Huck, what do you think? I thought I read somewhere that you prefer to take clomid AFTER cycles. Personally, I take it throughout and after just to be safe. I wish I knew for sure if I could just wait till after my cycles to take it. I don't like taking Clomid at all, mostly due to the acne I think I'm getting from it.

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Bottom line is: If u got it, use is!

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During cycle:

PROS: NONE
CONS: Immunity to the substance, acne, side

After cycle:

PROS: Wow, I have balls after all
CONS: Not much you can do about them!

I had more conversations and debates about this issue. It truely is a fruitless endeavor to use clomiphene any longer than needed. It does absolutely nothing to restore hypophysis function. This restoration process wont take place as long elevated free and bound androgen levels remain within the athlete's system

PEACE

quote:

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Originally posted by Big Brother Val:
I use it throughout because I'm prone to gyno... it keeps it at bay.
That's it.

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Well hearing all of the reasons not to take it during, why not use nolvadex or proviron. I dont get acne from those two.

And to the one above who has evidence of long term clomid use, please enlighten us.
What would be the reason for studies on long term clomid use?

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"That which does not kill me, will make me stronger."

*** Dont email me asking for a source!!!!! ***

Week******Sust*****EQ******Dbol
1*********500******300******5
2*********500******300******5
3*********500******300******5
4*********500******300******5
5*********500******300******4
6*********500******300
7*********500******300
8*********500******300

Will run the EQ 10 weeks, provided that my Ultra isn't underfilled. Arimidex 1/4 tab EOD throughout.

How long after the cycle would you wait to start the Clomid? I was thinking 2weeks, since the sust will still be active. Running it the usual 100mg for a week and 50mg for 2 weeks. If I do run the EQ for 10 weeks, I will only wait a week after my last shot.

Since we want to reduce estrogen activity during cycle (notably in breast tissue) Clomid is an effective anti-estro. As for its effects on increasing test production, since during cycle the hypothalamus is getting so much inhibitory signaling from all the test running around, clomid during cycle probably won't have an effect on test production, but I could be wrong on that.

As for long term use, clomid has apparently been used without problem for a year in some studies.

Bottom Line: only purpose of clomid during cycle is as an anti-estro.

Some women can't get pregnant because they don't secrete enough LH and FSH at the right time during the cycle and, as a result, they don't ovulate. For these women, the first drug doctors often prescribe is clomiphene citrate (Clomid, Serophene). This synthetic drug stimulates the hypothalamus to release more GnRH, which then prompts the pituitary to release more LH and FSH, and thus increases the stimulation of the ovary to begin to produce a mature egg.
Structurally like estrogen, clomiphene binds to the sites in the brain where estrogen normally attaches, called estrogen receptors. Once these receptor sites are filled up with clomiphene, they can't bind with natural estrogen circulating in the blood and they are fooled into thinking that the amount of estrogen in the blood is too low. In response, the hypothalamus releases more GnRH, causing the pituitary to pump out more FSH, which then causes a follicle to grow to produce more estrogen and start maturing an egg to prepare for ovulation. Typically, a woman taking clomiphene produces double or triple the amount of estrogen in that cycle compared to pretreatment cycles.
Clomiphene is a very safe medication with relatively few contraindications. Preexisting liver disease is one contraindication since clomiphene is metabolized by the liver.

THERE IS A FEEDBACK LOOP THAT PRODUCES BOTH TESTOSTERONE AND SEMEN. SEMEN I BELIEVE IS MADE IN THE SERTOLI CELLS OF THE TESTES, TESTOSTERONE IN THE LEYDIG CELLS.

BOTH ARE PRODUCED UPON STIMULATION OF THE SO-CALLED FSH AND LH.

FSH - FOLLICLE STIMULATING HORMONE
LH - LUTENIZING HORMONE

CLOMID STIMULATES THE PRODUCTION OF FSH AND LH WHICH IN TURN GENERATES MORE TESTOSTERONE AND SEMEN PRODUCTION IN MEN. (IN WOMEN IT STIMULATES THE PRODUCTION OF EGGS THUS CLOMID'S PRIMARY USE AS A FERTILITY DRUG.)

AS WE AGE WE PRODUCE LESS TESTOSTERONE. SOME ADVOCATE A TESTOSTERONE PATCH ETC AS A REMEDY. I PREFER THE PRECURSOR ROUTE USING THE CLOMID.

I BELIEVE THIS IS PREFERABLE TO THE UNFETTERED INTRODUCTION OF TESTOSTERONE INTO YOUR SYSTEM AS THAT CAN TRIGGER THE NEGATIVE FEEDBACK LOOP WHICH WILL SHUT OFF YOUR OWN NATURAL TESTOSTERONE PRODUCTION.

THIS HAPPENS WHEN YOUR BODY SENSES THERE IS TOO MUCH TESTOSTERONE FLOATING AROUND IN THE BLOODSTREAM. USING A PRECURSOR SUCH AS CLOMID IS FAR LESS LIKELY TO TRIP THE SWITCH WHICH SHUTS OFF TESTOSTERONE.

