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 Anabolic Discussion Board
 Low-dosage, extended DNP cycle
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| Author | Topic: Low-dosage, extended DNP cycle | ||
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Cool Novice 
Posts: 47 |
Just finished my first week of DNP at 500mg/day (I weighed 170 at the start). It wasn't the living hell I thought it was, but it was no walk in the park either! I'll know how well it worked in a few days. I'm taking a week off, but when I get back on I'm thinking of halving the dosage and doubling my time on--200mg/day for 2 weeks. Macrophage suggested this strategy a while back. Has anyone tried it, and did it work? How did it compare in sides and effectiveness to using the full dosage? Thanks guys, H    | ||
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Amateur Bodybuilder 
Posts: 77 |
bump  | ||
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Cool Novice
Posts: 47 |
Bump | ||
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Amateur Bodybuilder
Posts: 124 |
ok, i'd really suggest waiting longer than a week off before trying your 2nd cycle. it will take much longer than this for dnp to completely clear your body. i don't know why it's never talked about, but dnp is EXTREMELY toxic to the liver and kidneys. also this give you time for your thyroid to normalize again. i don't recommend extra t3 b/c the combination of dnp and t3 is too catabolic to the muscles. after a month off, you can try the 200mg/day extended, but i don't feel that this is effective. i have tried this and from personal experience i can tell you that thyroid still shuts down at about the same time. you might as well take a little more pain and up the dose. my personal preference is to go with 800mg/day for the first 2 days in 4 divided doses of 200mg each. then cut back to 600mg/day for days 3-8. days 9-11 taper off gradually. the reason i taper is because my body has a hell of a time maintaining proper temperature if i cut off the dosage immediately. i also get flu like symptoms really badly too if i don't taper. ------------------ | ||
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Cool Novice
Posts: 47 |
Thanks, DNP Guru. Quite the modest name, by the way! Anyone have any other opinions? I got the idea from a post by Macrophage69alpha, but the search isn't working so I can't access it for you guys. He said you'd get the same net results by halving your dosage and doubling the length of your cycle, but you wouldn't suffer the side effects much. By the way, this morning I felt really lethargic and my brain felt like it was working at about 1/2 capacity. Almost like I was very hypoglycemic. This was before and lasted maybe an hour after a big breakfast, my first big meal in a week. Anyone else experienced this, on or right after a DNP cycle? H | ||
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Elite Bodybuilder 
Posts: 1452 |
quote: DNP blocks insulin which doesn't let a lot of trytophan pass the blood-brain barrier leading to less Serotonin produced(5-HT). Conclusion: You feel lethargic. And I was the one that suggested longer low-dosage cycles. Godspeed | ||
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Amateur Bodybuilder
Posts: 265 |
Can't help you on this one bro... but I too am interested in the answer to your inquiry by someone who knows... BUMP! ------------------ | ||
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Amateur Bodybuilder
Posts: 124 |
dnp does not actually "block" insulin. it brings glucose from the blood into the cells, having an insulin-like effect. having too much dnp and not enough glucose in the blood will cause you to have low blood glucose, or hypoglycemia. take some glycerol!!! it's essential. it's nasty, but chug it down and chase with plenty of water. at least 3 tablespoons/day in divided doses, but i prefer to have 5. either way, you shouldn't be on a no/low carb diet. | ||
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Cool Novice
Posts: 47 |
Sorry Fonz, didn't mean to diss you like that. So, you think a low-dosage, extended DNP cycle is as productive as a shorter, more intense one? Any thoughts on DNP Guru's opinion that such a cycle isn't effective? Cuts--yeah dude, 170 max. Hopefully less after DNP. 5'10". Not exactly a weightlifter's build, but that's why I'm on an anabolics board, you know? Guru--glycerol is essential for what, proper hydration? How will it help me out? And where can I get it? Thanks guys. H
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Elite Bodybuilder
Posts: 646 |
DNP guru, actually i' ve never heard of dnp beeing toxic to the liver and kidneys, quite the contrary. in fact i 've read in my researches that all animals died form dintrophenol overdoses didn't have any sign of kidney/liver damage, and they died from overheating and dehydratation. if i 'm wrong i'd like to see some references that proove it. | ||
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Elite Bodybuilder
Posts: 1452 |
