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  Are protein shakes that important or just a WASTE....READ

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Author Topic:   Are protein shakes that important or just a WASTE....READ
roadruler

Pro Bodybuilder

Posts: 300
From:
Registered: Feb 2000

posted April 02, 2001 03:51 PM

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I've been taking a nutrition course at my university and my professor said that protien shakes/supplements are a waste of time and money. If you eat pretty good throughout the day your body gets enough gms of protein even if you lift weights. In fact she also said that if you consume too much protein your body will store it as fat. So I wanted a second opinion and I asked another nutritionist that I know and he agreed with her. So I was going to ask you guys what you thought and then I come along this article today at my yahoo home page:

Understanding Protein
by Sue Gilbert, M.S., Nutritionist
Not counting water, protein makes up three quarters of your body and is found in every cell. Your muscles, organs, some hormones, and certain antibodies and enzymes are all made up of protein. No wonder this incredible substance was named from the Greek root meaning 'of first importance.'


What is Protein?
Proteins are complex compounds that are made up of smaller compounds called amino acids. There are twenty different amino acids that can be combined in an infinite number of ways to make up all the thousands of different proteins your body needs. Of these twenty amino acids, your body can manufacture eleven. The other nine must be supplied by your diet and are therefore called 'the essential amino acids.'

How Does Your Body Use Protein?
When you consume protein, your digestive system will break it down into its component amino acids. These amino acids go into an amino acid 'bank' that your body can draw from to put together the proteins that it needs for tissue building and repair. If your body goes to the bank, and a particular amino acid is overdrawn, or in such short supply that the required protein cannot be built, then your body's tissues begin to break down.

What Foods Contain Protein?
Protein in your diet can come from two sources:

animal products, such as milk, meat and eggs
plant products, suchas legumes, nuts and whole grains.
There is a major difference between these two protein sources however. Animal products contain 'complete proteins' and a single source will supply you with the essential nine amino acids. Plant proteins, on the other hand, are considered 'incomplete proteins,' as they are usually deficient in one or more of the nine. The notable exception to this is soy protein.
In order to get a complete protein from plant sources you need to combine different foods such that their proteins complement and make up for each other's shortages:

peanut butter on whole wheat bread
beans and rice
corn bread and baked beans
tofu and rice.
Incomplete proteins can also be complemented with the use of a small amount of animal protein like macaroni and cheese or milk and cereal. You need not eat complementary proteins at the same time, usually within the same day is enough.

How Much Protein Should You Eat a Day?
Your body can not 'bank' or save a significant amount of the amino acids, so it is important to eat some protein every day. But how much? The recommended protein intake for women is 44 grams a day and for men is 56. Please note: a typical American diet provides almost twice the necessary protein. There are no benefits, and some risks associated with eating too much protein.

What are the Risks of Too Much Protein?
It is important that you consume protein from a VARIETY of sources each day, and not from animal products only. If you get protein solely from animal sources, you risk endangering your heart and blood vessels from an over consumption of fat and cholesterol. Also, diets very high in protein increase the body's excretion of calcium, necessitating a higher intake of that mineral. Finally, too much protein can also cause dehydration, since water is pulled from the body to dilute the nitrogen waste from protein. What is left behind, after your body rids itself of the unnecessary nitrogen, becomes a source of calories. Each gram of protein supplies four calories. If your daily need for calories has been met, then these excess calories from protein will be stored as fat.

What Can You Do Instead of Getting Protein From Animal Sources Alone?
Try getting two thirds of your protein from plant sources, in order to reduce the risk of too much fat and cholesterol while simultaneously increasing your intake of fiber and, other important vitamins and minerals.

What are Some Suggested Foods and Their Protein Amounts?
Here's a list of protein amounts that are found in some foods:
3 ounces of cooked meat, fish or poultry- 21 grams
1/2 cup cooked legumes, dried peas or lentils - 7 grams
**(1/2 cup cooked beans = 1 oz meat)

1 large egg - 7 grams
1 cup milk - 8 grams
1/3 cup peanuts - 12 grams
1 slice of whole wheat bread - 3 grams
**Remember women are aiming for 44 grams of protein a day.


