I can email you my article that was posted here last november.

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Jeff

quote:

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Originally posted by Big Brother Val:
I always suggest shooting in the arms.
But I'm a bigtime arm guy.
I lost over an inch on my waist while shooting there, plus increased significant arm growth. So why not do both?
Jeff has great info on it.
I'm sure it will do you good.

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Long... https://www.elitefitness.com/ubb/Archives/Forum1/08-2000/024778.html

Interesting article ? Well if bodyfat is a concern, yes. For the hardcore bodybuilder who wants nothing but size, no. This is about doing something nobody did before (i think), shooting everywhere in the upperbody, so this could be a milestone.

Here are the long results:
Using 3 bottles Lutalyse from Upjohn and 60 amps of 5 cc from Sintyal (Argentinia).
The Upjohn is organic; the Sintyal syntetic (more slow acting).
390 cc for around 150 days, gives an average of 2.5 cc/day.
Started on may 22, 2000, last shot october 24, 2000.

Bad points for PG:

Too many injections
Sweating
Chills sometimes
Needing the bathroom after injection, sometimes a few times in an hour.
Cramps in the intestine.
Cramps in the stomac also.
Coughing after injection.
Needle phobia.
Pain for 1-3 hours in the injected muscle.
Did i mention pain ?

Bad points nobody mentionned before:

Getting sentitive behind the nipples.
Nipple area SHRINKS to about 1/3 or less of the normal size.
Nipple itself enlarges, doubling in size even when injecting the arms. This means the WHOLE body is involved.
Injecting in the abs muscle or fat results in a tickness that you can feel. The abs muscle absorbs the Lutalyse, or the PG attaches to the abs muscles and you cannot do anything against it, but wait untill it goes away.
Pain in both feet when taking more then 1 � cc a day. This started about 1 month after the beginning. (Arthritis ?).
Drinking Coke is unpleasant about one hour after the shot, it thickels too hard.
Even drinking coffee feels too intense, unpleasant.

Good points for PG:

High blood pressure goes DOWN (the lower, dangerous one)
NO stress on liver.
NO stress on kidneys.
No need taking pills to go to the bathroom.
No Deca-dick (hehehe).
No prostate problems.
No hair loss.
No roid rage.
No water retention (not at doses of 5 cc a day).
No growing hair on your body, besides everyone wants it on the head.
Getting used to the bad sides.
Putting the 30 gauge needle in is never a problem, unless you keep injecting the same spot over and over.
Pain is diminishing.

You can draw up with a 30 gauge so you can shoot with a 31/32 if you can find it.

First 2 months only shooting in the arms and delts, mostly arms.
Third month alternating arms, delts, abs muscle. Meanwhile noticing arm size shrinking.
Fourth and fifth month injection in the fat only.

Injections took place in the lower bi�s/tri�s, mid bi�s/tri�s, higher bi�s/tri�s, brachialis, front
delts, side delts, rear delts, forearms, quads, waist every where, like abs muscle, abs fat, lower back fat, higher back fat, sides (love handles), obliques, chest under, chest behind the nipples.

No calve shooting since shooting the left quad made me walk like if i had an injury.
So calves shooting wouldn�t be any better, besides the Ranger pointed out that shooting the calves would result in walking funny.
Forearms, stopped this after 5 or 6 injections (each side). Or it was in a vein, hitting a nerve or bone. Bi�s and tri�s, stopped those because it was getting harder and harder to do. The arms get thighter as if there is no room left for anything else, that�s why it gets harder to inject. The � inch i gained after 5-6 weeks did go away, so for me this was enough to stop shooting the arms. You know 1 step forward , 2 steps back, hate that.
I know of guys who didn�t gain any muscle size of it, but a lot DID gain. Maybe it depends on the doses, maybe it works more for some then for others. Remember there are guys who gain almost nothing shooting Test and others will grow like crazy. In my case maybe i should not have dropped the 11 pounds, should have waited, who knows. As Darkham states maybe you should use extra Insulin.

