Why would anyone wanting to seek mass and strength would even consider this....is beyond me....Test should always be the base for a first time cycle/stack....it's what made us what we are, the sides are very well known and easily avoided with very inexpensive anti-estrogens. And now, with the advent of Armidex, the amount of test you can safely use per week in a cycle is limitless....

Deca is not the wonder drug most think....

Fact: Deca has the affinity to bind to, and activate the progest. recepters.

Fact: Deca dick is real, and can happen to anyone.

Fact: Deca is the most over priced, most often counterfited drug on the market.

Fact: Winny will not counter gyno from Deca in everyone.

Fact: Test is a natural hormone in our bodies(Deca is not)

Fact: Mg per Mg Test will outdue, and out gain Deca in any 8 week cycle.

If deca is a consideration for your next cycle/stack....choose EQ instead....Then, the only sides you need to combat, or consider is the aromatization into Estrogen. EQ aromatizes into a simple Estrogen, and is easily avoided, why would anyone try to counter two completely different sides for a stack is twice the money, and twice the heartache...Think Test/Dbol/EQ for your next cycle.....Think HUGE!!!!

quote:

---

Originally posted by BruZer:

Deca is not the wonder drug most think....

Fact: Deca has the affinity to bind to, and activate the progest. recepters.

Fact: Deca dick is real, and can happen to anyone.

Fact: Deca is the most over priced, most often counterfited drug on the market.

Fact: Winny will not counter gyno from Deca in everyone.

Fact: Test is a natural hormone in our bodies(Deca is not)

Fact: Mg per Mg Test will outdue, and out gain Deca in any 8 week cycle.

---

I would like to respectfully disagree.

Deca is by far the better of the two.

fact: You do not need high dosages of deca to get great gains

fact: You need to keep upping test to keep getting great gains.

fact: Test can bring on a host of serious side effects, the first being a prostate the size of a golf-ball!!!

fact: ru-486 is effective at preventing progesterone-induced sides.

fact: Winny will work in 99% of cases although I don't think Deca induces progesterone production.

fact: estrogen induced by test can cause female pattern fat tissue around the hips and sides that will never go away.

fact: Deca is easy on your hair, but test will make fall faster than a 90 year old woman on a patch of ice.

fact: Deca will provide more LBM per pound gained due to lower water retention.

fact: You will keep more of your gains after a deca cycle versus a test cycle.

I have more...

No. 1 RU-486 is not readily available in most countries...and when found...VERY expensive. Why even consider the chance?

No. 2 Are you quite serious that estrogenic fat deposites are there forever? I'm sure the women on the women's board would be delighted to hear your thoughts on this....fat tissue, is fat tissue....it can increase, as well as decrease....I would like to see fact based studies on this...not reports...

No 3 Deca will produce more LBM than test due to lower water....Nope! How much water is associated with the higher androgenic drugs? And once the water sheds, what do you have as a finished product? Compare the two then. And, you can lower water retention by adding Nolvadex to your cycles, or Armidex if it's available, and before you start, I already know it will suppress IGF-1 producion by a VERY small degree.

No 4 Hair falling out is the same as " Deca Dick " some will lose hair at very small dosages, others never lose a strand at a gram per week. Some get " Deca Dick " at 200mg's per week, others never experience a problem at 800mg's per week.

No 5 DECA WILL BIND TO, AND ACTIVATE THE PROGEST. RECEPTERS!

And before you start with the nolvadex will get rid of Deca induced gyno, Deca has some Androgenic qualities, and Nolva will help with this....if you have a full blown case of deca induced gyno....sorry Bro, but that's for life. Armidex will reduce existing gyno to the point of nullity. But, it's still there.

And lastly, where on earth did you dig up the 99% thoughts on deca and winny. Plus, didn't you state that deca doesn't cause progest. induced gyno? So why add winny, if there's not going to be a problem...

If your on Deca, and get Deca dick....what do you do.....Add test of course....Test always bails deca out, and when someone does a test/deca cycle, they think deca put on the mass and strength....WRONG!!!

It was the TEST, always has been....always will be!!!

Huck, where do you come up with this stuff.
What else do you do in your spare time??

------------------
" That which does not kill me, will make me stronger"

Heh heh heh

I know some of you fuckers can think for yourselves, and surely to God you can voice your own opinion....even if it's wrong....hahahahahahahahahahaha....!!!!!

And 2Thick, when I want your opinion.....I'll give it to you...

Game On...!!!