The Quick and Dirty Way To Figure Out How Much Protein You Need
An easy way to be sure you are getting enough protein each day is to follow the simple guideline of including two cups of skim milk or non-fat yogurt plus 3 ounces of lean meat or the equivalent. That amount, combined with the incidental amounts of protein you get from other sources, such as whole grains and vegetables, will meet your need of approximately 44 grams of daily protein.

Summary
Your body's first priority of operation is to meet its energy needs. If you don't eat enough fat and carbohydrate to meet your energy needs your body will begin to break down protein from food or from body tissues. Getting enough energy every day in the form of carbohydrates or fat will spare protein for the work it does best. If you eat more protein than you need for tissue building or to meet energy demands, the surplus is stored as fat.

Tip to Remember:
Proteins are for building and repair. Emphasize plant proteins. You are aiming for 44 grams of protein a day.

What do you guys think. 56gms of protein/day seems a bit low to me. Shit I get 52gms in just my shake alone.


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Deppnade

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posted April 02, 2001 03:58 PM

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and go figure i get around 4-500 a day, and i feel fine

------------------

"GOD MADE STEROIDS, STEROIDS MADE GODS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
[email protected]


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Frackal

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posted April 02, 2001 04:10 PM

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IMO "nutritionists" are infamous for misinformation. Next she'll probably tell you to follow the food pyramid.


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Frackal

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posted April 02, 2001 04:12 PM

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Also, I'm more inclined to trust the anecdotal evidence of 1000's of bodybuilders, not to mention the fact that because of protein's thermogenic properties during digestion, it is the least-likely macronutrient to be stored as fat.


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Stew Meat

Elite Bodybuilder

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From:Louisiana
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posted April 02, 2001 04:16 PM

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Eat more chicken


-Stew


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TxLonghorn

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posted April 02, 2001 04:20 PM

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Well, there are a couple of points here. 1)These same people will tell you that you too can look just like Arnold without the use of anabolics, it will just take you longer. And 2) What do these people look like? I mean if some guy who weighs 160 pounds sopping wet tells me that anything over 56 grams of protein/day is wasted...well, you get the idea.

Hell, if you want to do some research on your own, I suggest reading studies done by Dr. Lemon.


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gomo

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posted April 02, 2001 04:20 PM

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Decide how much protein you need or want and then you decide if powders are necessary. If you find it impossible to get 300 grams of protein a day without powders, then they are necessary. If you can eat 400 grams a day in a whole food manner, then tpowders are unnecessary. Nutritionist often fail to take into account the extraordinary needs of some of us. Not always.... but sometimes. Powders are for specific amino acid profiles and convenience.


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Wfabrizio

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posted April 02, 2001 04:21 PM

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Nutritionists, schools, etc. are using mostly antiquated sources of information regarding protein. Even though the supplement companies benefit from increased sales of their products, and therefore will produce positive info regarding their products....they are still light years ahead of anyone else in the field of protein, creatine, etc. research.

I would love to see a third party source from outside the industry complete a thorough study involving weight trainers using AS and without.

When you use AS and by doing so increase protein utilization, how does it not make sense to significantly bump up your protein consumption? That's the whole point. So, yeah, maybe 54 grams of protein per day would suffice some 120lb person performing light weight training. But anyone performing heavy weight training, and especially if using AS, needs to have highly increased protein intake.

Why is this an issue?

------------------
"It feels good to lead the pack."


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Will B.Huge

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posted April 02, 2001 04:22 PM

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Most BodyBuilders are bigger than nutritionists.
Will


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entropy01

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posted April 02, 2001 06:16 PM

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The last thing you have to worry about is storing protein as fat. If not used most amino acids will be excreted.

RDA's are minimums to not slip into a disease process, you know, like minimum needed for survival. If you want to grow, you need the protein.


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Mask

Amateur Bodybuilder

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From:Austin, Texas
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posted April 02, 2001 06:27 PM

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Entropy, you're wrong. Excess Amino Acids will turn to glucose and store as fat. Go ahead and eat 10,000 kcal of tuna and tell me if you're going to "excrete" those shit.

Protein, Fats, and Carbs, no matter what the hell they are, they are calories. If you overeat them then they'll store as fat.

[This message has been edited by Mask (edited April 02, 2001).]


