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 Anabolic Discussion Board
 Theory on why you can't keep your gains without more roids
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| Author | Topic: Theory on why you can't keep your gains without more roids | ||
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Amateur Bodybuilder 
Posts: 115 |
From reading the old threads here this is what I came up with and I hope some of you can correct me on this and put more details in between. Your natural limit is your body's maximum muscle capacity that can maintain its mass (no net loss, no net gain) with regular high protein diet, regular workout routine, at your natural testosterone level with no roids Joe is 165 lbs and his natural limit is 200lbs. If he did roids and achieved 220 lbs, the theory is that he'll have to keep doing cycles in order to stay above 200 lbs. If he stopped, he'll loss mass but only up to his natural limit which is 200lbs (not at 165) because at homostatis, his body can maintain that mass naturally. Is this correct? I really can't see Joe holding on to 300lbs of mass without altering his test levels.     | ||
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Freak 
Posts: 2812 |
Is this the same Joe that was afraid to open his mail package? | ||
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Freak
Posts: 2108 |
I totally disagree. If you stop training and eat right, ofcource you are going to lose size and muscle tone. When I stop cycling, if I train, eat, and sleep right I will maintain 85% to 90% of my gains as long as I come off correctly. This is a way of life for most of us, not a quick fix. ------------------ "Catch a man a fish, he eats for a day. Teach a man to fish, and he eats for a lifetime." | ||
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Amateur Bodybuilder
Posts: 266 |
i think it is a question of how much muscle can be supported by the test you have floating around in your body. If you are using 500 mgs of test you can support more muscle than if you were kicking out your natural 35mg/day or whatever. | ||
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Amateur Bodybuilder
Posts: 73 |
I agree with those 5 star studs. I have been off for 7 months now, and have gained 10 pounds of muscle, and only five pounds of fat since. I am cruizin at about 280 to 285, and can finally start my next cycle, which will only be an eight weeker, followed by at least three mo. off. I have never had a problem with gaining, even off a cycle.?. | ||
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Freak
Posts: 2812 |
quote: homeostasis | ||
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Moderator
Posts: 5930 |
quote: LOL!!World reknowned guru Bill Roberts suggests that on average ,you can split the difference from your natural genetic limit,and what you were able to achieve on anabolics,and I have to agree.There are certain processes that have far reaching/permanent implications,even when you come off,such as permanent increases in A/R populations,satellite cells being brought in to the main frame and becoming full blown muscle cells,etc.... | ||
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Freak
Posts: 2639 |
quote: LOL!!!! is that the one that needed that valium...??? hahaha ------------------ | ||
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Amateur Bodybuilder
Posts: 115 |
Damn, you guys are like elephants - you never forget! Joe is pretty upset! | ||
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Freak
Posts: 2017 |
It's OK Joe, just open the package and pipe down. j/k | ||
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Cool Novice 
Posts: 12 |
bumb | ||
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Amateur Bodybuilder
Posts: 115 |
quote: Disagree. Are you telling me that if Joe, the 5'6" small frame guy grew to 250 lbs with gear, he would keep that weight even if he goes off roid completely but kept training hard and eat correctly? Highly unlikely. I think you'll shrink down to what your body can handle naturally no matter how hard you train. But Joe won't shrink back to 165 lbs, he'll shrink down to his maximum natural potential. Let's take Dorian Yates as an example. If he quit roids completely but trained hard as hell and on a good diet, do you think he'll stay that way? | ||
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Amateur Bodybuilder
Posts: 115 |
bump for our euro pals who just woke up. | ||
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Amateur Bodybuilder
Posts: 223 |
Say it ain't so Mask!!!!! I unfortunately agree. | ||
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Freak
Posts: 2108 |
Muscle memory. Why cant you keep your gains? Arent steriods used to break barriers and set new standards? I was 180lbs before I took any gear. I stopped for about 1 year I dropped from 220 back to 190 after I stopped, But I didnt do anything. I didnt train, I ate like shit, ect. I decided to start training again, naturally. I trained and ate like I should and got back to 221 naturally. Why did I get back there? Because the gear I took in the past set new standards for my physic. I cycled again and broke new barriers. I reached 235. I stopped cycling for 9 months. I kept training and eating right, with a few suppls here and there. I maintained 98% of those gains. Strength went down a little and muscle hardness decreased, but size I kept. I think once the body leans these new limits, you have a solid chance to keep them, IF you dedicate your self to this lifestlye. Now, if I stop this way of life and sit in front of the tv and eat like shit, my hard earned muscle will turn to mush and my size will slowly decrease. But I will NEVER go back to 190, Never. Maybe when I'm 60 ------------------ "Catch a man a fish, he eats for a day. Teach a man to fish, and he eats for a lifetime." | ||
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Pro Bodybuilder 
Posts: 536 |
YES YOU WILL KEEP YOUR GAINS UNLESS YOU INJECT AND DEPEND ON SHITLOADS OF GEAR LIKE THE PROS USE. ------------------ I am Conan, the Ironbarbarian back from the deep dark hell! | ||
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Amateur Bodybuilder
Posts: 115 |
I disagree Lawnsaver. Have you ever thought that maybe you haven't reached your natural limit yet? I'm using the Dorian Yates example, do you think Yates can keep even 80% of his gains without gear? When you inject test in your body, you are creating an artificial environment in which it can support the excess mass. Take away those elevated test and your muscle will shrink to how much your current test level can support. There's no freaking way a 300lbs monster can keep all that muscle without gear. He can eat 1000g of protein a day and train like hell, but he won't keep that 300lbs. This is why as your test level drops when you get old, you won't be able to hold on to as much mass as when you're 25 years old. | ||
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Pro Bodybuilder
Posts: 332 |
I sorta follow your theory Mask/Joe. But one has to remember that in todays society we are much lazier than our Grandparents. What I am saying is that our daily life style limits our body. We dont have to cut firewood, walk, do physical labor. Most of use just do the bare mimiumn execpt for that one hour we go to the gym. Id say their is a halfway point between: - unhealty limit - healthy limit - training lifestyle limit - gearlimit. All factors must be included.. | ||
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Freak
Posts: 2108 |
I dont think you can compare a large number of the people on this board to Yates. He has probably made 10 times the gains as anyone here. I am talking on a much lower scale than Yates. I think if I would do the thing he does and reach 325 lbs and then stop gear, yes I would lose a lot, but 100 lbs? How? Isnt muscle, muscle? I think I would lose some but since new barriers have set and broken the body wont reject it all. Look at Arnold, he isnt doing the gear he used to. He isnt small or the same size he was before he trained. I had no muscle tone or size until I was about 21. I believe I had some maturing to do, But I wasnt going to start growing muscle without doing anything. I see where you are coming from, but is Yates a medical or experimental doctor? This is his hypothesis or is stated by Doctors who have done research years ago. ------------------ "Catch a man a fish, he eats for a day. Teach a man to fish, and he eats for a lifetime." | ||
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Novice 
Posts: 1 |
All of you have forgoten ATROPHY(loss of muscle). You must first realize how and when this process begins.If Joe is 5'8 230, he has a caloric intake he needs to maintain. But if he is not lifting it will turn to fat. The weight will remain. If you burn more calories then you consume you will loose weight & vise versa. Now steroids provide an unstable environment for atrophy to occur in, because of the increase in nitrogen levels,etc. Once coming of steroids you have to train a muscle before atrophy begins. If you do this and maintain your caloric intake above what you burn, you will loose nothing. Even making gains are possible by eating more and avoiding atrophy. |
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posted March 24, 2001 11:39 AM