quote: I think you need to be brought back down to earth. Here is a little science lesson: Increase in blood glucose=increase in glucose metabolism Increase in intracellular ATP=inhibition of KATP channel (KATP=potassium dependant ATP chanel) When this channel is closed: The cell is de-polarized, Ca++ up-take is blocked, insulin EXOCYTOSIS So, KATP channel blocked: more strength KATP channel activated: less strength DNP, INCREASES BLOOD GLUCOSE BUT(and I stress this) the LEVELS OF ATP DO NOT INCREASE AS the DNP is blocking the production of ATP eventually leading to a depleted ATP state. In this case KATP channels stay OPEN!!!!! Therefore, calcium is NOT taken into the cell and therefore INSULIN is NOT RELEASED. Now get it through your skull. Godspeed and I'm feeling cranky. | ||
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Amateur Bodybuilder
Posts: 63 |
Well, first you point to where someone died from overheating! | ||
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Elite Bodybuilder
Posts: 1452 |
quote: I second that. If anybody were to die it would be from severe dehydration due to drinking zero fluids. Godspeed | ||
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Amateur Bodybuilder
Posts: 124 |
the following are some of MANY toxicity reports of liver toxicity in association with DNP. i'm stuck at my lab right now and don't have access to more info at the library, so i can only give you a few examples. i currently do research with DNP and these are just some of the journals i happen to have, but believe me there are plenty more. if you'd like i can find more on DNP and kidney toxicity as well. btw, per milligram basis, DNP is about 10x more toxic than halotestin to the liver. difference is, DNP cycles are much shorter and wouldn't hurt the liver as badly as an extended halo cycle. this is also why i recommend waiting at least a month in between cycles. i've learned the hard way and started pissing out blood from just dnp use and nothing else, so i know from first hand experience that it causes kidney damage too. if that's not enough i'll try to pull out some renal toxicology reports for you.
Role of the ADP/ATP and aspartate/glutamate antiporters in the uncoupling effect of fatty acids, lauryl sulfate, and 2, 4-dinitrophenol in liver mitochondria.
Photoaffinity labeling of rat liver glutathione S-transferase, 4-4, by glutathionyl S-[4-(succinimidyl)-benzophenone]. Structural and functional comparison of agents interfering with dihydroorotate, succinate and NADH oxidation of rat liver mitochondria. Oxidative phosphorylation in intact hepatocytes: quantitative characterization of the mechanisms of change in efficiency and cellular consequences. ------------------ | ||
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Elite Bodybuilder
Posts: 646 |
hey fonz, what do you think about this "presumed" toxicity to kidneys and liver? And also please take a look to my thread on dnp and cycling, i 'd be glad to hear something form you about that. | ||
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Amateur Bodybuilder
Posts: 124 |
oh yeah, one more thing, animals overheat much easier than humans because humans can dissipate the heat created by dnp much easier than animals. dnp is a strong vasodilator and prevents the core temp from rising too high too fast. death in humans would most likely be due to a lack of ATP in the cells. for example, if ATP production all of a sudden stopped you would survive no longer than .002 seconds. even without oxygen our bodies can survive 4 minutes without serious brain damage. ------------------ | ||
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Amateur Bodybuilder
Posts: 124 |
first of all fonz, i didn't come on here to flame you or anyone else so relax pal. when i said dnp does not exactly "block" insulin i meant it doesn't directly bind to any enzymes that would inhibit insulin release like it binds to Na/K atpase to block ATP production. from your science lesson you seemd to imply that insulin is released from the somatic sells via exocytosis...?? ------------------ | ||
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Elite Bodybuilder
Posts: 1452 |
quote: Ok, I'll admit I was out of line. I get cranky once in a while because my ribs itch like crazy. I was simply referring to the fact that Insulin is not released due to DNP's ATP blocking yet blood glucose increasing effects. However, DNP does not totally block ATP. This is impossible. It just makes the production of ATP much less efficient. Godspeed | ||
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Amateur Bodybuilder
Posts: 173 |
I was wondering about dnp's effect on the kidneys also. I've been off of all harsh roids for about 6 weeks now. I was getting kidney pain twards the end but it went away. I have just been running primo and i started my dnp 5 days ago and I am starting to get slight kidney pains again. | ||
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Cool Novice
Posts: 47 |
Interesting discussion, guys. So have we reached any verdict on longer, low-dosage DNP cycles? H | ||
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Amateur Bodybuilder
Posts: 77 |
QUESTION: People recommend that you eat less carbs while on DNP to avoid crazy heat. My understanding is that this heat enhances the thermogenic properties of DNP, which is what burns the fat. Don't the carbs drive the fat-burning?? | ||
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Elite Bodybuilder
Posts: 1452 |
