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 Who thinks that it's possible to lose fat and gain muscle at the same time?
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| Author | Topic: Who thinks that it's possible to lose fat and gain muscle at the same time? | ||
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Mutant   
Posts: 3362 |
You always hear people say it's impossible, and after hearing it a million times, I believed it. Then I read about this study a while back where they had two groups of several men who were on a weight training/cardio regimen do two different diets for eight weeks. These numbers may be off a bit, but it's the idea that I'm after. 1. 2 weeks at 1000 calories under maintenance per day, then 2 weeks at 1,000 calories over maintenance per day, and repeat. i.e. if maintenance calorie intake is 2500 per day, they would consume 1500 calories per day for two weeks, then consume 3500 per day for two weeks, etc.
i.e. if maintenance cal. intake is 2500 per day, they took in 3000 per day for the entire 8 weeks. ---------------------------------------- Group 2 gained an average of like 2 lbs of muscle and lost 4lbs of fat on average. Basically, Group 1 gained double the muscle and lost double the fat. This made me start thinking a little different, then it dawned on me that you don't have to do the same thing (lose fat/gain muscle) for 2 weeks at a time. I believe that it is impossible to lose fat and gain muscle at the same time...The key here is the same time. I do believe that you can lose fat at one time of the day (probably while active, doing cardio, etc.) and gain muscle at another time during the same day -for example, while you sleep. I'm not saying that this would really be more effective and I'm not saying that this would be easier. Actually I think it would probably be a little more difficult in terms of diet. Ok...I'm looking for other opinions here, so fire away if you disagree...just remember no name calling ------------------ Visit my website at http://profiles.elitefitness.com for up to date A.S. info. -------------------------     | ||
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Freak
Posts: 2276 |
yes i think its possible... but i tried that when i first started lifting and its SLOOOWW growth.. I know alot of guys who try to stay lean year round but try to build muscle at the same time... i see very little difference in them. I say bulk, then cut... its alot faster. | ||
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Elite Bodybuilder 
Posts: 990 |
I do it year round, for the most part. I'm always building, while keepin' the fat off. | ||
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Novice 
Posts: 10 |
bump! | ||
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Cool Novice 
Posts: 38 |
yea its possible..............try the Dan Duchaine 5day no carbs and 2 day high carbs diet while on roids. if done right ur body weight will go up while ur loosing fat.my trainin partner done this, in 8 weeks he went from 12 1/2 stone to 13 stone with less fat. not bad for a cutting cycle!! | ||
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Olympian 
Posts: 1647 |
Really they arn't gaining muscle and loosing fat at the same time. They are yo-yo dieting, just as bodybuilders do, just in much shorter stints. Two weeks hypocaloric(dieting) two weeks hypercaloric(tissue building). We all essentially do this. We however do each phase for longer periods of time. For most of us it's eight to twelve weeks hypercaloric(bulking) and eight to twelve weeks hypocaloric(cutting). This essentially proves our methods...The study just used short intervals of each phase. If they were to gain lean body mass while simultaineously loose body fat concurrently with the same diet...then that would be a different story and probably a physiological breakthrough. This is similar to the ABC diet approach. I think these approaches work and have thier place but I DON'T believe they are conducive for optimal mass gains. The mens health model would benifit much more from this method then the guy seeking to make jaws drop as a result of his overwhelming mass. I don't think you can loose bodyfat and make significant muscle progress concurrntly. I just don't think it will get very far either for gaining muscle or loosing body fat. I have tried it and that is the conclusion I have come to. If you want mass you have to sacrifice leanness. If you want leanness you must sacrifice mass. | ||
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Amateur Bodybuilder 
Posts: 206 |
I beleive it can be done. Think about it, Muscle burns fat The act of creating muscle (workouts) burns fat Protein burns more calories than carbs or fat when being digested Taking advantage of these facts is only a matter of stratedgy. Whats the goal? Build lean muscle. How do I do it? Consume large quantities of protein and minimum fat/carb calories, and increase training volume. Whats the outcome? More muscle which simultanously burns more fat and increased metabolism. Just my theory... ------------------ | ||
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Mutant