Before you bust RU-486 for being expensive and rare, then take arimidex off of your list because it is very expensive and hard to come by too.

Huck, unless you are looking to be a pro, then using for satellite cell stimulation is like buying a Ferrari to drive one block. Most people will not need all of those extra satellite cells.

Also, deca dick is temporary...losing your hair is permanent and it is a fact that extra test speeds up hairloss for everyone.

And not because 2Thick the mod said so....

BruZer,

Deca is better than EQ because it is first and foremost a human steroid.

Second it is a nadrolone and if you notice all of the Olympians are using it. At least all that are being caught are using it...LOL.

quote:

---

Originally posted by HUCKLEBERRY FINNaplex:
Hmmmm,now let's see all the ones that are getting CAUGHT are using it,that just confirms the type that use it to me,lol...

---

Hehehehehe, you are a quick one....

I mean can I simplify it any more than that?

all right

DECA is actually good(though not better than test) for most, but if you are among those who have experienced its negative effects- a group which has more members than some would like to admit- it is the equivalent of the anti-christ of AS.

DECA is by far the most suppressive AS, which is why it is used as male birth control in Australia and several other developed nations (test is the most widely used, because of the potential for loss of libido which in many cultures is, well, UNACCEPTABLE). Unfortunately for some the recovery from this suppression can be some months- in a limited # of cases even with clomid and hcg- DECA induced suppression of the HPTA has been documented up to 13 months after cessation of use.

DECA because of its progestenic binding has both physical and psychological dampening of sexual desire and arousal. Progesterone is extremely important in male sexual function because of its influence on the GABA system, which deca supplants by binding to those receptors, which is very important for sexual desire. In addition, this interference with the GABA system is in part responsible for the continued suppresion as dopamine is very important to HPTA regulation.

OK lets move on

Deca will produce more mass than EQ

WHY?

Because it will increase Intra-muscular fat
EQ will not
a little side note- DECA seems to be especially effective in africans(and by manner of descent african- americans), why is unknown but it would seem to be in part due to the fact that they store IM rather well and tend to have little Sub Q(which would not be advantageous in their evolutionary environment)-- I would like to hear any anecdotes from (black, not white settler)African or African-Americans who have used deca or anadrol.

there is a big movement to ban progestenic drugs for birth control by african american women who feel that drugs like norplant kill their sexdrive- sound familiar

TO call DECA a HUMAN steroid is really pushing it- while reduced nandralones exist in the human system they do so in very minute levels, with the exception of pregnant women. If you mean that it was designed for humans- SO WHAT. SO was anadrol but I never hear you (2thick) praising it.

arimidex and finasteride pretty much KILL all the side effects you FEAR- both of which are rather easy to obtain (and will become easier).

RU-486 is TOO powerful an anti-progestin to be used on a regular basis- I feel that it should only be used as an emergency measure should one encounter progestenic GYNO.

I STILL MAINTAIN THAT RU-486 IS NOT OBTAINABLE IN THE UK- nor anywhere - as not one person has posted a pic- even to brag.

RU-486 is an ABORTION drug, and for those of you who know what this means to many people (including those in power) to think that it will become readily available is foolish. But who knows maybe there will be a social revolution.

DECA has some benefits- also because of its progestenic nature- increased fluid retention in the joints.

Increased IM will make you bigger and NO ONE will actually realize you are fatter (though you may float better in water) its kinda like natural synthol.

Let me pose this simple question to recieve your all powerful thoughts...

RU-486 to a much more powerful degree than winny I might add, supresses cortisol production.....and with RU-486, it all but stops it...completely!!!

Before everyone jumps on the " This is what we've been waiting For " Bandwagon....

I personally think in the case of RU-486, and winny only cycles, this could pose a serious health threat....

I feel it would(and in the case of winny only cycles) cause greater injuries to the muscles, and you would see a vast increase in serious muscles tears and sprains...

What are you thoughts on this Macro...??? I think you have once again sent 2think to the study board, but I fear he shall return to sway the masses. But, this is just another point, or rather nail in the coffin of 2Thicks beloved Deca....heh heh heh...

Thanks Mac...!!!

This is yet another example of why we should do our research but still, NOBODY will now how you react to a certain AS untill you try it yourself. For some, deca might suck, for others, it's one of the best!

quote:

---

Originally posted by 2Thick:
Deca is by far the better of the two

Fact: Deca works mainly on the ar, test does much more than just this.

fact: You do not need high dosages of deca to get great gains

Fact: Nor do you need high doses of test to get great gains. 500mgs of test compared to 1000mgs of test, no problem. Now compare 500mgs of deca to 1000mgs of deca. Deca simply cannot be the base of most cycles, test can.

fact: You need to keep upping test to keep getting great gains.