quote: Great question!!! Conversion rate to glucose: Carbohydrates: 100% Proteins: 58% Fats: 10% For an optimal DNP diet you have to eat a certain amount of protein to keep from going catabolic. Roughly 1g/lb is enough. After that is done: 1. If the rest of the Kcal come from Carbs, the glucose converted will be blocked from producing ATP and the excess energy will be expelled as heat. At the same time however your body needs an energy source and will begin oxidizing fatty acids for fuel. This is EXACTLY what we want. Only problem is straight carbs cause huge glycemic changes and are not very filling leading to great hunger. Not to mention the increase in heat. 2. The most efficient diet to do while on DNP would be an isometric one: 33%fat/33%prot/33%carbs because the fat would slow down gastric emptying, the carbs would be high enough not to cause dizziness, and also low enough not to cause excessive sweating. Hope that helped...... As an addendum, longer cycles are perfect for us students/job-holders who cannot afford to be sweating at work/or be absent because of a bad nights sleep from classes. At a dosage of 200mg/day 3-5lbs of fat lost a week is very easily achievable with a normal dieting diet, yet excessive sweating is rarely seen(only when you do excercise but then who cares). Keep the questions on longer cycles coming, as not many of us likes to stay indoors out of any social contact for 10-12 days at a time.(LOL) Godspeed | ||
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Amateur Bodybuilder
Posts: 77 |
Thanx a million, FONZ. One more question: How many calories per day?? | ||
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Amateur Bodybuilder
Posts: 124 |
good post fonz, i agree with you completely about your ideas on extended cycles. if convenience and practicality are important then extended lower dose cycles are the way to go. ------------------ | ||
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Amateur Bodybuilder
Posts: 124 |
oh yeah, one more thing, only odd chain fatty acids have the capability of converting to glucose. i can't find any literature at the moment that shows the percentage of these that are naturally occuring in your body and foods, but i think it's way less than 10%. i do agree with your isometric diet plan while on DNP though. | ||
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Elite Bodybuilder
Posts: 1452 |
10X would be optimal. At this dosage ECA would be recommended though to combat the hunger increase due to the DNP. DNP guru, there is a glycerol molecule at the end of the fatty acid chain(Hence the name triGLYCERIDES. This is a simple carb that readily converts to glucose. I think you might be thinking of the thermogenic properties of fats, which are roughly 3%. (In comparison to 25% protein and 10-15% carbs) Godspeed | ||
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Amateur Bodybuilder
Posts: 124 |
i feel like an idiot. forgot about the glycerol on fats... ------------------ | ||
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Amateur Bodybuilder
Posts: 163 |
Great thread guys!! Both Fonz and DNP guru answered a lot of my questions. Can't wait to get it. I'm in that same position in that I work at a place that it would be very awkward if I was sweating like crazy and directly after work I go to school, which is another place that it wouldn't be acceptable. I think I'm gonna stick at the 200mg. I'm only 180lbs so we'll see. | ||
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Amateur Bodybuilder
Posts: 124 |
and you live in florida... yikes! i'm not brave enought to do a cycle of dnp unless it's 50 degrees or lower. ------------------ | ||
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Amateur Bodybuilder
Posts: 163 |
Yea that's what I was thinking. Today and the rest of this week it's 89 degrees. I guess I'm gonna be sweating a lot. | ||
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Amateur Bodybuilder
Posts: 163 |
You know I was thinking about DNP guru and Fonz. I think you guys should team up and make a DNP website. I don't care what they say about you Fonz, you have been really good source of info on AS and DNP. You and dnp guru can make a really ggod site. Honestly you guys sound like the same person but if not, man that would be a great idea. | ||
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Novice 
Posts: 6 |
Great post Fonz and DNP Guru. I am about to start DNP in about two weeks. This info helped me out a lot. Haywood Jablome how much weight did you lose at 500mg a day? | ||
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Amateur Bodybuilder
Posts: 124 |
nope, not the same person. i'm sure fonz knows a hell of a lot more than me regarding AS. ------------------ | ||
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Elite Bodybuilder
Posts: 1452 |
No, DNP Guru and myself are two different people. I realize certain people tried to flame me for a time, but Elite(as you can probably tell) is very territorrial. It comes with the program so -to-speak. I generally just try to keep people informed on how drugs work/and how to use them properly and efficiently. Godspeed | ||
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Amateur Bodybuilder
Posts: 124 |
hey fonz, now that you're on again, i was under the impression that triacylglycerols can only lose 2 of its fatty acid chains and not all 3 to give free floating glycerol. now i'm at home and don't have my text books for reference. | ||
