posted June 15, 2000 06:54 PM            

L8R

posted June 15, 2000 07:00 PM            

Please tell me if I am wrong Those are just my feelings on the subject!!

posted June 15, 2000 08:25 PM            

Oil+oil is OK. Oil and water don't mix.

posted June 15, 2000 08:58 PM            

When you mix say water and soybean/cottonseed oil (the oil base for many AS products) and shake them very well, eventually the oil will form a layer at the top and the water will form a layer at the bottom, this is a function of density.

Now imagine adding a drug product, say Nandralone Decanoate to this mixture of water and oil and shook it for a little while, the Deca would be distributed uniformly throughout the mixture briefly. However, as the oil and water phase separate, the Deca will preferentially settle in the oil phase because it will preferentially dissolve in oil vs. water. This reletive affinity of a drug between 2 phases in an oil water mixture is called the partition coefficient. Deca has a reletively high partition coefficient and is more oil-soluble.

Despite the fact that most (lets estimate 70-80% for the sake of example) of the Deca will preferentially settle in the oil layer, the rest will settle in the aqueous layer. By adding water to the system and mixing it, you just changed the amount of Deca in the Soybean oil.

Now lets throw in some Winny in there. Winny has an alcohol group at position 17 which makes it more water soluble, that is why it is delivered in an aqueous base. However, Winny is still a very large molecule so it does retain a good deal of oil-solubility.

Now let me shed the technical bullshit and get to the point. Deca and Winny are delivered as IM injections in a given base (Oil, water respectively) to provide a given release pattern into the bloodstream determined by the formulation scientists at the drug companies. If you mix either of the products (Deca in oil or Winny in H20) with the other liquid phase, you are altering the amount of drug in its preferred phase and are thus altering the release pattern of the drug.

For instance, that soybean oil is gonna suck up a bunch of that Winny and drastically slow its relese from the depot, slowing its absorption into the bloodstream and keeping it from crossing cell membranes to bind to the steroid receptor.

Sh*t, I almost bored myself, I hope this was helpful to someone.

-Planet E-Toondralone Decanoate

posted June 16, 2000 12:54 PM            

------------------
"Get Juiced and Stay Loyal"

posted June 16, 2000 01:44 PM         

There is no debate, the two drugs will not mix due to their immiscibility. Even if you shake them up they will form an emulsion which is simply oil droplets suspended in the water vehicle. This will separate very quickly. Since oil based steroids have a low water solubility there will be very little that will dissolve in the aqueous vehicle. Then the Winny is a suspension of micronized crystals, which will not dissolve in oil at any fast rate. The short time required to draw up the two drugs and inject them is not sufficient to cause any crossing over into the opposing vehicles.

posted June 16, 2000 02:39 PM            

However, Winny, is another story. Micronized Winny (more oil soluble than water soluble)has an extremely large surface area to volume ratio and it would dissolve appreciably in the oil phase after shaking and separation.

Would this cause a significant difference in the rate and extent of Winny absorption, beats me. The 3 years I have spent towards a PhD in pharmacolocy/ pharmaceutical formulations tells me... definite maybe. So, I personally wouldn't risk fucking with Winny absorption it and I'd use 2 pins.

Just my 2-Bitz,

Toon

posted June 16, 2000 02:52 PM         

I never said it wouldn't work....but it could
cause problems. A friend of mine did that shizat and had such a big abscess that he looked like two different people. When he went to bars he had to pay 2 cover charges...one for him and one for his abscess. He was so hurtin' he couldn't hook up. His abscess got more phone numbers than he did.
Science/chemistry says one thing, but
time and time again they have been proven
wrong....it sounds like some of you guys are proof that the mixing doesn't really matter. I just like to play it safe. I say to myself, was my friend's abscess the result of mixing the 2 together? I don't know...but is it worth the risk of having an evil twin abscess?

posted June 17, 2000 06:39 AM            

Jeff

posted June 18, 2000 01:36 PM         

Also, I can't see how stanazolol will dissolve to any appreciable extent in an oil vehicle. Although it is lipophilic, it is unesterified (if I remember correctly, please correct me if I am wrong), which reduces it's oil solubility, plus being a crystal suspension, it would require dissolving to cross over. I can see if it was a solution, then all the stanazolol had to do was move across.

I tried mixing tren acetate in plain oil and got shit, and it is esterified. I also, tried mixing norandrostenediol in oil and got the same result. I confered with Bill Roberts and he stated that he expected less than 20mg/ml solubility of either of these. Both required a more polar solvent (propylene glycol) to increase solubility, then a surfactant (polysorbate 80) to produce a miscible solution.