posted April 06, 2000 06:29 PM            

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Suffering is virtue. Progress is pain.
Anything less than a stoic lust for this philosophy will leave you short of your ultimate potential.

posted April 06, 2000 08:26 PM            

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Suffering is virtue. Progress is pain.
Anything less than a stoic lust for this philosophy will leave you short of your ultimate potential.

posted April 06, 2000 09:07 PM            

The gentleman's name is Bill Llewellyn

Blond's originall post

I was reading a Borreson interveiw at T-mag and these was some of his conclusions. It makes sense!

"Winstrol is a very potent tissue-building drug in the truest sense! As far as effectiveness in building muscle, 50 mg of Winny tabs will blow 50 mg of Anadrol right out of the water!"

"Anadrol is a shit drug. The fact that it's a 50-mg tablet tells you how weak it is."

"It's so obvious. Anadrol is designed to correct anemia. It builds red blood cells. It does not build muscle."

"People have so much of this stuff wrong. They think that Primo's weak, when it's actually very strong. They say that Anadrol is powerful, when it's actually very weak. Cypionate is more popular than enanthate, but the enanthate is terrific and cyp is crap. They draw conclusions without really understanding basic pharmacology. People should be using the finer, sophisticated drugs like Primo and Winstrol, not cypionates and the veterinarian products. It's so absurd!"

Llewellyn

Didn't read the article but there are a couple of small things to point out with this reasoning:

>>"Anadrol is a shit drug. The fact that it's a 50-mg tablet tells you how weak it is."

This doesn't really prove anything at all. For it's intended use high dose androgen therapy is indicated.

>> "It's so obvious. Anadrol is designed to correct anemia. It builds red blood cells. It does not build muscle."

Increased Red Blood cell production is a result of androgen receptor stimulation in the kidneys. This effect (present in all anabolic/androgenic steroids) supports the strength of oxymetholone as an agonist of the AR.

>> Cypionate is more popular than enanthate, but the enanthate is terrific and cyp is crap. They draw conclusions without really understanding basic pharmacology.

cyp and enanthate are virtually identical. Both release the hormone testosterone (the ester is discarded), there is really no difference at all.

Personally I like winstrol, as there is no estrogen to deal with and it is a solid anabolic. But bottom line comparison, you can't beat Anadrol for mass. Just my .02

Board Participant

Are You guy with book??????? like actual guy?
Who are YOU??? Like that's cool if you wrote book.......what's your backround???? Bill L. a pseudo-name? Many might be interested to hear if that is you---the guy with book.

Llewellyn

Yes, I put together anabolics2000. I usually post (not extrememly active though) under the name moonface. Some guys might recognize it. Llewellyn is my real last name. Not much point trying to hide my identity I guess if I am writing books. Just thought I had enough years of experience to put what I know to paper. I think you will like the book, but judge for yourself. Ships very soon!

Blond

Does Anadrol aromatize to estrogen?

I found this at QFAC and I had never heard this theory.. Your thoughs

Duchain...

Lately, I must admit that Roberts is beginning to theorize into valid applications. He was the first to point out that Anadrol 50 does not appreciably aromatize to estrogen, a long-held belief because the rampant gynecomastia seen in its users. His hypothesis is that Anadrol 50 has cross-reactance with progesterone receptors, similar to mibolerone (Checque drops). This would explain a number of side effects from Anadrol. The gyno can be caused by too much progesterone in men. The down-regulation of natural testosterone secretion is also affected by progesterone. Progesterone causes insulin resistance, that will cause an increase of appetite and an acceleration of bodyfat. For example, synthetic progesterone, Megace, is used in wasting-syndrome victims for weight gain. It is mostly fat-gain, though.

It is one of my postulations is that such steroids that cause progesterone effects are valuable for fat loss while on low calories. If you can resist the increase of appetite, progesterone can be thermogenic (from its uncoupling action on cells), and insulin resistance is beneficial for using fatty acids as a primary fuel source. Both growth hormone and ephedrine cause a slight insulin resistance, both favoring fat burning.

Roberts has also proposed that Winstrol (stanazol) might be acting as a weak progesterone antagonist, and that this explains why Winstrol users claim a fat and water loss from it. Roberts has proposed a stacking of Anadrol 50 with Winstrol, to negate the progesterone effects. And I think that this is a bona-fide advancement of practical steroid use. I hope that Roberts continues his creative postulations, because we need such advancement.

Llewellyn

No, by 's structure (DHT based) aromatization just does not appear possible. But we do have gyno to deal with so there must be a cause.

Just for starters mibolerone (7,17 dimethyl nandrolone) does aromatize. I am not sure where the belief it does not came from, but it certainly does just as can its base nandrolone. Mibolerone does however still have progestin-like activity, simlar to nandrolone. But that aside, on to the A-50 estrogen problem.

I have read the study demonstrating Winstrol's slight activity as an anti-progestin. This is intersting, but certainly in practice does not act as a counter to gyno when taking Anadrol. Just doesn't work, at least not to any noticable degree that I can recall. I spoke with one guy recently who noted the onset of gyno with only 1 anadrol daily, stacked with 50mg daily injectable winstrol. He quickly dropped the a50. Perhaps we need to try a specific anti-progestin or this is not the root of the cause. I think the latter is true. In my mind the problem is too strongly estrogenic to be tied to the progesterone receptor. I could be wrong. BTW, I think the fat/water loss with winstrol is more simply caused by a shift in androgen/estrogen ratio.

If a metabolite aromatizes it would most likely be methyltestosterone (a small byproduct of oxymetholone). But this seems insignificant in the face of the strong problem we see with anadrol.

THis really leaves only direct estrogenic activity (anadrol or a primary metabolite having an unusually strong affinity for the estrogen receptor itself) or slowed metabolic breakdown of estrogens as likely causes. Unfortunately I don't have a study to point to with a definite answer. It has me curious, perhaps it is a combination of a couple of things. But clearly it exhists.

Blond

Interesting....and what of Duchains postulation that steroids that cause progesterone effects are valuable for fat loss while on low calories?

Llewellyn

Dan's arguments do seem to make a lot of sense. Honestly I havent investigated this in much depth as there is little research to be found specific to this. We know of cross-receptor (AR/PR) activity with many steroids, but I would like to see more regarding the magnitude of progestin-like activity of various compounds and effects specifically related to this property. I doubt there is much call for such studies though. It seems worthy of further looking in to for sure; and it's sad that we will not have a follup from DAN with his recent passing. He'd probably have a lot more to say about this.

PEACE OUT