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Elite Bodybuilder
Posts: 1452 |
quote: Triglycerides have a triple-glycerol ring at the end. I'm 99% sure its metabolized as glucose though. Godspeed And good morning to you too.... | ||
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Amateur Bodybuilder
Posts: 124 |
i knew that glycerol converted easily into glucose, but i didn't think the glycerol backbone could be isolated from fats, but i'll take your word for it. | ||
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Elite Bodybuilder
Posts: 1452 |
quote: Ketones are oxidized Triglycerides. They have no glycerol backbone. Just an example. Godspeed | ||
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Elite Bodybuilder
Posts: 646 |
Hey fonz, you answered everyone's question but not mine. Do you belive dnp is toxic to the liver and kidneys or not? | ||
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Elite Bodybuilder
Posts: 646 |
Hey fonz, you answered everyone's question but not mine. Do you belive dnp is toxic to the liver and kidneys or not? | ||
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Cool Novice
Posts: 47 |
Knight Train--I haven't noticed any weight loss yet, but this is only my second day off DNP. Most people say that around day 3 to day 5 they suddenly notice the weight loss, because it takes that long to shed the water they retained. H | ||
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Elite Bodybuilder
Posts: 1452 |
quote: Sorry about that Fener, but I don't believe DNP is toxic at all. Maybe if you used it for like one year straight...LOL(but thats just plain dumb) Goodspeed | ||
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Elite Bodybuilder
Posts: 646 |
yeah fonz, that's waht i supposed too. No toxicity, only danger form an overdose. | ||
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Amateur Bodybuilder
Posts: 124 |
quote: i would love to believe that too, but use it enough in high doses and you'll start pissing blood and will think differently. the toxicity studies i posted were not mere fabrications. if you have library access you should look them up. | ||
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Elite Bodybuilder
Posts: 709 |
The DNP tests done on rats are fairly insignificant since there is plenty of clinical evidence of DNP's affects. Remember DNP was used as a fat burning drug at one time. It was used by people for periods exceeding one year and the alarming side effects all seemed to stem from dehydration. So to answer the origional question, yes people have done quite well with long, low dose cycles of DNP. I prefer to use 3 day cycles at 400-600mg but some people are gluttons for punishment and enjoy the longer, far more uncomfortable 10-14 day cycles. DNP guru, you should really go and butt heads with Animal or Macro sometime since they seem to know more about DNP than everyone in this thread combined. giantset | ||
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Amateur Bodybuilder
Posts: 124 |
giantset: sorry to hear you're stuck in bumfuckt egypt  i'm not here to butt heads with anyone. i'm just trying to offer facts to help people in their dnp endeavors. cheers. | ||
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Elite Bodybuilder
Posts: 709 |
DNP guru, I didn't mean that in a negative way. I meant maybe you should debate some of these issues with Animal and Macro. I would be very interested in seeing all of your views on the liver and renal toxicity of DNP. My bad mood must be coming through in my posts. I am on DNP now and my air conditioner went out so I am stuck indoors in very humid 80-90F heat. I really don't live in bumfuckt egypt. I just use that to throw off the cops. I actually live in east jesus. giantset | ||
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Amateur Bodybuilder
Posts: 124 |
lol.. high dnp dosage and no air conditioning. i'd rather crap out golf ball sized hemorrhoids.. lol. sorry to hear your bad luck. i'm new to the this board and don't know macro or animal, but have heard of the legends of animal from other literature on AS. i'm sure he's very knowlegeable. | ||
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Pro Bodybuilder 
Posts: 414 |
i did 200mg/day for 16 days. I was going to go longer but i got no noticible results. I talked with Mac at length before about low dose cycles, but unless you follow a strict diet and do all the cardio and shit, it wont really work (IMO). Besides, we take DNP so we dont have to diet and to halacious cardio sessions! Im curious about the liver/kidney toxcicity bit, i have read that DNP in NOT harmful to liver and kidneys at all. Ill have to go find the writing again, but i do remember it was pretty old, but it was based on observation of HUMAN subjects taking DNP wor weight loss. | ||
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Pro Bodybuilder
Posts: 362 |
you need to change your name because you aren't a DNP guru | ||
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Elite Bodybuilder
Posts: 1452 |
quote: Twin GAT's thats very disrespectful. How did you come to this conclusion? Give the poor guy the benefit of the doubt for gods sake. No need to flame him. Godspeed |
All times are ET (US) | |
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posted April 09, 2001 12:57 AM