrogen comes along it is converted or eliminated at the receptor sites by the anti-E, or not able to attach to receptor sites. IP: Logged |
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E2 Moderator (Total posts: 3535) |
posted June 26, 2000 02:33 PM
The antiestrogen blocks the receptor site, because they have higher binding affinities to the receptor than the estrogen in your body. Then the estrogen now has no where to go, it flows through your body and after a while dies. All these chemicals have rather short half lives. IP: Logged |
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BiggDogg Pro Bodybuilder (Total posts: 174) |
posted June 26, 2000 02:44 PM
thanks for the replies guys, that is very interesting e2.......thanks again. ------------------ IP: Logged |
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KTI Amateur Bodybuilder (Total posts: 2) |
posted June 26, 2000 04:16 PM
"The antiestrogen blocks the receptor site, because they have higher binding affinities to the receptor than the estrogen in your body." If anti-estrogens(lets say clomid) has higher binding affinities than estrogen, why does it take 50 to 100 times the amount of clomid to block estrogen? A male body only produces 0.07 mgs of estrogen if WCP post about the 100 to 1 ratio of testosterone to estrogen was anywere close. Surely males don't have 50+ mgs of estrogen floating around when on a cycle! That would cause cancer and natural levels of estrogen in males can cause gyno so I would think that cycling can only produce 1mg or less no mater what the dose is. [This message has been edited by KTI (edited June 26, 2000).] IP: Logged |
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BiggDogg Pro Bodybuilder (Total posts: 174) |
posted June 26, 2000 05:04 PM
Very interesting comments kti, is anyone else that would like to add anything to it ------------------ IP: Logged |
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E2 Moderator (Total posts: 3535) |
posted June 26, 2000 07:46 PM
KTI i'm wondering where you got these numbers from, sure the 100:1 ratio may leave you with 0.07mg of estrogen in your body, but we're not dealing with normal test levels. People easily take up to 25 times the normal levels of test when on a cycle. Now suddenly you have all this free test in your system, and in response to prolonged use your body will incrase production of 5ar, then all the free unbound test and the additional 5ar's suddenly your estrogen level go through the roof. We now need to block all that added estrogen. As well, taking a much larger dose of clomid in relation to the levels of estrogen in your body is an attempt to saturate the estrogen receptors and ensure that there is as little bound estrogen as possible. IP: Logged |
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KTI Amateur Bodybuilder (Total posts: 2) |
posted June 26, 2000 08:40 PM
Sure, but saturation does not need to be 50mg Clomid to 1mg of estrogen when clomid has a higher binding affinity. I'm sure that it can be reasoned that anything over ~1mg of estrogen is a bit too much for a male body to produce on a cycle when all it takes is puberty or fat to casue gyno in some. If clomid has a higher affinity I would think that 50:1 could be reduced. I'm just guessing at the 1mg thing from what I know about natural levels, which is still 15x. Can you share your ideas at how much estrogen a heavy cycle can produce? IP: Logged |
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Jay Z Pro Bodybuilder (Total posts: 868) |
posted June 27, 2000 12:25 AM
i wish i had nolva when i was about 15... ------------------ IP: Logged |
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Eramthgin Pro Bodybuilder (Total posts: 377) |
posted June 27, 2000 12:26 AM
bump IP: Logged |
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WCP Pro Bodybuilder (Total posts: 1140) |
posted June 27, 2000 01:20 AM
Ahhh..I love this stuff...great stuff you two...this are the types of posts and responses we need more of. If I learn something, the board has done its job. Later, IP: Logged |
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happymf'er Pro Bodybuilder (Total posts: 178) |
posted June 27, 2000 03:25 PM
HELL YEAH!!! Damn good read! Like WCP said we need more good posts like this one. ------------------ IP: Logged |
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zarathustra Amateur Bodybuilder (Total posts: 44) |
posted June 27, 2000 04:33 PM
bump IP: Logged |
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