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 WINNY OR FINA?? WHAT'S BETTER FOR CUTTING?
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| Author | Topic: WINNY OR FINA?? WHAT'S BETTER FOR CUTTING? |
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MONSTROSITY Pro Bodybuilder (Total posts: 219) |
posted June 09, 2000 07:52 PM
   WHAT DO YOU GUYS THINK? HAS ANYONE USED BOTH? IP: Logged |
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Krusher Pro Bodybuilder (Total posts: 251) |
posted June 09, 2000 08:03 PM
The answer is winny AND fina IP: Logged |
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aahepp Amateur Bodybuilder (Total posts: 33) |
posted June 09, 2000 11:39 PM
both will do wonders for you. But here is the problem. If you whinny comes in tabs then your in trouble. Whinny tabs are very toxic to the liver and as you know fina is #1 on the list. Limit cycle to 6 weeks if doing both. If injectable whinny then 8 is fine if you have done juice before. Both will do about the same by themselves. Maybe a little better results from the fina. Fina raises body temp a degree or two when active, whinny doens't. There yuo go hope that helped. IP: Logged |
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glenbenton Pro Bodybuilder (Total posts: 342) |
posted June 10, 2000 12:49 AM
yo ahep is that why i feel like i have a goddamn fever IP: Logged |
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Zeke_B Amateur Bodybuilder (Total posts: 7) |
posted June 10, 2000 12:54 AM
Just curious. Why would Fina which is transdermal or injectible be so hard on the liver? I thought, in general, orals were harder on the liver. Also, how does Trenbelone Acetate (sp?) compare chemically to Test or Nandrolone? Is it a form of Test? I understand it is pretty anabolic. IP: Logged |
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aahepp Amateur Bodybuilder (Total posts: 33) |
posted June 10, 2000 08:11 AM
glen the fever thing is one of the affect of the fina. You get the symptoms of the ful. But they should go away after the first week. Now the fever effect (higher body temp) should be there until three days after your last application. Never really understood why it is so hard your your liver, I just know it doesn't like to process it. All studies have shown it to be one of the harsh on the liver. IP: Logged |
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Krusher Pro Bodybuilder (Total posts: 251) |
posted June 10, 2000 08:17 AM
I thought it's hard on the kidneys. IP: Logged |
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aahepp Amateur Bodybuilder (Total posts: 33) |
posted June 10, 2000 08:36 AM
Fina is hard on both organs. It is hard for bothe organs that need to move this substance around in your system. Thats why you need to drink plenty of water (3 gallons) and takw some Milk Thystle. I wont stop the effects but it will help some. A little preventive maintance has never hurt. IP: Logged |
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Krusher Pro Bodybuilder (Total posts: 251) |
posted June 10, 2000 08:44 AM
Ahhep, what's the appropriate length of time to stay on fina? What's long enough to see its full effects but not too long for the organs to be abused. My guess is 6 weeks is about right. IP: Logged |
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beastmasster Pro Bodybuilder (Total posts: 357) |
posted June 10, 2000 11:41 AM
Aheep, what studies have ever shown tren to be hard on the liver? Guys, Tren is just like any other drug and there is no reason to shorten cycles of it. IMO you could be on for as long as you are any other drug. But yes lots of water is good for fina use, which is why I just killed my 2nd gallon today already. IP: Logged |
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aahepp Amateur Bodybuilder (Total posts: 33) |
posted June 10, 2000 11:44 AM
6 weeks is a good cycle. Also depends on if you have done juice before. I do them for 8 weeks with the other juice. But after my cycle I do go get my body checked out by the Doc. He knows what I am on and knows waht to look for in the system. Somethign bout if your liver starts failing. When they do a blood test there will be certian toxins that are present. I don't what toxins but he does. Always when going to the doctor make sure he know what your on. Don't worry they won't turn you in. They might tell you not to. But sports medicine doctors are always good. IP: Logged |
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KANE Pro Bodybuilder (Total posts: 342) |
posted June 10, 2000 12:14 PM