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BSmooth

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posted April 02, 2001 06:28 PM

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Getting fat from protein is the last thing to worry about. First off, 25% of calories are lost in digestion alone. Then the majority of excess aminos are just converted to carbon skeletons and removed as waste.


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KHawk

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posted April 02, 2001 06:42 PM

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I'll weigh in here on one thing, most of the recommended guidelines for consumption of macronutrients was compiled by the United States government in the 1920's. Furthermore, this so-called "RDA' is actually the bare minimum, and is a broad-based mean from a variety of people...this means it is a minimum requirement of the average from various people distributed across the population, including senior citizens, children, women, etc. Just a frack and fabrizio allude to, it is the same as the stupid-a#@ food pyramid with its 6-10 servings of whole grains...yeah, great idea. Finally, as others before have mentioned, anecdotal evidence from 1000's of bodybuilders seems to have more potential from a strictly qualitative standpoint than antiquated data with little recent support. Watch and listen your own body, you should be able to determine if 200 g of protein a day are making you fatter, or go take "a pooh" 17 times a day.
Hawk


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Zeke_B

Pro Bodybuilder

Posts: 339
From:
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posted April 02, 2001 06:49 PM

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quote:
Originally posted by Will B.Huge:
Most BodyBuilders are bigger than nutritionists.
Will


LOL. While not scientifically valid, if
lots of protein wasn't required to grow,
wouldn't you think at least one bb would
say, "I'm getting huge on .5g per lb of
bodyweight." If there was any validity,
someone would jump on it just to be
saying something different. Literally
100% recommend lots of protein.


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luv2shrug

Amateur Bodybuilder

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From:
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posted April 02, 2001 06:55 PM

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How old is this book worm? i bet she's still in agreement with the doctor's from the 60's who said, steroids don't work. She's probably never touched a weight or ran around the block. Athletes need more protein. There's plenty of research to back this up. If you're worried about fat, protein shakes can actually help. Think about it, to get 40-50g of protein from food sources you're looking at taking in an extremely high amount of fat and calories, while shakes offer the same amount with less calories, fat, sodium, etc.
Fuck ignorant "nutritionists!!"

------------------
"One-arm slam you like Nikolai Volkof." - Redman


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ryker77

Pro Bodybuilder

Posts: 345
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posted April 02, 2001 07:05 PM

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How is it that doctors go to school to learn the humanbody yet they know very little about building muscle? And the little that they do know comes form a book that some 50 yearold fat guy..

..


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roadruler

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posted April 03, 2001 11:32 AM

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My professor is about 50 years old and weighs probably 100lbs. She is a skinny fuck. But I don't think that means anything. Just because she's skinny dosen't mean she dosen't have the knowledge. Or just because someone's fat doesn't mean they don't know thier shit, maybe their just lazy and don't use thier knowledge to good use. Plus just because some bodybuilder is big and tells you to eat 500gms of protein a day doesn't mean they know their stuff. He probably heard some other dumbass say it and is just repeating it. The only reason why he's big is because he juices all the time(not that there's anything wrong with that

Anyway shit like this pisses me off because there is so much contradictory information out there, who knows what to believe. I agree with all of you though, 56gms/day is not sufficient for a bodybuilder.


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natural-mike

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posted April 03, 2001 11:37 AM

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Any way you look at it, we all must accept the fact that we need more than the usual, or more than the "RDA" suggested amount. All those amounts are standard for the average person, who does average activities through oout the day. We beat on our bodies week after week, we need extra vitamins, extra food, extra water, extra rest etc. you got my point. I think its safe to say 1 pound of protein per body weight wont kill you.

Peace,
Natty Mike


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ASUwrestler

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From:go fuck yourself
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posted April 03, 2001 11:50 AM

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So what are you saying that we should not take protein drinks. I am sorry bro but if you are on deca or something like that you need all the protein you can get.