Posts: 3362 |
quote: So I'm not crazy...This is exactly what I was saying, but in different words. | ||
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Mutant
Posts: 3362 |
quote:
------------------ Visit my website at http://profiles.elitefitness.com for up to date A.S. info. ------------------------- | ||
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Amateur Bodybuilder
Posts: 138 |
I did a 10 week cycle of Sus250 at 500mgs a week last year. My weight is 175 , BF 9% and Im 5'10" I only consumed 2500 cals a day thats with food and shakes. Before I did this cycle I was 153 with 14% bodyfat. During this cycle I got 2500 cals and worked out back/bi's, chest/tri's, legs,cardio.. also I was doing the cardio first thing in the morning and doing this 3 times a week for one hour... I went from 153 with 14% bodyfat to 172 with 9%, so did it..... IT IS POSSIBLE..... since then I have gained another 3 pounds and stayed at the same bodyfat. | ||
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Amateur Bodybuilder
Posts: 171 |
Impressive Chris...I believe it can be done if one has the right body type. | ||
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Mutant
Posts: 3362 |
quote:
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Amateur Bodybuilder
Posts: 66 |
It is possibly witout steroids and definilitely with steroids. When i started i was eatinng 2000 calories per day and i did aerobics 4 times per week. Results were good after 3 weeks, my biceps groved 1cm and my waist decreased 3 cm. ------------------ | ||
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Pro Bodybuilder 
Posts: 391 |
You can drop body fat% while on a bulking cycle. Example bw 200 with 30lbs of fat or 15% bf. Now two months later bodyweight is up to 220 the same amount of fat now is down to 13%. I know its only 2%/8weeks but in a years time what would be the best method: to have a constant muscle building or the yo-yo method? I myself like the slow even process. . | ||
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Novice
Posts: 6 |
where can i find yo-yo program ? also what do you guys eat (cals)to build muscles and loss fat at the same time? | ||
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Freak
Posts: 2705 |
It is possible. Why does everyone think black or white, cut or bulk. I just finished a 10 week cycle of 500mg or ara and 200mg of eq and deca. I took t3 at 25mcg starting at week 5 to the end. I did cardio 3 times per week all the way through. I took 20mg of nolvadex for bloat and estrogen related fat deposits for 3 weeks and lowered to 10mg foe 4 more. I started at 233 at 21% bf So I gained muscle and lost fat at the same time. ------------------ *** Dont email me asking for a source!!!!! *** "Catch a man a fish and he eats for a day, but if you teach a man to fish, he eats for a lifetime." | ||
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Pro Bodybuilder
Posts: 352 |
That study was probably designed to test out the ABCDE (Anabolic Burst Cycling of Diet and Exercise) system... the brain-child of Swedish researcher, Torbjorn Akerfelt. There was an extensive article about it, along with an interview with Dr. Akerfelt, in Muscle Media 2000 about 3 years ago. I have a decent background in Biochemistry and Physiology, and the program makes perfect sense, from a scientific point of view. I'll try to recap the MM2K article's explanation. The premise behind cycling caloric intake is to take advantage of the body's innate ability to adjust it's own functions in response to environmentaly imposed changes, with the goal being to restore homeostasis. As you "bulk" with an excess of calories and intense weight training, your body will quickly pack on the muscle. However, after some time (1-2 weeks), your body will "realize" that if it puts on too much muscle and increases the BMR to high, you will be the first person to die from starvation come the next famine. What's that? No famines where you are? Well there were famines 2 million years ago, and your body, from an evolutionary standpoint, hasn't changed much since then. It will downregulate key muscle building hormones and enzymes and redirect calories toward building fat, which is inherently less biologically active, with the purpose of keeping your BMR down, and preparing you if a possible period of prolonged starvation should strike. This is the point where you cut calories, to prevent these biochemical phenomena from occuring. At low calories along with cardio and MAINTAINENCE lifting, you will once again cause an enzamatic shift in the internal mileu, turning your body into a fat burning, muscle maintaining machine. Now, all this sounds wonderful, but (in my humble opinion), there is one catch. We are not robots with automaton-like discipline... we're human, and things don't always go like we plan. I tried this ABCDE system, and the bulking time was great... ate a lot, worked out like crazy, and I just blew up! Then came the low-cal phase. Beleive me when I tell you that it's much harder than what you might think. If you can do it, great, more power to you. But I can't, and I'd venture to say that the vast majority of us couldn't. You end up bulking, then maintaining for a couple weeks, and then bulking again, and before you know it, you're fat as hell. So, what it comes down to is that this program looks great on paper and in studies... makes perfect sense... is totally logical and scientific... BUT it just doesn't work all that well in real life. Just one man's opinion... ------------------ | ||
