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  Laying to rest the seeming abundant confusion over Clomid and Gonandotropin.

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Author Topic:   Laying to rest the seeming abundant confusion over Clomid and Gonandotropin.
Twisted_Steel

Elite Bodybuilder

Posts: 1222
From:
Registered: Apr 2000

posted March 27, 2001 09:45 AM

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Im not certain what the confusion is all about, but allow me to illustrate my findings behind the use of these two drugs.

Clomiphene Citrate (Clomid) is not a steroid, but a synthetic estrogen proscribed to stimulate ovulation in women. Its primary purpose within the school of bodybuilding is to restore hypothalamohypophysial testicular axis (HPTA).

As we have all learned H-P-T-A function is suppressed through the use of exogenous androgens . Failure to restore H-P-T-A function can result in post cycle muscular atrophy (PCMA).

Clomid does not mimic Lutenizing hormone (LH) nor does it mimic Follicle Stimulating Hormone (FSH), it simply induces their production, which in turn stimulates the leydig cells within the testies to begin the production of endogenous testosterone.

Now, of utmost importance to bodybuilders is proper clomid timing. Obviously beginning 7-14 days of clomiphene therapy the last day of 500mg injection of sustanon would be a wasted endeavor since elevated blood androgen levels will still be present due in part to the deaconate ester in sustanon.

Therefore, all of us must in good reason estimate the half-life/bioavailability of those hormones we administer in order to ensure that once LH/FSH production is began endogenously it doesn't become resuppressed once clomid ceases.


Chorionic Gonadogropin is NOT A STEROID it is protein produced within the placenta of pregnant women. Gonadotropin is produced from the urine of pregnant women. It is generally proscribed to men who are incapable of producing a sufficient level of LH. (Hypogonadicism) sp?

Gonadotropin is indeed used amongst men and women alike, but for completely different reasons. In women it is used during the third trimester of pregnancy during the last development of the ovum. Amongst men it�s used once again to bring about the production of testosterone.

GONADOTROPIN mimics the effects of Lutenizing hormone. Therefore, its effects on the production are immediate because the biological process of inducing the production of LH (clomid) is omitted entirely.

THE SINGLE MOST EFFECTIVE MEANS BY WHICH TO RESTORE H-P-T-A function is through the effective combination of both drugs. In most cases clomid alone will suffice, in most case *** alone will not suffice because it only mimics the effects of LH, which is not enough for permanent restoration of HPTA.

PEACE


------------------
215LBS of Twisted Steel and Pure Sex Appeal!

[This message has been edited by Twisted_Steel (edited March 27, 2001).]


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The Shadow

Elite Bodybuilder

Posts: 1470
From:Georgia
Registered: Oct 2000

posted March 27, 2001 10:15 AM

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quote:

CClomiphene Citrate (Clomid) is not a steroid, but a synthetic estrogen proscribed to stimulate ovulation in women.
[/B]


Thank you sir. I posted my opinion on this subject as to Clomid being an Estrogen and I got laughed off the boaed.

------------------
Every morning in Africa, a gazelle wakes up. It realizes that it must run faster than the fastest lion or it will be killed.
Every morning in Africa, a lion wakes up. It realizes that it must run faster than the slowest gazelle, or it will starve to death.

The moral?

It doesn't matter whether you are a lion or a gazelle, when the sun comes up - you had better be running.


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BruZer

Amateur Bodybuilder

Posts: 155
From:From within the Chalky Realm
Registered: Feb 2001

posted March 27, 2001 10:25 AM

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Ah Yessssss.........Stelllllllllllle....you again amaze me with the research and clarification on such matters...

BZR


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panerai

Elite Bodybuilder

Posts: 692
From:usa
Registered: Nov 2000

posted March 27, 2001 10:55 AM

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Twisted, who knows, may be Clomid does just merely mimik LH and Animal is correct?
Doesn't mean, of course, that we should stop using it postcycle, but may be using other agents, like he suggested will make recovery faster?


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Twisted_Steel

Elite Bodybuilder

Posts: 1222
From:
Registered: Apr 2000

posted March 27, 2001 11:02 AM

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I probably dont have the background in pharmacology that many of the better educated members do, hell I have no background in it. But, if clomiphene did what you propose then clomid and gonadotropin would be used interchangebly at every longevity clinque in the world.

As far as my research and understanding goes the effects of these two drugs are precise and are not to be confused. One stimulates one mimics.

------------------
215LBS of Twisted Steel and Pure Sex Appeal!


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panerai

Elite Bodybuilder

Posts: 692
From:usa
Registered: Nov 2000

posted March 27, 2001 11:23 AM

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I'm not pretending that I have any degree or even extensive knowledge, but practical application of Clomid is very interesting for me,for obvious reasons.
I'm just trying to get to the bottom of the problem, to know, what is better for me to do.
Just another day, reading through http://www.directweb.net/steroids/ discussion board, I found this statement, by Dr.Mark(really don't know his credibility,just passing information alone,don't kill the messanger!):
--------------------------------------------
Clomid does not stimulate the hypothalamus. Ultimately the brain will have to decide when you truly recover the natural production of testosterone. And you cant begin a new cycle until you have fully recovered.

Clomid delays the ultimate recovery at the brain (hypothalamus). Neurotransmitters carry signals to the hypothalamus telling it whats going on. We call this the suprahypothalamic level of stimulation. If you can stimulate the hypothalamus, then you are truly getting to the root of the problem.

I have a whole section about suprahypothalamic stimulation in the physicians text: Anabolic Strategies and Treatment Applications
--------------------------------------------
Overall, reading the board, it gave me impression,that Dr.Mark knows what he is talking about,that's why I don't want to just brush away that statement and would like to find some actual studies and facts.


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