GEORGE SPELLWIN'S ANNOUNCEMENTS
Enlightening Men about Anabolic Steroids and Bodybuilding for over Two Decades
|
 Elite Fitness Bodybuilding, Anabolics, Diet, Life Extension, Wellness, Supplements, and Training Boards
 Anabolic Discussion Board
 If your prone to gyno.......
|
| Author | Topic: If your prone to gyno....... | ||
|
Cool Novice 
Posts: 26 |
Which is safer Sus or deca?? I know they are both considered pretty safe when it comes to side effects but is one safer than the other? thanks in advance     | ||
|
Cool Novice
Posts: 35 |
deca has a lot of sides! especially since it converts to progesterone also ------------------ | ||
|
Cool Novice
Posts: 26 |
Sus is safer than when it comes to gyno?? | ||
|
Cool Novice
Posts: 26 |
Sus is safer than when it comes to gyno?? | ||
|
Amateur Bodybuilder 
Posts: 154 |
No - Always have nolvadex. Fighting gyno from Sus is easier because you only get it from one source - where as deca you could be getting gyno from one of two ways. IMHO Sustanon is much better than deca. It's test after all. rxderrick | ||
|
Amateur Bodybuilder
Posts: 150 |
i would definately say sust. if you go with deca, you either have to get some winny, or get RU-486, which isn't easy to find. go with the sust. ------------------ | ||
|
Elite Bodybuilder 
Posts: 1013 |
yep, im getting gyno from my deca /win cycle, wish i brought the nolvadex!!! | ||
|
Amateur Bodybuilder
Posts: 93 |
quote: Nolvadex? And what the hell would you do with that. Rub it on your "Deca-tits?". BUMP | ||
|
Amateur Bodybuilder
Posts: 190 |
quote: barney what are your dosages ? I doubt the nolvadex would help with deca tata's anyways. | ||
|
Olympian 
Posts: 1668 |
quote: "with Deca you get Gyno from one of two ways" WTF????? Deca is progestenic. Period. It has no ESTROGENIC activity to speak of. You can only get progesterone -induced gyno fromn Deca. And Deca has A LOT LESS sides than Sust. Godspeed | ||
|
Elite Bodybuilder
Posts: 1013 |
3finger, get your facts right first, deca can cause estrogen related gyno due to elevated test levels, hence the need for nolvadex, i dont have nolv because of seeking advice on these boards and getting information from dipshits like yourself who dont know jack, so fuck up or fuck off!!
| ||
|
Olympian
Posts: 1668 |
quote: OMG, you've been here a year and you still don't know how Deca works?!!!!! Deca causes gyno because of estrogen elevation???? Are you nuts..... Even better...."due to elevated test levels" WTF??? Deca raises test levels??? Man, you need to do more research. Nandrolone is not testosterone. Nandrolone suppresses test levels. And Novaldex does nothing for Deca-induced gyno. All I can say is WOW!!  Godspeed | ||
|
Elite Bodybuilder
Posts: 1013 |
fonz, i have spoken to a lot of mods about this issue, and i am surprised you to (as i respect a lot of what you have to say in the past) are unaware of the action deca takes part on the body, here is one of the better explanations i have seen Deca is just a derivative of testosterone, less androgenic (and therefore less anabolic) but a form of it in any case. Testosterone is more harsh (being more androgenic), but any "steroid" is just a form of testosterone. The introduction of exogenous (from the outside) testosterone throws your endocrine system out of whack, the exrta test tells your body that there is an imbalance, so it produces estrogen to try and strike a balance. If you are prone to it, the receptors in your breast tissue sense the estrogen and respond by growing you your very own set of boobies! A.K.A. Gyno Hence nolvadex is needed for deca if you are someone that is not willing to leave anything to chance, i have learned personally from this mistake. | ||
|
Olympian
Posts: 1668 |
I'd like you to post the name of the mod that told you that because its blatantly wrong. Nandrolone is NOR-testosterone. When nandrolone is exogeneously given to a male. 1. Test is suppressed. (Endogeneous test levels are basically nil) 2. Aromatase Enzyme levels are now IRRELEVANT because test is nil. 3. Nor-testosterone DOES aromatize, but to Nor-estrogen, which is about 30% the strength of estrogen. So now the only estrogen floating around is the estrogen expressed by the fat cells. I find it VERY hard to believe you got gyno due to this. If you did, you're EXTREMELY sensitive to estrogen. Godspeed | ||
|
Elite Bodybuilder
Posts: 1013 |
i agree that it is really rare but i dont agree with you saying that 'period.it cant be estrogenic', some people are extremely sensative, i now believe i am one and i know of others that have posted on this board with similar prob's. i just wish people wouldn't be so cut and dry on issues when they are providing misinformation. | ||
|
Pro Bodybuilder 
Posts: 317 |
