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 This Question Is For Fonz & All Gurus On DNP !
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| Author | Topic: This Question Is For Fonz & All Gurus On DNP ! | ||
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Amateur Bodybuilder 
Posts: 89 |
I'm comming down off of T-3 and I'm currently at 3 tabs/day. I will be dropping it to two tabs/day in 3 days and down one tab/day every 5 days until i'm completely off. I would like to start my DNP cycle asap so my question is would you reccommend that I wait until I get down to 1 tab/day before starting the DNP? I've heard that DNP with T-3 is extremely catabolic on muscle tissue and I don't want to jeopardize my gains. I've heard one tab/day with DNP isn't too bad on muscle catabolism especially if you're taking some good cutting gear for preservation. I'm currently on prop., primo depot,anavar, and winny. Do you think this will be sufficient enough to counter the effects of the DNP with 1 tab/day T-3 or would you just wait until completely off of T-3 altogether. Thanks Fonz and anyother knowledgeable people for your help. Thanks Munzer     | ||
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Amateur Bodybuilder
Posts: 103 |
Let your Thyroid normalize before hitting the DNP. The DNP will have a negative impact on your Thyroid, and that is not what you want to do coming off T3. [This message has been edited by SHREADER (edited April 22, 2001).] | ||
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Amateur Bodybuilder
Posts: 99 |
If he let's his thyroid "normalize" before hitting his DNP cycle then he could be waiting for weeks, possibly months. Switched | ||
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Amateur Bodybuilder
Posts: 103 |
So Switched no flame but what are you trying to tell the bro. Go ahead and hit the DNP and further challenge his Thyroid that is already taxed from the T3. So he can have a permanently deficient Thyroid and need medication for the rest of his life. Thats some reckless behaviour you may want to keep to yourself for yourself. Give it 3 to 4 weeks before hitting the DNP bro (8 days on 10-12 days off) and stay away from the T3. You will be pleased with the results from the DNP. Think about your longterm health first. Your Thyroid is not something you want to play around with. SHREADER | ||
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Amateur Bodybuilder
Posts: 245 |
depends on how suppressed your tsh levels are right now it may be best for you to wait up to a month to hit the dnp if you want to get the best effects of dnp. dnp + t3 is not any more catabolic than t3 by itself. dnp does not directly catabolize muscle tissue like t3 would, but the calorie deficit that dnp puts your body in creates a catabolic environment. | ||
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Olympian 
Posts: 1727 |
quote: Well said. DNP is only catabolic to fat. I would however let my thyroid normalize as T4-T3 conversion in the liver is impaired by the excessive heat from the DNP. And can I also say: THERE IS NOT ONE SINGLE STUDY THAT I HAVE FOUND THAT SHOWS THAT A PERSON SCREWED UP HIS THYROID FOR LIFE. This stemmed from a bet Warlobo made, where he said he'd pay $100 to anyone who could find a study where Thyroid function was impaired forever due to exogeneous T3 use. Godspeed | ||
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Amateur Bodybuilder
Posts: 245 |
to add to what fonz said: people with fibromyalgia, (pain in the muscles/connective tissue) often take t3. they have NORMAL tsh levels, but take t3 to help this pain. it is not uncommon for them to be on t3 at 400mcg/day for years. once this pain becomes manageable and they come off of t3 therapy their tsh levels eventually normalize after a few months. | ||
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Amateur Bodybuilder
Posts: 99 |
Well Shreader there is an excellent thread created by Cuts that covers why there might be an advantage to using T3 while on a cycle of DNP. DNP by itself is going to suppress natural T4 conversion to T3, thus supplementing with T3 while on DNP will cover this drop. I believe Fonz said using somewhere in the area of 25mcg cytomel per day while on DNP would be ideal. T3 by itself is very catabolic- we all know this but as Guru pointed out T3+DNP is no more catabolic than T3 by itself. Since Munzer is on the tail end of tapering down off of T3 I think it would be a good time to do the DNP since his nat T3 levels are still suppressed anyways. The DNP isn't DIRECTLY suppressing T3 levels like cytomel is- as Fonz pointed out it's indirectly suppressing T3 because of heat production, not because there is an excess of synthetic thyroid hormone. Yes, they both cause a drop in T3 but for different reasons and your body knows this. Now, if DNP has such a negative impact on T3 production and it's safe pracice to wait 3-4 MONTHS between using cytomel to keep your thyroid from getting "screwed up" then why hit the DNP one short month after stopping the Cytomel? Basically from what I understand you're saying Shreader DNP and cytomel are comparable when it comes to the damage and havoc they'll cause on your thyroid function and by combining the two it makes this damage twice as bad. I disagree and no I'm not telling Munzer to screw up his thyroid for life, just sharing some information and knowledge I learned in a previous post where Fonz and a few others shed a different light on the subject. As for me, when I do my first DNP cycle I will be supplementing with cytomel at 25mcg/day for a whole week- hopefully I won't end up on Synthroid for the rest of my life using this cycle. BTW, no flame taken. Switched | ||
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Amateur Bodybuilder
Posts: 245 |
switched.. i'd suggest taking t3 starting the second half of your dnp cycle. no need to take it at the beginning when t4 to t3 hasn't been supressed yet. if there's any evidence of screwing up the thyroid for life and ending up on synthroid (t4) for life from t3 overuse then i think it's a medical anomoly. i still have yet to find any credible literature to support this. too much muscle catabolism is a much more realistic concern from t3 overuse. | ||
