I think you'll be happier with the results though.

And the fact that Anavar is expensive as hell makes the decision even better.

quote:

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Originally posted by PsychoSkitz:
Winstrol will be harder on your liver so you should take Milk Thistle with it.

I think you'll be happier with the results though.

And the fact that Anavar is expensive as hell makes the decision even better.

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300 kleen

quote:

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Originally posted by 300kleen:
My vote goes for Anavar. It's a much more complex drug. If used correctly it can yeild amazing results.

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Kleen, I was just wondering what you consider to be using anavar "correctly" - was that a reference to training, dosage, duration? Thanks for the help.

quote:

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Originally posted by Mask:
Hey Myo-genetic, I got my uncle checking on Mercury Drugstore in Manila for Anavar and Oxandrolone, he said they couldn't find it in their computer. What brand name do they list under, do you know?

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Well there are two Japanesse versions of Oxandrolone, Vasorome by Kowas and Lonoavar by Dainippon. See: http://www.anabolicreview.com/drugprof.htm

Anavar is not hard on the liver.

quote:

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Originally posted by ho_moans:
Kleen, I was just wondering what you consider to be using anavar "correctly" - was that a reference to training, dosage, duration? Thanks for the help.

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In particular, I was referring to stacking, dosage, and the split in the daily consumption. But like I said before it is a very complex drug. It is one of the only steroids that has actually exhibited the capability to reduce visceral fat in scientific studies; the increase in endogenous GH production; increase in phosphocreatine synthesis; and the list goes on.

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300 kleen

quote:

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Originally posted by Fonz:
[QUOTE]Originally posted by PsychoSkitz:
[b]Winstrol will be harder on your liver so you should take Milk Thistle with it.

I think you'll be happier with the results though.

And the fact that Anavar is expensive as hell makes the decision even better.

---

quote:

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Wrong. Al 17-aa steroids have the same hepatoxic
effects mg for mg. The only difference between
the two(they are both cutting drugs) is that Anavar
is a lot more expensive than Winstrol.

Godspeed

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Wrong. Al 17-aa steroids do not have the same effect on the liver. Anavar has acutually been shown to IMPROVE liver function in controled studies.

-Stew

quote:

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Originally posted by PsychoSkitz:
FONZ, I beg to differ.

[b]Anavar is not hard on the liver.

Let's go back to the good old days in a post which was ulter and yours
https://www.elitefitness.com/ubb/Forum9/HTML/001718.html [/B]

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quote:

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Originally posted by Stew Meat:

Wrong. Al 17-aa steroids do not have the same effect on the liver. Anavar has acutually been shown to IMPROVE liver function in controled studies.

-Stew
[This message has been edited by Stew Meat (edited March 14, 2001).]

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However there seems to be an unresolved issue: are orals (dbol, winny tabs, anavar, etc) mg for mg equally toxic to the liver?

Fonz says yes, Stew says no

quote:

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Originally posted by ho_moans:
Good discussion!

However there seems to be an unresolved issue: are orals (dbol, winny tabs, anavar, etc) mg for mg equally toxic to the liver?

Fonz says yes, Stew says no

Anybody else have any views???

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quote:

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Originally posted by sv:

Here is an interesting study: http://www.medibolics.com/oxandrin2.htm

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quote:

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Originally posted by DellBear:
Could you throw T3 and clen in with anavar and winny and come up with a good cutting cycle?

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quote:

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Originally posted by Fonz:
[QUOTE]Originally posted by sv:
[b]
Here is an interesting study: http://www.medibolics.com/oxandrin2.htm

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Thank you very much. I proved my point.
Now lets just hope to god Ulter isn't
lurking about because he'll have a
fit when he sees that study again.......LOL

Godspeed[/B][/QUOTE]

I don't even know why I bother with this, but what you posted does not prove ANYTHING. Who the hell cares about what some dick made a speach about. WHAT YOU POSTED IS NOT DOCUMENTED RESEARCH. That was never published. It was a speach.