Wrong, very wrong.

fact: Test can bring on a host of serious side effects, the first being a prostate the size of a golf-ball!!!

Fact: Test sides can mostly be counteracted with arimidex, proviron or nolva. Not so with deca. How many people have access to Ru 486?

fact: ru-486 is effective at preventing progesterone-induced sides.

Fact: As above

fact: Winny will work in 99% of cases although I don't think Deca induces progesterone production.

Please let mw know where you get this figure from.

fact: estrogen induced by test can cause female pattern fat tissue around the hips and sides that will never go away.

That is what anti estrogens are used for. I am pretty confident I could lose this fat should I ever gain it.

fact: Deca is easy on your hair, but test will make fall faster than a 90 year old woman on a patch of ice.

If you are prone to hair loss nothing will stop it, maybe test just might speed it up. Once again this can be countered.

fact: Deca will provide more LBM per pound gained due to lower water retention.

This is all dose dependant, you simply cannot compare 400mgs of deca to 400mgs of test.

fact: You will keep more of your gains after a deca cycle versus a test cycle.

Nope Nope Nope, if you prevent the water retention associated with test then gains will be LBM.

I have more...

Bring them on

Just admit that Deca/D-bol is the true road to freakiness!!

Not even on my death bed

Peace

---

------------------
Search Click here to save people headache

E2's Steroid Pictures Pictures of many different drugs.

AJC' Steroid Profiles Profiles of many different steroids

2Thick's Injection Procedures Site Complete with Pictures and Diagrams!

FACT:...You should do your own research...and yes, that is what this is about....TO MAKE YOU THINK!!!

FACT:...Look at the knowledge on this post, and use it to your advanatge...

FACT:....2Think is still researching...heh heh heh

Everyone reacts differently to Deca Bro....

And Luke.....Thanks Comrade....heh heh heh

quote:

---

Originally posted by Gord:
all I gotta say is I'm with 2THICK on this one. I've seen several people not gain anything except strength while on test but everyone I've seen on deca <even deca alone> have gained anywhere from 5-20 lbs in 8-14 weeks. They also kept the deca gains.The test gains including strength were gone after a couple months.

---

But I think he is saying to stack it with d-bol correct.... In most books such as the steriod bible they do say if you can't put on gains with Deca and D-bol you can't put on gains with anything ??? Oh fuck I love all gear....ha...

You got me off the chat board for this one.

Your email didn't work bro - I'm doing fine though....good to hear from you)

Macro about covered all the issues as he usually does....deca dick is real....test sides are manageable...I have all my hair, no gyno, etc.

What no one said is that test and deca work very well TOGETHER...a dbol/test/deca cycle is a guaranteed winner for the newbie.

It is just like you to walk the middle of the road

Huck,

There is no definite research to prove that Deca induces progesterone production. I know it is a progestin but there isn't an explicit connection there.

Iron Game, you are correct not to compare 400mg of test to 400mg of deca because the deca wins hands down.

Deca is by far the safer gear to use when it comes to possible sides. If you have a problem with libido slow down to the deca build-up then use a shorter nandrolone ester like durabolin and problem solved.

Also, you shouldn't really use more than 600mg of deca per week...ever...which keeps you within sane limits. Even the pros hardly ever go over 600mg/week (from what I have heard). This keeps you sane. There seems to be no limit on test even though the sides go up exponentially with the dosage.

Now I also this and that about water while on test, well Im here to point a little sump'n sump'n out to ya boys, your great strength gains you experience on test is largely due in part to holding water.The heavier you can lift, the more stimulus to the muscle fibers, the better your overall gains! Quit whining about it, if you dont know how to diet down a little water and a percent or two fat then do more research.

I drop about 5lbs right after I come off test and thats the most Ive ever lost of any gains (water)

Armidex is very easy to get ahold of and I see the prices dropping quickly on it, it seems every week, RU486 on the other hand NOTTA!!, Ive seen it listed once and for what they wanted I could have bought a months worth of winstrol.

It is not necessary to up your dosage of test every cycle, given the right amount of time off your receptors will react to it in the same fashion as the first time, although more than likely not as explosive.

Now, on a side not and its probably not real advisable but I know first hand the "healing" properties of deca, as I used a very low dosage of it in the rehab of my rotator cuff.

