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 Anabolic Discussion Board
 ARIMIDEX DOESN'T WORK GOOD!! SEE STUDY
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| Author | Topic: ARIMIDEX DOESN'T WORK GOOD!! SEE STUDY | ||
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Cool Novice 
Posts: 26 |
Look at this study form pubmed that shows 1mg per day only inhibits estradiol production in normal men by 50 percent. Now imagine how good 1mg is in men taking 5-20 times as much testosteone as is normal. You have to read through to see what I am saying. "We have shown that testosterone (T) deficiency per se is associated with marked catabolic effects on protein, calcium metabolism, and body composition in men independent of changes in GH or insulin-like growth factor I production. It is not clear,,however, whether estrogens have a major role in whole body anabolism in males. We investigated the metabolic effects of selective estrogen suppression in the male using a potent aromatase inhibitor, Arimidex (Anastrozole). First, a dose-response study of 12 males (mean age, 16.1 +/- 0.3 yr) was conducted, and blood withdrawn at baseline and after 10 days of oral Arimidex given as two different doses (either 0.5 or 1 mg) in random order with a 14-day washout in between. A sensitive estradiol (E2) assay showed an approximately 50% decrease in E2 concentrations with either of the two doses; hence, a 1-mg dose was selected for other studies"     | ||
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Cool Novice
Posts: 28 |
That seems legit. Could you post were you got the study from? If that true, it worries me. Should we take other anti-ests, along with armitdex, to combat gyno? | ||
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Cool Novice
Posts: 26 |
Here is another sutdy with 10 pills a day. AGain you havce to read through some stuff to see. IT seems that in nomral men not taking anything that arimidex is only capable of cutting estradiol in half. Twelve NL men underwent medical castration with ketoconazole (1-g loading dose followed by 400 mg, orally, four times a day for 5 days). Ketoconazole-treated subjects received concomitant treatment with dexamethasone (0.5 mg twice daily) to prevent the development of adrenal insufficiency. Single blood samples were drawn daily between 0800-1000 h. To ensure that dexamethasone was not altering the gonadotropin response to sex steroid ablation by a direct pituitary effect, five GnRH-deficient men (mean age, 37.6 +/- 3.9 yr) underwent GnRH dose-response studies at baseline and after treatment with dexamethasone (0.5 mg twice daily). Aromatase blockade caused significant lowering of E(2) (33 +/- 3 to 14 +/- 1 pg/mL; P: < 0.0005) Even if it at best, when taking extra aromatizeable AAS, ARIMIDEX cuts estradiol production in half, you will still get prety hefty estradiol levels. Say 100mg produces a core pf 40pg/ml, then 1gram will produce 400pg/ml and arimdex will cut that only to 200pg/ml which is way high for men who should only have 10-60pg/ml. | ||
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Amateur Bodybuilder 
Posts: 116 |
I don't know where that study came from but I am take 1gram sust a week and 40mg dbol with a lot of other shit and get almost no water gain just strong and big as hell | ||
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Amateur Bodybuilder
Posts: 116 |
I forgot to add I am only taking 1mg a day of arimidex | ||
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Cool Novice
Posts: 26 |
rich, do you ever get itchiness in your nipples? I took a gram of te and 1mg a day of arimidex and still got itchy nipples. | ||
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Cool Novice
Posts: 26 |
That is I took a gram of testosterone enanthate a week and 1mg a day of arimidex and still got itchy nipples. | ||
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Elite Bodybuilder 
Posts: 1465 |
I was on a gram of test and only taking a quarter tab a day, and had absolutely no water retention. The stuff does do something. | ||
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Cool Novice
Posts: 26 |
What about itchy nipples? | ||
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Elite Bodybuilder
Posts: 1221 |
No itchy nipples here..nor water retention, the stuff definately works..I did 1g of sust/wk, 40mgs d-bol daily plus 500mgs deca. From past experience, I would have had gyno symptoms with those doses if I didn't use arimidex. | ||
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Cool Novice
Posts: 26 |
well all I now is trhat I see these studies and that when I bumped up my dosage from 500mg per week to 1000mg per week of test I started getting itchy nipples for that whole week the tissue there got very puffy. I was taking 2mgs perday and the problem was still there. IT just doesn;t maek sens to me how this stuff could work so well. If 100mg per week equals about 150mg of testosterone per day, then how is 1 little mg of arimidex going ot compete witha ll that stuff in order to make it to the aroatase enzyme? | ||
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Cool Novice
Posts: 26 |
quote:
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Amateur Bodybuilder
Posts: 144 |
that study does not make any sense why would they test arimidex on the effects of test and estrogen on men when i thought it was made for women with cancer | ||
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Amateur Bodybuilder
Posts: 95 |
The study based effects in the PDR: In women 1mg pd reduced estradiol by approximately 70% within 24 hours and by approximately 80% after 14 days of daily dosing. The 50% decrease in E2 at 1mg in men is still significant and will have a profound effect on reducing the potential for Gyno and the severity of the incidence. Secondly E2 is an important component for the muscle building environment we are trying to achieve. Complete removal of estradiol is not what we are trying to do, and would be counter productive and limit gains. I believe the precentage reduction of E2 based on a study of athletes administering high doses of exogenous T would be much higher. My thoughts are that Arimidex should be the first choice (if cost allows) for minimizing the effects of aromatization, and Nolvadex used as an adjunct with Arimidex if the need arises. Just my thoughts, scutinize as needed. [This message has been edited by SHREADER (edited April 21, 2001).] | ||