------------------


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ironbarbarian

Elite Bodybuilder

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From:THE DEEP DARK HELL!
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posted April 03, 2001 11:54 AM

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quote:
Originally posted by roadruler:
I've been taking a nutrition course at my university and my professor said that protien shakes/supplements are a waste of time and money. If you eat pretty good throughout the day your body gets enough gms of protein even if you lift weights. In fact she also said that if you consume too much protein your body will store it as fat. So I wanted a second opinion and I asked another nutritionist that I know and he agreed with her. So I was going to ask you guys what you thought and then I come along this article today at my yahoo home page:

Understanding Protein
by Sue Gilbert, M.S., Nutritionist
Not counting water, protein makes up three quarters of your body and is found in every cell. Your muscles, organs, some hormones, and certain antibodies and enzymes are all made up of protein. No wonder this incredible substance was named from the Greek root meaning 'of first importance.'


What is Protein?
Proteins are complex compounds that are made up of smaller compounds called amino acids. There are twenty different amino acids that can be combined in an infinite number of ways to make up all the thousands of different proteins your body needs. Of these twenty amino acids, your body can manufacture eleven. The other nine must be supplied by your diet and are therefore called 'the essential amino acids.'

How Does Your Body Use Protein?
When you consume protein, your digestive system will break it down into its component amino acids. These amino acids go into an amino acid 'bank' that your body can draw from to put together the proteins that it needs for tissue building and repair. If your body goes to the bank, and a particular amino acid is overdrawn, or in such short supply that the required protein cannot be built, then your body's tissues begin to break down.

What Foods Contain Protein?
Protein in your diet can come from two sources:

animal products, such as milk, meat and eggs
plant products, suchas legumes, nuts and whole grains.
There is a major difference between these two protein sources however. Animal products contain 'complete proteins' and a single source will supply you with the essential nine amino acids. Plant proteins, on the other hand, are considered 'incomplete proteins,' as they are usually deficient in one or more of the nine. The notable exception to this is soy protein.
In order to get a complete protein from plant sources you need to combine different foods such that their proteins complement and make up for each other's shortages:

peanut butter on whole wheat bread
beans and rice
corn bread and baked beans
tofu and rice.
Incomplete proteins can also be complemented with the use of a small amount of animal protein like macaroni and cheese or milk and cereal. You need not eat complementary proteins at the same time, usually within the same day is enough.

How Much Protein Should You Eat a Day?
Your body can not 'bank' or save a significant amount of the amino acids, so it is important to eat some protein every day. But how much? The recommended protein intake for women is 44 grams a day and for men is 56. Please note: a typical American diet provides almost twice the necessary protein. There are no benefits, and some risks associated with eating too much protein.

What are the Risks of Too Much Protein?
It is important that you consume protein from a VARIETY of sources each day, and not from animal products only. If you get protein solely from animal sources, you risk endangering your heart and blood vessels from an over consumption of fat and cholesterol. Also, diets very high in protein increase the body's excretion of calcium, necessitating a higher intake of that mineral. Finally, too much protein can also cause dehydration, since water is pulled from the body to dilute the nitrogen waste from protein. What is left behind, after your body rids itself of the unnecessary nitrogen, becomes a source of calories. Each gram of protein supplies four calories. If your daily need for calories has been met, then these excess calories from protein will be stored as fat.

What Can You Do Instead of Getting Protein From Animal Sources Alone?
Try getting two thirds of your protein from plant sources, in order to reduce the risk of too much fat and cholesterol while simultaneously increasing your intake of fiber and, other important vitamins and minerals.

What are Some Suggested Foods and Their Protein Amounts?
Here's a list of protein amounts that are found in some foods:
3 ounces of cooked meat, fish or poultry- 21 grams
1/2 cup cooked legumes, dried peas or lentils - 7 grams
**(1/2 cup cooked beans = 1 oz meat)

1 large egg - 7 grams
1 cup milk - 8 grams
1/3 cup peanuts - 12 grams
1 slice of whole wheat bread - 3 grams
**Remember women are aiming for 44 grams of protein a day.


The Quick and Dirty Way To Figure Out How Much Protein You Need
An easy way to be sure you are getting enough protein each day is to follow the simple guideline of including two cups of skim milk or non-fat yogurt plus 3 ounces of lean meat or the equivalent. That amount, combined with the incidental amounts of protein you get from other sources, such as whole grains and vegetables, will meet your need of approximately 44 grams of daily protein.

