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 Anabolic Discussion Board
 Clomid... How long after Enanthate?
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| Author | Topic: Clomid... How long after Enanthate? | ||
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Cool Novice 
Posts: 30 |
Finishing up a cutting cycle in a week or so. Tapering off Anadrol right now, taking my last tapered down shot of enanthate the end of next week. How long after the last enanthate injection should I start the clomid? I plan to go 300mg first day, 100mg ed thereafter for two weeks, then down to 50 mg.     | ||
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Pro Bodybuilder 
Posts: 396 |
10-14 days. | ||
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Elite Bodybuilder 
Posts: 691 |
10-12 days
[This message has been edited by Stew Meat (edited March 24, 2001).] | ||
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Cool Novice
Posts: 29 |
stew I loved the graph I think that is one of my favorite posts ever. you are the man. I would probably start the clomid 8-10 days if it were me | ||
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Cool Novice
Posts: 30 |
Thanks for the responses everyone. It sounds like about 10 days and I can't go wrong. Stew Meat, that graph is quite helpful, however it raises yet another question. Why does everyone say enanthate takes so long to start acting in the body? I've read claims as long as two weeks. It just doesn't make sense. It seems it should be active as soon as it enters the blood stream. This is unrelated, I know. I just thought of that when I saw the graph. Anyway, thanks again. [This message has been edited by Jafar (edited March 25, 2001).] | ||
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Elite Bodybuilder
Posts: 691 |
The graph was from an actual resarch study. If you started on day 8 after your last Enth. inj., there would still be an androgen level that is 20% higher than normal. With the hypothalamus monitoring androgen levels, any androgen level above baseline will inhibit the release of LHRH which is indirectly responsible for the production of testosterone by the testicles. Clomid will bind to the estrogen receptors in the pituatary which, in the absence of androgens (or with androgen levels below baseline), will cause the production of LHRH wich signals for the release of LH which signals the leydig cells to produce androgens. The reason that Clomid works like this is because males have no way to produce estrogen. Estrogen is only produced by the aromitization of testosterone to estradiol. When you block the estrogen receptors in the pituatary with clomid, the message is sent that estrogen levels are extremely low (estrogen has several detremental functions in the male body) so the pituatary will release hormones that will cause an increase in testosterone so some can aromitise into estrogen. But, this will not take place if the level of testosterone (androgens) is at baseline. This is known as a feedback mechanism. There is usually a high level of estrogen at the end of a cycle. The high level of estrogen could inhibit the release of testosterone in order to prevent any additional aromitazation of it into estrogen in a regulatory fashion. This is why clomid is so beneficial post cycle, but only when there is NO androgen level above baseline. Using Clomid prematurely can decrease its effectiveness when it is needed as well as a few other negative consequences that I will not address for sake of time and is also a clear and uncalled for waste of money.
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Cool Novice
Posts: 30 |
So in other words, better to take it later rather than to soon. So the lower the androgen level the better it works? Okay, that makes sense, however my last enanthate injection will be only 100mg, for as I mentioned, I am tapering down. Does this effect the equation? Or is it still just a matter of the ester running its course, regardless of dosage? Also, this "baseline" mentioned, is that the nominal androgen level the hypothalamus would ordinarily detect during non-steroid use? What it was used to having in the body prior to drug use? One's normal, natural test level? Or an emergency "To Low, Make More" level? I just thought of something else, somewhat unrelated to my topic, but oh well. How does one raise this baseline? In other words, teach the body that a higher androgen level is actually normal and to not suppress LHRH at this new level. Does it happen naturally after using steroids and building more lean tissue than you previously had? Can you "Teach " your body to make MORE test when off cycle and not shut off production so quickly when on cycle? [This message has been edited by Jafar (edited March 25, 2001).] | ||
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Amateur Bodybuilder 
Posts: 230 |
Stew meat, you are the shit. There's another clomid discussion going on right now where primobolan bridging is thrown into the mix. I think it's "Clomid need some help" | ||
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Amateur Bodybuilder
Posts: 230 |
quote: Wouldn't filling the estrogen receptors with | ||
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Elite Bodybuilder
Posts: 691 |
quote: Clomid is not estrogen. ER's have an affinity for estrogen which is why some people call clomid a "weak" estrogen. Since it is not estrogen, it will occupy the same receptors that the regular estrogen would, but there would be no way to sense the real estrogen levels. I'll answer the rest later... gotta go.. I'm late. -Stew | ||
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Elite Bodybuilder
Posts: 691 |
quote:
-Stew | ||
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Elite Bodybuilder
Posts: 1049 |
#2 is much more likely. The test does get into your system and start working very quickly, but it takes time to see results in terms of added muscle. You should notice results in terms of increased libido quickly though. Another reason is that, following the most common injection schedules, the level of steroid in the serum will gradually increase with time. | ||
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Amateur Bodybuilder
Posts: 230 |
quote: Yeah, and if a man's only source of Estrogen | ||
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Elite Bodybuilder
Posts: 1049 |
quote: Zeke, The fact that a drug can occupy a receptor site without activating that receptor is quite common in pharmacology. These drugs are known as antagonists. Clomid has been defined as both an agonist (can act like a weak estrogen) and an antagonist (can block stronger estrogens) depending on the tissue on which it is acting. In the hypothalamus, it act largely as an antagonist, occupying the estrogen receptor without transcribing a signal. In short, clomid is what is known as a selective estrogen receptor modulator (SERM). | ||
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Cool Novice
Posts: 30 |
Thanks for the info, guys. Very informative. I now have a better understanding of both Enanthate and clomid. I decided to take the Enanthate due to the extremely short half life of Anadrol 50. By the way, Anadrol makes quite a cutting drug. I actually gained some lean mass while dieting rather radically (1800 Calories per day) |
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posted March 24, 2001 09:52 PM