PG is a fat killer, that�s for sure, my chest looks better, fat under the nipple is less then before, almost gone completely. Also the lower back has lost fat, before my lower back looked good in the morning, bad in the evening, bad for me anyway. Now i am pleased with my lower back in the evening also. This should say enough. Especially since after starting with the Lutalyse my bodyweight was 198 pounds (coming off a Winny cycle) and i dropped 11 pounds to look better (187), more cut. Now i am at 202 pounds (still on Primobolan) and there is no need to drop weight. Dropping weight occurs only to loose bodyfat, when it feels or looks not the way it should. You look better then before the use of PG, that�s a F A C T. As for the abs, this is more difficult to say, because the six-pack isn�t showing like it should (damn). Did shoot in the abs muscle. Sometimes taking 2 cc and sticking myself in 10 different places covering the abs area. Fat was lost in the abs, just don�t know how much. If you have very much fat, well you will need a lot more then 800 shots to even see some results or you need MORE cc�s.
Got me an injury in the upmost right ab muscle. The echo in the hospital showed that my abs muscle was 0.7 inch thick (1.7 cm). I had an injury of about 0.4 inch (1 cm) around. It was a torned muscle, but why round like a circle (?). Scary. If it didn�t go away in 3 weeks an operation was needed (in the abs, thanks but no thanks). So i trained very carefully, loosing some size on the arms again, no tri�s training since this involves a lot of abs work. You notice this more when you are injured.
Convinced that the injury had nothing to do with the abs muscle injection, i kept on injecting them, but not the injured spot.
After give or take 4 weeks, i did hit the repaired muscle again, and guess what ?
7 days later, the injury was back, so no more abs muscle injection for me. Besides i am not fully recovered of this injury right now.
Shooting fat in the abs, lower back and chest (under the nipple) resulted in fat loss. After injecting the abs, a few days later the skin gets tighter, fat is going away, BUT after a week it seems that the skin gets looser again, so :

a)there is water coming in (not going away, and this would be impossible, i think)
b)the body restores to the original state. This fast, so this means mostly water disappeared and was coming back.
c)the body builds new fat cells to restore the imbalance it gets.
d)fat cells where not killed but getting smaller and recover after about a week, but if this was the case, then why good results in the back and chest ?
e)any suggestions ?

Right know, fat cells are not coming back behind the nipples, sides, back or abs. And i must stress abs are looking better, but the 600 mgr Primo/week can make a difference. Just don�t know for the moment.