OK now I'm getting confused. I am about to start a Deca/Winny cycle, and I am prone to gyno when I have taken test in the past. I need to know how to combat this and when to start. Do I really need Nolvadex, Proviron, or both? Should I start mid-cycle, or just when symptoms occur? I really need some answers from people w/ experience from this, so please help a bro out! ------------------ | ||
|
Pro Bodybuilder
Posts: 317 |
Bump for an answer please. ------------------ | ||
|
Cool Novice
Posts: 26 |
I friend told me it is is not uncommon to get signs of gyno a few months after your deca cycle because deca stays in your system for a long time. Is that true? | ||
|
Cool Novice
Posts: 26 |
I friend told me it is is not uncommon to get signs of gyno a few months after your deca cycle because deca stays in your system for a long time. Is that true? | ||
|
Pro Bodybuilder
Posts: 317 |
Is it that you guys don't know the answer or is it beneath your level of intelligence. Maybe some mods could help with this one. ------------------ | ||
|
Olympian
Posts: 1668 |
quote: I wouldn't worry about it. You can ommit any type of anti-estrogen. Winstrol would be a good choice because of its anti-progesterone capibilities though. Godspeed | ||
|
Elite Bodybuilder
Posts: 976 |
I hate to say it but Fonz is correct.Nor-testosterone is not a testosterone derivitive. This is how deca (nandralone) differes from other AS. It will supress the natural test levels MORE than exogenous injections of testosterone due to its two mods of action: hypothalamal feedback inhibition and progesterone's effects on leutinizing hormone inhibition. It is probably harder to recuperate HPTA afer a deca cycle. Deca (nandralone) will convert to nor-testosterone through the 5-alpha reductase pathway. Once it becomes nor-testosterone, some may convert to progesterone. However, it is structurally impossible to convert nor-testosterone into estrodiol. Therefore antiaromitase will not help as they bind to estromitase enzymes and will not hinder the conversion to progesterone. However, nolvadex is thought to have progesterone antagonistic properties. RU-486 will block progesterone from its respective receptor sites which is probably the same way that winstrol emits its effect. In the unlikely case that you do actually get gyno from deca/winny, you are extremely suceptable to progestrogenic activity and woudl be advised to only use AS that is derived from testosterone so that you can use an antiestrogen.
| ||
|
Elite Bodybuilder
Posts: 976 |
I hate to say it but Fonz is correct.Nor-testosterone is not a testosterone derivitive. This is how deca (nandralone) differes from other AS. It will supress the natural test levels MORE than exogenous injections of testosterone due to its two mods of action: hypothalamal feedback inhibition and progesterone's effects on leutinizing hormone inhibition. It is probably harder to recuperate HPTA afer a deca cycle. Deca (nandralone) will convert to nor-testosterone through the 5-alpha reductase pathway. Once it becomes nor-testosterone, some may convert to progesterone. However, it is structurally impossible to convert nor-testosterone into estrodiol. Therefore antiaromitase will not help as they bind to estromitase enzymes and will not hinder the conversion to progesterone. However, nolvadex is thought to have progesterone antagonistic properties. RU-486 will block progesterone from its respective receptor sites which is probably the same way that winstrol emits its effect. In the unlikely case that you do actually get gyno from deca/winny, you are extremely suceptable to progestrogenic activity and woudl be advised to only use AS that is derived from testosterone so that you can use an antiestrogen.
| ||
|
Elite Bodybuilder
Posts: 1156 |
quote: I don't know where you got your information from. Have you ever used Deca personally? ------------------ | ||
|
Mutant   
Posts: 3346 |
There is no common logic but and I emphasise the but that nolvadex in some individuals has tended to help them to a small extent, ask 2Thick | ||
|
Amateur Bodybuilder
Posts: 190 |
Barney- Was there anything else outside of gear that could of caused it? Like Weed, Propecia? I'm sure you thought of it, but all of us forget sometimes! especially when we're high! | ||
|
Amateur Bodybuilder
Posts: 64 |
Holy fuck am i ever fucked up, Iam about to do a sustanon cycle with 300 mg of deca per week, and I never used it before, and I never heard of ru-486 or whatever it was, so armidex and novaldex are defensless against deca. I don't know if I want to do deca now. | ||
|
Mutant
Posts: 3346 |
PIPES 19 use eq instead | ||
|
Elite Bodybuilder
Posts: 1013 |
no, it defineitely aint the weed. yes, you should be worried about gyno months after you stop deca just ask harmonic. i'll have to agree to disagree with these boys about estrogen and deca, all i'll say is if you wont to take the risk without the nolva, go for it. | ||
|
Cool Novice
Posts: 26 |
Does that mean sus is safer? With novla and clomid of course. |
All times are ET (US) | |
 |
|
|
posted April 15, 2001 07:43 PM