Some of this info is just plain wrong. First off winnie is hard on your liver no matter whether you shoot it or take it orally,same drug. Second fina does not cause any problems with your liver. Third I believe that fina is not as hard on your kidneys as everybody thinks. Ive gone up to 150 eod and cut back my water just to see if my kidneys would take a beating. They didnt!!!!!! I did see increased aggresion and acne from the 75 eod mark so Ive settled at 100 eod. ------------------ IP: Logged |
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aahepp Amateur Bodybuilder (Total posts: 33) |
posted June 10, 2000 01:03 PM
Kane where did you get your info. Not wanting to start anything here but here you go. I have had my blood tested for many years now. You say TBA does nothing to your liver. Explain the 55% increase of toxins in my blood, while only on TBA. TBA has a nice little effects on your kidneys, by breaking down the tissue of them not building them up like your muscles. Whinny true is bad on your system no matter how you take it. I was stating that the tabs are harder. They have to be processed by your liver. A solution injected into your body does not go through that transport stage. Don't believe me go ask any sports medicine person or chemist and they will let you know. I favor insight from other BBs but I like to do my own research before I go injecting anything into my body. Also other tests was conducted while on diffrent AS. Guess what the toxin levels was the highest while just on TBA. Deca, D-bol, Sus, EQ, Whinny, are the things I have been tested on. Them are the only ones I use. I have doen the blood research on these here because I want to know what effects they are having on my body besides making me big. IP: Logged |
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matty Pro Bodybuilder (Total posts: 815) |
posted June 10, 2000 02:22 PM
aahepp! so your saying that Deca, D-bol, Sus, EQ, Whinny, are the ones that diddent raise your liver toxins??? or did ./... ------------------ IP: Logged |
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aahepp Amateur Bodybuilder (Total posts: 33) |
posted June 10, 2000 03:01 PM
they did raise the toxin levels in my blood but not as much as what the TBA did. Whinny came in a close second with D bol nexted, then Sus, and EQ and Deca was about the same. Also the diet did stay the same through these tests. And no other products was used either. Like I have said before I do not use Clomid. [This message has been edited by aahepp (edited June 10, 2000).] [This message has been edited by aahepp (edited June 10, 2000).] IP: Logged |
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NoviceJuicer Pro Bodybuilder (Total posts: 117) |
posted June 10, 2000 03:24 PM
On blood tests they are not looking at toxins but specific enzymes that elevate as they are produced by the liver to break down toxic substances (enzymes break chemical bonds). However I like it when you said they look for toxins, makes it much easier to understand. The main ones to look at are GGT, SGPT, SGOT. GGT is the most sensitive and should be 1-45. SGPT (ALT) should be 18-26. And SGOT (AST) should be 18-26 also. Keep in mind every lab makes up their own ranges of what is "normal" and so will vary some. WIth SGPT its not only a problem when the numbers go too high but also too low, as it indicates a fatty congested hypometabolic underactive sluggish liver (although most doctors carelessly only look at values that are too high because that is more common). SGPT is the most specific to the liver of SGOT and SGPT. BUN (blood urea nitrogen) is also a liver marker although most doctors are only familiar with it as a kidney marker. BUN is produced as protein is deaminized (amino acids broken off the larger protein molecule by using digestive enzymes) in the liver producing nitrogen. If it is too low it is a problem with the liver as the liver is not adequately breaking down protein. If it is too high it is a kidney problem, since the kidneys get rid of this waste product. THE BUN/creatinine ratio is also used to access kidney function if it gets too high. BUN should range from about 13-18. BUN/creatinine ratio should range from about 13-16. [note: creatinine is not creatine monohydrate). A low BUN will typically indicate liver deamination problems (problems splitting hte protein into amino acids) and will result in difficulty using protein to make muscle. Low creatinine (below . 7) can indicate reduced protein/muscle metabolism - won't build muscle easily regardless of roids. Alkaline phosphatase also can be a liver marker or a bone marker. If it is high (over 90) a doctor just has to determine is it more likley due to liver or a bone problem (fracture, bone cancer etc). THese are the typical basic blood tests done in this case. IP: Logged |
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