The body does not fight back when your arms, delts get leaner. But where the waist is
concerned, the body fights back, maybe this is just a feeling. Also shooting in the abs muscle OR fat resulted in a thickness that will stay there for about 7-12 days and then goes away. As if the abs muscle sucks up the Lutalyse INSTANTLY, and it does. I mean after shooting the abs (mostly 1 � cc in 3 shots) i start massaging the injected area, but cannot alter the thickness that comes right after injection. The Lutalyse attaches to the abs muscle and
won�t let go. Shooting the muscle or fat gives the same result.
When i started with PG, like anybody else with small dosages, like 4x2 shots of 0.2 cc,
going up fast to 4x2x0.5 shots, arms changed impressively. Gaining � inch in 5-6 weeks.
They look leaner, more muscular. Max injected in bi�s or tri�s in one shot was 1 � cc. After stopping arms injection the � inch gained was lost again, as said, but they stayed very, very lean. Maybe the dosages where not high enough, but 4-5 cc�s a day was enough for me.
Odd but normally i gain 0;4 inch (1 cm) on the arms stuffing myself and gaining 7 pounds, 0.8 inch for 14 pounds. But not anymore. Now coming from 187 pounds to 202 gaines where barely 0.3 inch. This means my arms are leaned out, although i did NOT have fatty arms on the outside (please give me a break), maybe there was more on the inside. But now all fat seems to be disappeared. Gaining or loosing weight does not alter the arm size anymore, not like before. So it is hard to tell that there was no arm size gained. One doesn�t know how much fat there was lost. Let�s say you loose � inch of fat, so you have to gain � inch of muscle to restore the original size. For me fat was lost and muscle gained, but there was some size loss. You also loose size because the arms get very, very tight. So tight that after a few weeks you don�t want to inject them anymore. It�s as if there is no room left for anything. After stopping injecting them the arms get back to there original state; prior to the PG shots, but without the fat; This gives you the impression that you regain size.
If you want to take more then 4-5 cc�s a day, like 10 or 15, you will only be able to do this for a few weeks. Big Brother Val is one of those extreem very heavy users and he gets great results of it.
If you come off a cycle, changes are that you still have roids in your body for about a month, so you never where really off roids, but maybe you gain and keep more, since you are keeping your body in an anabolic state for a longer period.
So i think although it can be nice (not pleasant) to bridge with PG, you will get better results taking roids and PG together. Shooting roids and a few hours later PG gets you an effect way too strong, like getting an heart attack, especially if the PG was shot in the fat, which lets the Lutalyse stampeding through your lungs, mouth, everywhere. I had this effect and this was 30 minutes after eating. It was 4 hours after a Primobolan shot (200 mgr). This nevers occurs if you wait 7 or more hours. That�s way i know roids like Primo work heavier a few hours after the shot. Taking roids after the PG gives no problems, best is to wait one hour, just to be sure.
When i said pain is there for between 1-3 hours. One hour is normal but injecting in the left breast from downunder up, to close to the ribcage resulted in pain for 3 hours. It was a stupid shot, not using the mirror, doing it way to fast, but after so many shots, you know...Well the pain, you could feel in the heart muscle. The heart was definitly affected. Did this only once. Shooting under the nipple is ok and did help a lot. Shots in the lower back are the easiest of them all (after all those months anyway). Shots in the sides are also easy to do. Obliques a little harder, but not that much.
What i forgot to mention: when shooting the lower back and when the shot was in the kidney area, i took my skin between dumb and finger, pulled it out and put the needle in. The day after i had bruses as if someone hit me with his fist.

Nobody mentions the nipple problem. Nipple area shrinking to 1/3 or less of the normal size and nipple itself enlarging to double size. Getting very sensitive as if gyno is coming up. But i have this already for 5 months, so i guess it will be ok. This has nothing to do with shooting under the nipple. Even injecting in the arms, and i started in the arms where else ? gave this
situation from the beginning.
Also after a month my feet began to hurt. After a month it was the right foot. First you think you did something wrong training your calves, or going on the stairstepper, you just don�t know what is happening. Then a few weeks later it�s the left foot also. I don�t know what it is, but it was getting tougher and tougher. Standing still was very difficult. So i had to reduce the cc�s taken every day. Now after stopping for 3 days, the pain is going away. It is still there but less intense.
Your bloodpressure goes down. This can be very dangerous if you already have a low BP.
Suppose you have 100/45 and you take PG it goes down by 20-30 points and you end up in the danger zone. Before using PG my BP was 170/100. The lowest i got was 105/42 (give or take a point). If you use Lutalyse and roids together your BP stays low. Your body gets very very STABLE with PG.

Strange, even injecting the delts about 5 times less then the arms, they respond better. So anyone remembers the late Dan Duchaine�s words ? :

�They where getting lean and muscular, but all look like monkeys because of the
huge delts.�

At that point i think the late Dan didn�t go deep enough in his study.
Why would any BB get delts like a monkey. There is not ONE BB that would shoot PG for local growth in the delts alone. Not one. So everyone is/was shooting the delts AND arms.
Why didn�t Duchaine say: they all got over-developed arms. Well in my opinion some
bodyparts react better on PG then other, react better and grow better.
I felt progress in the delts myself, for keeps, not the arms though (no size gains).