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Amateur Bodybuilder
Posts: 99 |
I agree Guru, was just tossing in a little sarcasm at the end of my post  Switched | ||
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Amateur Bodybuilder
Posts: 245 |
duh... i'm sloww...  | ||
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Amateur Bodybuilder
Posts: 99 |
Guru, another question for ya. You suggested I should wait till the second half of my DNP cycle before hitting the T3. That makes sense but I'm hoping to be in moderate ketosis by the time I start the DNP. Since ketosis also slows metabolism and suppresses T3 production does your advice still apply? Thanks bro Switched | ||
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Pro Bodybuilder 
Posts: 323 |
Well, first of all, you don't need to be in mild ketosis when starting dnp, actually i'd advice against it. Regarding the t3 levels, you can provoce your body to increase natural thyroid hormone secretion by diet alone. and in this way decrease the time some, instead of waiting months to get back to normal. BUT, if you know how to diet, I would think it shouldn't be a problem for you to start dnp as soon as you're done with the t3. This just means that y�u should pay extra attention to clean/strict dieting some time after stopping dnp usage. The thyroid shutdown, is a battle of oppinions that has been going on for years now. Before warlobo, i think it was raver, or some other guy that made out a reward as well - wich by the way, no one ever claimed. I suggest you get your hands on the d the n and the p on your keyboard, do searches, and you'll actually find some very good posts around. Try and see if you can get animals dnp report as well. And last, listen to what the brothers are saying, but just remember that in the end, you need to listen to yourselfe, because all bodys are different. Take care, MIKE H / VIKING OF THE NORTH. | ||
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Mutant   
Posts: 3434 |
quote: | ||
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Amateur Bodybuilder
Posts: 103 |
Ok Switched now you've done it you interrupted my breakfast. You Said Who the hell are you talking to? I never commented on the catabolic issue. I did not comment on the catabolic issue because Munzer is on a solid AS cycle that will more than compensate for any catabolism from the T3 OR the indirect catabolic state induced by the DNP from caloric deficiency. DNP GURU "dnp does not DIRECTLY catabolize muscle tissue like t3 would, BUT the caloric deficit that dnp puts your body in creates a CATABOLIC ENVIRONMENT." You Said You are kidding I hope. You have admitted that his T3 levels are suppressed from the liothyronine sodium intake, so you are going to further lower his indigenous T3 by throwing DNP into the mix and hindering T4 to T3 conversion. That will also throw off his very methodical tapering strategy. Bad idea! FONZ "I would however let my thyroid normalize as T4 to T3 conversion in the liver is impaired by the excessive heat from dnp." You Said What the hell? First of all I never said DNP "has such a negative impact on t3 production. I said it would further challenge his situation. AND YOU just got through answering this one yourself in your post. The pathways of suppresion are totally different. Even if Munzers Thyroid was still not optimal after one month (unlikely) the recovery would not be hindered significantly AT THAT POINT (one month down range) by a resonable 7 to 10 day regimen of DNP. Now if a very shallow pyramid of T3 intake is followed as Munzer has done, his thyroid will normalize nicely if LEFT ALONE. One month after similar cycles my thyroid values have been well into the expected range. You Said Now that you have insulted me with numerous exagerations I must thrash you. Two of my colleagues and I have been researching, testing, and using DNP for over 3 years. I have over 17 DNP cycles under my belt. I have experimented with most every conceivable intake strategy. High doses, low doses, long cycles, short cycles, with T3, without T3, with AS, without AS, 6 different diet strategys including Ketogenic, with Clen, with ECA, 5 different trining protocols etc...We endured much pain during many of those test cycles and put our health at risk even though we were monitored closely. | ||
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Amateur Bodybuilder
Posts: 245 |
damn baby! somebody just got pissed! just relax bro, no one is trying to flame you intentionally. switched: i still say wait till your second half of the cycle because chances are your ketogenic diet will not suppress the thyroid all the much, nothing like exogenous t3 or dnp. having said that, i don't believe ketogenic diets are the way to go when on dnp. i've tried it and it sucked. very hypoglycemic. dnp has a way of transporting glucose into the cells from the blood without insuline, causing blood glucose levels to drop beyond normal. at less than 4mg/kg-bw you probably won't be severely hypoglycemic, but more than that you probably will. | ||
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Pro Bodybuilder
Posts: 329 |
I'm still relatively new to the board, so I could be wrong, but I thought I remembered reading something about a "Mrs. Texas Guns" who was rendered hypothyroid after prolonged exogenous T3 intake. If I'm wrong I'm about this, I apoligize. Not trying to start any rumors; just somehthing that stuck out to me... ------------------ | ||
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Amateur Bodybuilder
Posts: 89 |
Thanks Fonz,DNP guru,Shreader and everyone for your input and knowledge . I'm very greatfull for help cause I just wanted to drop from 7% currently down to 5% but i'm not getting ready for a show or anything just for summer so I have plenty of time . I just wanted to lean out a little bit more but not at the expense of losing too much muscle or stressing my thyroid to much. I will put all of your information to good use Thanks Again Bros ,Munzer |
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posted April 22, 2001 06:51 PM