Summary
Your body's first priority of operation is to meet its energy needs. If you don't eat enough fat and carbohydrate to meet your energy needs your body will begin to break down protein from food or from body tissues. Getting enough energy every day in the form of carbohydrates or fat will spare protein for the work it does best. If you eat more protein than you need for tissue building or to meet energy demands, the surplus is stored as fat.

Tip to Remember:
Proteins are for building and repair. Emphasize plant proteins. You are aiming for 44 grams of protein a day.

What do you guys think. 56gms of protein/day seems a bit low to me. Shit I get 52gms in just my shake alone.


THAT IS FUCKIN BULLSHIT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! FUCK YOUR TEACHER SERIOUSLY SHE DOSENT NO A JACK-SHIT!!!!!!!!

IT IS CLINICALLY PROVEN THAT WEIGHT TRAINING ATHLETES NEED AT LEAST 1 GRAM PER POUND OF BODY WEIGHT FOR BUILDING MUSCLE. `ONE QUESTION DOES YOUR TEACHER LIFT????? OR SHE DOES ONLY AEROBICS???? FUCK HER IN THE ASS!!!!!!!! DONT LISTEN TO HER, I LEARNED THE HARD WAY THAT, MORE PROTEIN = MORE MUSCLE.... PERIOD.


------------------

I am Conan, the Ironbarbarian back from the deep dark hell!


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plifter

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posted April 03, 2001 12:27 PM

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I still don't think mega doses of 400 or 500 grams a day are necessary. Protein CAN BE stored as fat. I consume about 120 grams a day and I have no problem growing.


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pittbull2

Elite Bodybuilder

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From:Louisiana
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posted April 03, 2001 12:32 PM

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I have to have my protien if i don't its harder to mantain weight.


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roadruler

Pro Bodybuilder

Posts: 300
From:
Registered: Feb 2000

posted April 03, 2001 01:14 PM

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IronB, How do you know its clinically proven?
I wouldn't fuck her with a 10 foot pole.lol


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DrSuperSaint

Amateur Bodybuilder

Posts: 68
From:Midwest USA
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posted April 03, 2001 06:09 PM

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Mask please explain to me how a nitrogenous base can convert into a glucose molecule?! I would really like to know


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Tomo

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posted April 03, 2001 06:20 PM

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another issue to consider is how much protein to consume at one time- i think many consume to much at one time- i like to stick to around 30 grams at a time. i think the body has trouble digesting or using more than that. at 300 grams a day thats 10 meals a day. no one has time for that- i break mine down to 6 or 7 meals at 200 grams a day-tomo


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LittleSavage34

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posted April 03, 2001 06:29 PM

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You have to do what works for you. Sure, if you're a long distance runner, you don't need a lot of protein. Most of these trainers knowledge comes from theory, not practical life applications. They need to try shit before discouraging others.


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DrSuperSaint

Amateur Bodybuilder

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posted April 03, 2001 06:34 PM

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I believe the body can properly allocate around 50-55 grams of protein every 2 hours, if properly hydrated.


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rookiegearhead

Amateur Bodybuilder

Posts: 96
From:Downers Grove, IL USA
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posted April 03, 2001 06:50 PM

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I call bullshit.


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Mask

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From:Austin, Texas
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posted April 03, 2001 07:41 PM

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Again, to anyone who have this notion that protein can't be converted to glucose and then stored as fat - look up the term GLUCONEOGENESIS.

Proteins are calories and they can be stored as fat - period.


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rookiegearhead

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From:Downers Grove, IL USA
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posted April 03, 2001 08:47 PM

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No shit Mask, but to suggest that any in excess of 56 turns to fat is ludicrous.


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jersey boy

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posted April 03, 2001 09:12 PM

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The only protein she knows about is mine between her legs.


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roadruler

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posted April 03, 2001 11:36 PM

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hehehehehe..LOL jersey boy
I believe all of you, but does anyone have actual proof that bodybuilders need about 1.5gms of protien per body weight. It makes sense to me, but I never read actual facts about it.


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DrSuperSaint

Amateur Bodybuilder

Posts: 68
From:Midwest USA
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posted April 03, 2001 11:47 PM

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Mask, thank you for bringing up, Gluconeogenesis. After reading about it at: http://web.indstate.edu/thcme/mwking/gluconeogenesis.html

I must admit you are correct about such a conversion.


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