On a (pain)scale i would give PGF2a 8/10, (roids 3/10) because if it would be any harder to take, i would pass. You may not forget, this if for improving your body, not your last change for staying alive. But the pain gets less intensive after months of shooting. In fact right now i could take this forever, one injection cycle a day, otherwise it would be getting too much. You know ....shoot, shoot , shoot

I know the Ranger gives PG 5-6 for pain, but he is a pain freak and not everyone has the same pain level he has. Besides if he gives PG 5-6 he will give roids 1-2, i am very sure of this.

Conclusions :

There are some good sides you can have using PG, but you are the only person to judge this, since you have to go through a lot of discomfort. Don�t buy too much at once, buy one bottle, try it out, then decide if you want more. And please use insulin needles. Some say shoot the PG 30 minutes after eating, for your insuline release, i disagree. Shoot the PG and be sure to eat 5-10 minutes after the shot and you definitly feel better. (I don�t say your results will be better).
I stopped after 5 months because i ran out of PG and one has to stop sometime.
Besides the bad, unknow sides that can come in the long run scare me.
Will i be on it again ? Don�t know. If the fat stays away and the lean look stays, no, because then i have all that is want. But doing it again, to be even more lean, is very tempting.
Although it seems you can gain fast size on your arms, i think you can gain this on roids alone also. Even if it takes 3 months longer, it sure is more comfortable. And why the rush ?

Jeff

PGF2a: a second milestone (for me anyway).
Started on 19 january 2001 and still on it.
Already 3 months now.

All i write here is true. I am not saying everyone will react the same, can only tell you how it was for me.

Found myself a Belgian pharmacie and the woman was so kind to order for me 2 boxes of Lutalyse Upjohn. (Here in Belgium it is named Dinolytic (dinoprost tromethamine, which is the same as Lutalyse in the U.S.A.). The box contains 5 bottles of 10 cc and as a standard 5 mg/cc of the PGF. Have only one, the second is on it's way.

Well today i restarted my PGF2a use and this for the following reasons:

* want to lean the shoulders and arms even more out and this time the goal was to optain one inch on the arms, give or take. Since for me PGF gave no size before, this time i would use the stuff together with Winny Zambon. The Zambon (after shaking) also goes through an insulin needle, is also water based, so the stuff would be mixed and shot at the same time.
Since the PGF is a fast acting drug, even the Winny (also fast acting, but not THAT fast) would not be able to interfere the first 30 minutes of injection, i hope.

* want to use roids again and the PGF will help the BP to stay low .

* want to do 2 cc's of PGF a day mixed with 2 cc of Winstrol Zambon. Using 2 injection cycles of 2 shots, so Winny would be taking in the morning and evening for 14 days. Or maybe everything goes in, in the morning which i prefer, because then i am free for the rest of the day.

* want to find out if the pain will be back there as before, the coughing, the chills, the sweating....

* want to find a way to get around any side without using anything that would alter the
good (?) work of the Lutalyse...

* also the Ranger and Huck where on it, and that inspired me to restart again.

PGF will be taken for a few weeks to get my body stable and then use the mix with the Winny. Also i will use milk tistle in heavy doses for 14 days before hitting the Zambon.
(Another reason for waiting with the mix, i still do not have the Winny for the moment, but i have a prescription for 12 boxes, hehehe).

I was thinking about all this already for a month, could the pain stay away? My last shot was on 24/10/2000, so we are almost 3 months later. My personal thought, no, that would be impossible.

Taking 1/2 cc in the left tri's (today is arms training day, so the shoulders will get it tomorrow). Always shoot the area trained that evening.

So 10.05 am and the stuff is in for 5 minutes and NOTHING happens. No sweating, no coughing, no chills, no pain. I once again look at the box to see (again) if it says PGF2a and yes it does.
Taking immediatly the second 1/2 cc in the right tri's. One hour later and no coughing, no sweating, still NO PAIN. For the bathroom question, i still use herbs so the going is easy.