2Thick considering the suprression length of deca, I would say you should be eligable for sex (masturbation) in about 132.56yrs. :-)

Test is best...Test is king...there is no feeling quite like it...try both drugs on a single cycle apiece youll figure it out.

Peace,
WCP

quote:

---

Originally posted by WCP:
2Thick considering the suprression length of deca, I would say you should be eligable for sex (masturbation) in about 132.56yrs. :-)
Peace,
WCP

---

1. 200mg of RU-486 every 3 days will only
decrease cortisol levels slightly. This will actually increase your gains without being
detrimental to your health.
At this dosage , RU-486 is as effective in
combatting progesterone as Novaldex is in combatting estrogen.

2. You want the power of Arimidex.
No problemo. Take 200mg RU-486
every other day and you will block
damn near ALL PROGESTINS. The
drawback to this dosage is that it
decreases cortisol to unnaceptable
levels, and therefore the addition
of exogeneous cortisone is necessary.

Other benefits of Deca:

1. Will not accelerate hair loss.
2. Induces a GREATER NITROGEN
RETENTION EFFECT THAN TEST.
(Bet you didn't know that)
3. In doses of 600mg or less/week
Deca WILL GIVE MORE GAINS THAN TEST
FOR THE SAME TEST DOSAGE.
Dare anybody to dispute that.
You don't see guys on 600mg/week test
grow at the same rate as guys on
600mg/week of Deca.
4. You don't get bloated with Deca
and end up like the Goodyear Blimp
like you do with Test!!
5. Progestins are Lypolitic. Thats
right they burn fat. Test DOES NOT
HAVE THIS ABILITY. Why do you think
Fina is so effective at fat-burning?
ITS A PROGESTIN!!!!
6. Deca Dick is completely random,
and I'm willing to bet is based more
on environmental factors than from the
Deca itself.

Ok, got it all out.....LOL

Godspeed

And can I also say:

WHO CARES ABOUT SATELLITE CELLS!!!!
UNLESS YOU'RE A 300LB BEHEMOTH
THEY'RE IRRELEVANT!!!!

And you certainly do not impress me with your so called knowledge....it seems to me you have experienced quite alot of AS type experiments....BUT, then again....I did LOVE the post about the implant gun for fina....<wink>!!!!

Go bark up another tree little pup....the big dawgs are barking here....

I would like to ask about this in a new light. Obviously, test was there in the beginning, starting from Adam's nuts. Then they discovered how to isolate it and put in a vial, so it could be injected.

THEN they made deca.

But years ago deca was the injectable of choice, right? Arnold was all about deca and d-bol.

So now it's gone to "test is best." But hold on, surely people already had experimented with test BEFORE deca came out!

So what have we got here, a swinging pendulum of fashion? Or how was it that after deca's being the favorite, most of the people nowadays are preaching test?

quote:

---

Originally posted by BruZer:

Go bark up another tree little pup....the big dawgs are barking here....

BZR

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by 2Thick:

There is no definite research to prove that Deca induces progesterone production. I know it is a progestin but there isn't an explicit connection there.

---

Was wondering what you attribute my gyno from while on deca, test and dbol when using anti estrogens and having used both dbol and test before with no problems and also using test now at 1750mgs/week with no problems? Just curious what this is from buddy

quote:

---

It has also been shown that Nolvadex is effective in preventing gyno from nandrolone in some cases.

---

Which cases would these be? The ones where people who suffer no sides from deca are using it?

2Thick, although this is a hypothetical question, if you had to remain on 400mgs of test indefintely or 400mgs of deca which would you go for and why?

I would actually prefer the Deca to the Test. I like my prostate too much

Fonz,

There was an abstract that I had posted in one of those heated debates with E2 (several months back) that said something along the lines that Nolvadex was at least partially effective in preventing gyno from progesterone.

I honestly don't have the time to dig it back up, but I will do it if you would like me to.

I think Nolva will help with deca and the Androgenic qualities it has(though small at best)....and Fonz, the reason I ask, Macro was looking into RU-486 and this type study, since it is very new, and used for women, nothing has been looked at in depth reguarding who we, in the BB community would use it's given effects....

Since we are not sure, I would recommend Winny along wth the Deca.

------------------
"That Which Does Not Kill You Makes You Stronger"

The No B.S. Board.

quote:

---

Originally posted by 2Thick:
Iron Game,

I would actually prefer the Deca to the Test. I like my prostate too much

---