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Moderator
Posts: 1387 |
It' IS possible. No question. ------------------ | ||
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Mutant
Posts: 3362 |
quote: Well that sums that up. You know, cuz if cubano says so....  | ||
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Olympian
Posts: 1647 |
One important point that needs to be made is that body fat% can drop without the actual loss of fat. Bodyfat is a ratio of bodyfat to lean body mass in regards to overall bodyweight. As body weight and lean body mass increase the ratio of fat to lean body mass becomes proportianately different. The amount of fat is still the same however the ratio of fat to LBM has changed thus bodyfat % has changed. As LBM increases weight will increase. This further differentiates the ratio of fat/LBM. Less of your body weight is body fat but you could still have the same amount of body fat. It is just less representitive of ooverall body weight. [This message has been edited by Beezers (edited April 25, 2001).] | ||
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Elite Bodybuilder
Posts: 1467 |
AJC, its 100% possible bro! It happened to me last bulking cycle and with the current one I am on now. I put on about 30lbs in the last week of quality muscle (on nolva so no water) and am getting cut as hell losing a majority of my bf. And keep in mind this is with d-bol 30mg and omna at 750mg. Also on my last Anadrol/sus cycle I put on a ton of size and was even more cut then. It depends on the person and genetics I am sure, but it is totaly possible! Mass Monster | ||
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Mutant
Posts: 3362 |
quote: That is true, but I meant actually losing fat and gaining muscle. In reality, if your bodyfat is over 10% and you gain 1 lb. of fat and 9lbs. of muscle, your bodyfat % would go down. ------------------ Visit my website at http://profiles.elitefitness.com for all kinds of A.S. info. Don't forget to click on "Most Popular" for info on the latest products like Ttokkyo's winny, etc. ------------------------- | ||
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Olympian
Posts: 1781 |
its is and "THATS THE BOTTOM LINE"!!!!!why?well let me tell you why cuz "ultragainz"said so....=)...no really its is possible.... ------------------ | ||
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Guru   
Posts: 5286 |
It's possible, but it's not effecient. It is easier to devote all of your hard work and time to either gaining muscle or losing fat, but attempting to do them at the same time just slows down the process. ...asking which one is healthier is whole other question... ------------------
[email protected] | ||
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Mutant
Posts: 3362 |
quote: What is "healthy"? Anyone around here know what that means? LOL Yeah...true, but I don't think it's as hard as it sounds when you do plenty of cardio. | ||
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Pro Bodybuilder
Posts: 426 |
It is possible. I did fina+winny and started at 180 14% bf, then ended at 175 10% bf | ||
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Cool Novice
Posts: 31 |
AJC: do you know if the training programs were kept the same throughout the whole study???? | ||
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Elite Bodybuilder
Posts: 1383 |
i am doing it right now as we speak! NO weight gain at 1GRAM of test and 400mgs of deca with anadrol, NO WEIGHT GAIN. buti've lost 3" in my waist and gained 1.5" on my arms.. i'm also seeing my abs now  ------------------ | ||
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Cool Novice
Posts: 43 |
I'm from the school that you should bulk and then cut. You won't get the most bang for your buck on juice if you are limiting your calories. You should do a cycle like test/dbol first and then do something like primo/winny on your next cycle to try to bring the fat off. Good luck bro. ------------------ | ||
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Elite Bodybuilder
Posts: 755 |
i think it is possible in the following conditions: -people who restart training after a long layoff -beginners -anabolics users I belive in the last opiton , if someone chooses to go this way, they won't get the most from mulcle gains. ------------------ | ||
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Pro Bodybuilder
Posts: 344 |
I think it is possible (on roids anyway). On my first cycle I gain 10 lbs LBM and lost a few percent BF. Therefore I personally believe it is possible, especially with chemical help! Jay |
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posted April 25, 2001 12:02 PM