14 am same day and shooting 1 cc at once (left and right bi). Still no coughing, no chills, no sweating, feeling nothing coming in the lungs, NO PAIN.
Sunday 28/01 taking only 1 cc in the morning.
After 10 days of no pain i wanted to report this on the boards, but to make sure i was not
mistaking the dose had to go up.
Monday 29/01 taking 2 cc's at once, which was the maximum i ever took in one injection cycle and even then it was only once in a while. Usually taking 1 1/2 cc because at that dose i didn't feel too lousy. Still 2 cc's that monday and nothing happened.
Tuesday 30/01 taking 3 cc's at once. Two coughs with some minutes in between, no chills, a little sweat on the forehead, no lung attack, NO PAIN. And this was twice my favorite dose i used to take WITH pain.
I wanted to stop upping the dose since 3 cc's at once is not bad at all.
Wednesday 31/01 and was curious how much more i could take right now. Did 1 cc in the left front delt, 1 cc in the left tri, and immediatly 1 cc , in the right tri. Trying to put the fourth cc in the right front delt, but being nervous i almost dropped the syringe. Also had to try 3 times before the 30 gauge was in. All this because i was afraid of what would eventually come.
This time coughing was back. Had to cough just once and a few minutes later again. A total of 7 coughs. Had the chills for about 40 minutes, sweating all over the face for 15 minutes, just a little bit on the body. a MINOR lung attack each time there was a cough. You could hardly notice this lung attack. NO PAIN at all.
Pain is no longer an issue, it's more a feeling of disconfort. Up to now i still feel more disconfort shooting 1/2 cc in each bi, than shooting 4 cc's at once in the delts and tri's. But at that dose one feels a bit sick because there is much Lutalyse travelling through your body and you are not used to up the dose this fast.
Taking 5 cc's at once right now would be pushing it. Not for the pain but for the sick feeling. But one could gradually up the dose. I am very convinced that 5 or 6 cc's would be possible in the near future. If only growth would occur, but for me it doesn't. Unfortunatly my feet began to hurt again. After the 4 cc shot my hands where getting very cold, as if blood doesn't reach your fingers anymore. Also it felt as if the hands where getting the same problem as the feet, but it is to soon to be certain of what is happening.

Conclusions:

Well the muscle cells remember. They remember where you left them when you stopped the shooting.
I had no pain with my last shot on 24/10 last year and had not pain on 19/01 this year.
This means you can get used to PGF and have to go trough the pain barrier only ONCE in your life.

That's what this article is about, you can beat the pain.

So anybody can take small doses at once, go at it for months and once the pain stays away, the sky is the limit.
The body remembers. Further more every cell in your body gets affected and STAYS affected. It�s not like your receptors getting full, then empty again.
It has been 3 months. I don�t know if after 3 years the body would remember, but my guess is YES, because if after 3 months of non-use a little pain had come back, then there was an indication that the effects of the Lutalyse where going away. But no, no pain at all. So right now if i had to give points from 1-10 for pain, i would give PGF 3 to 4 points, like roids, no more than that. (And i used to give PGF 8/10).
So i already know now, this will NOT be my last PGF use. Anyhow the sweating, the chills, the coughing and the lung attack (at least when taking 3 cc's at once or less) are no longer a problem. But most important the pain was conquered. No longer climbing the walls.
Still there are too many injections to take and shooting the bi's frequently also gives too much disconfort, unpleasant. So it depends on the muscle you hit, how you feel.

Strange enough when you read the little addy in the box, it says 1 cc every day for each cow (???????).

Jeff

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Jeff

DON'T SKIM THROUGH THAT INFO, DAMNIT!!!

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Jeff

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Jeff

quote:

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Originally posted by Jeff_rys:
you should use a 30 gauge, 1/2 inch. Since it is only for fat reduction, best is to shoot in the fat. Also you can do it with moderate doses like 1/2 cc at a time, so almost no sides. Stick yourself a couple times a day.

I can email you my article that was posted here last november.

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can youi send me a copy of the article