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Amateur Bodybuilder
Posts: 71 |
FUCK THE STUDIES BRO, EVEN ON MY HEAVIEST CYCLE (1g OMNA PER WEEK)I WAS USING 1/2 EOD AND I DIDN'T HAVE ANY ITCHY NIPPLES AND THE I KEPT THE WATER RETENTION MINIMAL..SO I KNOW THAT THIS SHIT DOES WONDERS FOR ME FOR SURE... | ||
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Elite Bodybuilder
Posts: 668 |
"Here is another sutdy with 10 pills a day. AGain you havce to read through some stuff to see. IT seems that in nomral men not taking anything that arimidex is only capable of cutting estradiol in half." "Twelve NL men underwent medical castration with ketoconazole (1-g loading dose followed by 400 mg, orally, four times a day for 5 days). Ketoconazole-treated subjects received concomitant treatment with dexamethasone (0.5 mg twice daily) to prevent the development of adrenal insufficiency. Single blood samples were drawn daily between 0800-1000 h. To ensure that dexamethasone was not altering the gonadotropin response to sex steroid ablation by a direct pituitary effect, five GnRH-deficient men (mean age, 37.6 +/- 3.9 yr) underwent GnRH dose-response studies at baseline and after treatment with dexamethasone (0.5 mg twice daily). Aromatase blockade caused significant lowering of E(2) (33 +/- 3 to 14 +/- 1 pg/mL; P: < 0.0005)" Ummm...HORNEY, could you please tell me where this quote cites Arimidex (anastrazole)? I see the antifungal, ketoconazole (Nizoral), but not anastrazole. | ||
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Novice 
Posts: 4 |
There are two sources of estrogen in men; conversion of testosterone via aromatase (which Arimidex kills) and DHEA to estrogen. DHEA can go to either testosterone or estrogen, whichever is lower. I had lab tests done. Estradiol was at 91 while taking 25 mg/day DHEA and 1/2 mg/day Arimidex. Just cutting out the DHEA dropped the estradiol to 46. Since we all produce DHEA naturally, it can be converting to estradiol and this has nothing to do with aromatase. | ||
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Elite Bodybuilder
Posts: 668 |
TEXAS, DHEA is converted to estrogen through aromatase. Also, it can activate the ER directly. Your alteration in estrogen levels is most likely due to incomplete aromatase inhibition. Studies have shown only around 50% inhibition of aromatase, in men, with 1mg of anastrazole, so when you added DHEA in your body, you gave more precursor to the un-inhibited aromatase to convert to estradiol. | ||
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Novice
Posts: 10 |
Bottom line is that I think that arimidex is way overrated. I think there is this thing where everyone just keeps on talking about what a miracle it is so that, when it comes to personal experience, no matter how much it works or doesn't work people are just going to believe it is the best stuff on earth because thats all that they have heard. These dosages of 1/4 eod are stupid! 1mg a day is used to inhibit estrogen production in little postmenopausal women who only make a smidgeon of estrogen anyways. THat's right it takes a full 1mg a day to inhibit the production of estradiol in postmenopasual women from the andro precursors made by the adrenals. Now guys got it in their head that 1/8 of this is going to inhibit the production of estradiol from 1000mg of test. THat just doesn;t add up. Bottom line is that if you are prone to gyno and u use over about 500mg a week of test than arimidex is not going to solve your problems 100 percent. It will make things much better than if you had not used anything, but you will still get a little bit of puffy nips and some itchiness and some possible worsening of any preexisting gyno conditions. Maybea it would be good if you could use like 20mg a day or somehting but no one can afford that at the current prices. If you are prone to gyno, I think you are best to use a combination of 1mg arimidex a day plus nolva and don't take test dosages over 500mg per week. | ||
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Novice
Posts: 10 |
quote:
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Novice
Posts: 10 |
quote: I agree that we don;t want to completely remove estradiol, just prevent it from going into the supraphysiological range. In other words we want it to stayt under 66pg/dl which is the highest physiological amount that any lab assay uses. Now as for the idea that E2 is an important comoponent of the muscle building environment that you are trying to achieve- all I have to say to that is that testosterone is an important component of the muscle building environment that femal bodybuildes are trying to achieve. I personally don't like the visual effects that these particualr components of the muscle buidling environment produce. | ||
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Amateur Bodybuilder
Posts: 95 |
Jered Bro it appears you "tried" to disagree with me but ended up in a round about way agreeing with me and even rewriting some of the same things I wrote in a different way. Namely the recomendation to use Arimidex with Nolvadex(if needed) which was the culmination of my thoughts on the subject. #1 Your response to my addition of the PDR Study Based Results. That information was added solely for the concideration of other readers. I made no extrapolation from those facts what so ever. I made no inferences to its impact in relation to use in men. I am well schooled in the pharmacology of Anastrozole in women. #2 Lets talk about your assertion that 20mg pd of Anastrozole would be needed to be effective in AS using patients to keep E in check. Even the Pubmed abstract verified that 1mg was no more effective than 0.5mg, and both equated to an approximate 50% reduction in E2. So if doubling the dosage from .5mg to 1mg was ineffective at further reducing E why would you think that increasing the dosage 20X would be beneficial. The bottom line is that it wont because the scope of aromatase activity is very limited ("the pool is shallow"). #3 Why would anyone think that a compound is overrated that can reduce aromatase activity so profoundly that it reduces E2 by 50% at ONLY 0.5mg! pd.. Do you know of another drug with that kind of efficacy for aromatase inhibition. Thank you Astra/Zenica for this great drug. |
All times are ET (US) | |
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posted April 20, 2001 09:32 PM