HCG is best used during a long cycle as a means of stimulating natural Testosterone production, rather than at the end of a cycle. The reason for this is that the surge of T from HCG will trigger more negative feedback, which is exactly what you don't want at the end of a cycle when you should be trying to coax natural T production to come back online.

Clomiphene Citrate (Clomid) is more effective than HCG at the end of a cycle. It blocks estrogens at the hypothalamus. This reduces the negative feedback from high estrogen levels and allows for a resumption of natural T production. Clomid will not block the feedback that results from high androgen levels but androgen based feedback dominates only when T levels are very high, such as during a cycle when HCG is the better choice.

-Stew

Clomid
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Clomid is not an anabolic/androgenic steroid. Since it is a synthetic estrogen it belongs, however, to the group of sex.hormones. In school medicine Clomid is normally used to trigger ovulation. Those who cannot make much of this should read the package insert of Merrell Dow Pharma GmbH Company enclosed with the compound. Under "application" one reads the following: "To trigger the release of an ovum (ovulation) in women who want children and have certain ovary malfunctions..." Some might ask now what such a compound is doing in the drug arsenal of athletes. Those who know the effect of Clomid will immediately understand why it is used by numerous athletes. Clomid, by setting in motion the process of releasing hormones, stimulates the release of gonadotropin and triggers ovulation in women with anovulatory cycles and who are sterile because of this. Although this is actually a drug destined for women its effect on men is undisputed. The manufacturer of Dyneric,the Merrell Dow Pharma GmbH, writes in its package insert for the German version of Clomid: "Dyneric causes an improved activity between mid-brain, pituitary gland, and ovaries." What however is not mentioned is that Dyneric also improves the activity between mid-brain (hypothalamus), pituitary gland thypophysis), and testes in men. Clomid has a strong influence on the hypothalamohypophysial testicular axis. It stimulates the hypophysis to release more gonadotropin so that a faster and higher release of FSH (follicle stimulating hormone) aud LH (luteinizing hormone) occurs. This results in an elevated endogenous (body's own testosterone level. Clomid is especially effective when the body's own testosterone production, due to the intake of anabolic/androgenic steroids, is suppressed. In most cases Clomid can normalize the testosterone level and the spermatogenesis (sperm development)within 10-14 days. For this reason Clomid is primarily taken after steroids are discontinued. At this time it is extremely important to bring the testosterone production to a normal level as quickly as possible so that the loss of strength and muscle mass is minimized. Even better results can be achieved if Clomid is combined with HCG or when Clomid is used after the intake of HCG. The difference between Clomid and HCG lies in the fact that Clomid has a direct influence on the hypothalamus and the hypophysis, thus regenerating the entire regulating cycle while HCG imitates the effect of the luteinizing hormone (LH) which stimulates the Ledig's cells fo produce more testosterone. Since HCG, unlike Clomid, leads to a distinctly elevated plasmatestosterone level within a few hours, many athlets first take HCG and then Clomid (see also HCG).

Paradoxically, although Clomid is a synthetic estrogen it also works as an antiestrogen. The reason is that Clomid has only a very low estrogenic effect and thus the stronger estrogens which, for example form during the aromatization of steroids, are blocked at the receptors. These would include those that develop during the aromatizing of steroids. This does not prevent the steroids from aromatizing but the increased estrogen is mostly deactivated since it cannot attach to the receptors. The inereased water retention and the possible signs of feminization can thus be reduced or even completely avoided. Since the antiestrogenic effect of Clomid is lower than those found in Proviron, Nolvadex, and Teslac it is mainly taken as a testosterone stimulant. From the German book Doping By Brigitte Berendonk the reader can learn that Clomid is not only used in bodybuilding: "During the 1980's Clomiphene (table 2) has been used, a medication that promotes the production of the body's own stimulating hormone, gonadotropin, which in turn increases the testosterone level. - It is, for example, administered to women as a so-called antiestrogen to trigger ovulation ("ovulation stimulator").Clomiphene (usually the Hungarian compound Clostilbegyt) was used by rowers (resp. Prof. Dr. Herbert Gurtler) and weightlifers (Dr Lathan; p. 187) since the late 1970's. Increasingly, it was used in other sports disciplines as well, including track and field athletics. Riedel, at the time, happily made the handwritten entry in his notebook: "Substance that is not an anabolic: generally traceable but is not a doping substance." The dosages were horrendous. I found entries of up to l5 times 100mg daily and the report that the positive effect lasts up to 20 days after the last tablet is taken. And it was already assured since 1982 that the increased testosterone production after doping with Clomiphene did not reveal traits of the T/E quotient (testosterone/epitestosterone quotient, the author)during doping tests.

The information that was listed above is inaccurate. Clomid is NOT a breast cancer medication; it is a fertility drug. Clomid will not help with breast cancer as it will not elicit any effect on any tissue other than that which it was designed to affect.