Not that ACTUAL research matters to YOU, Fonz, because you're such a guru (very sarcastic here with "guru" in case you didn't know) that you continually insinuate that you were born with a god given wisdom of steroids and that all research not done by you or blessed by you is not worthy of speech... but here is some ACTUAL RESEARCH that PROVES (not a bullshit speech by another dickface that couldn't back up his claims) that Oxandralone is not liver toxic in the same dosses that OTHER 17-aa are. With 80mg per day (!) it is still not liver toxic and actually AIDS in liver function:

A randomized, controlled trial of treatment of alcoholic hepatitis with parenteral nutrition and oxandrolone. I. Short-term effects on liver function.

Bonkovsky HL, Fiellin DA, Smith GS, Slaker DP, Simon D, Galambos JT

Department of Medicine, Emory University School of Medicine, Atlanta, Georgia.

The present studies were designed to provide careful measures of effects of oxandrolone, an anabolic steroid, intravenous nutritional supplementation, and the combination of these two treatments on liver functions, metabolic balances, nitrogen metabolism, and nutritional status in patients with moderate to severe alcoholic hepatitis. Of 43 patients originally recruited, 39 (19 men, 20 women) with typical clinical and laboratory features of alcoholic hepatitis (11 Child's-Pugh class B; 28 class C) were admitted to a metabolic unit and completed a 35-day three-phase protocol. Phase I was a 10-day baseline period of observation, during which routine and special quantitative tests of liver function (galactose and antipyrine metabolism), a 7-day elemental balance study, and a 15N, 13C-leucine metabolism study were done. Phase II was a 21-day treatment period during which patients were randomly assigned to receive one of four regimens: 1) standard therapy, consisting of abstinence, a balanced, nutritionally adequate diet, and multivitamins; 2) oxandrolone (20 mg orally four times a day) plus standard therapy; 3) nutritional supplementation, consisting of 2 L daily of 3.5% crystalline amino acids (in 5% dextrose), given by peripheral vein; or 4) a combination of oxandrolone and nutritional supplementation, along with standard therapy. Metabolic balances were repeated during phase II. Phase III was 2 or 3 days posttreatment, during which special studies of liver functions and volumes and leucine metabolism were repeated. All patients who completed phase I of study and were randomly allocated to one of the four treatment groups completed the subsequent two phases. Overall, with time, patients showed highly significant improvements in most clinical and laboratory features. For most standard laboratory tests (e.g., serum albumin, transferrin, prothrombin time) improvements were more marked in patients treated with nutritional supplementation and/or oxandrolone than in those given standard therapy alone. Liver volumes fell in all treatment groups, with greater improvement in those treated with nutritional supplementation. Improvements in galactose and antipyrine metabolism rates were significant only in those treated with nutritional supplementation or oxandrolone. Effects of treatments on metabolic balances, nitrogen metabolism, and measures of nutrition are described in this issue in a companion paper. We conclude that the addition of nutritional supplementation and oxandrolone to standard therapy of moderately severe or severe alcoholic hepatitis is well tolerated, and leads to more rapid improvement in the laboratory parameters measured.

Only Fonz has been through enough school to be able to refute ACTUAL RESEARCH. Wow, my freakin' hero (once again sarcastic) and mod to be (bwwaaaaahhhhahahahahaha).

-Stew

-Stew

quote:

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Originally posted by stretch:
For the record, anavar is not liver toxic

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Anavar is aa17 and thus making it toxic to the liver. I dont care much for the other arguing going on here but if anyone claims anavar is in no way toxic to the liver is in my opinion misinformed.

Oh and yes it has been shown to improve liver function in 'test groups'.

When I get the money I will hit 75mgs/day and see real world tests.

quote:

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Originally posted by Stew Meat:
I figured that was about all you could say about that... Shits like you have seriously deteriated the quality of this board. Now, I must say that sometimes you do have enough sense to add some debate to things, but mostly, you are just a dumbass that doesn't know shit but you think since you enroled in a biology course you have an unprecedented understanding of the human body. You add so much uncalled for bullshit that I get sick of seeing your fcking name on posts. 99% of the time I just scroll past it to keep it from pissing me off but I can't always help reading it. I don't care if there are people on this board that like you, but I'm sick of humoring you. You are the only person on this board that I can not get along with. Surely I'm not the only one that is getting fed up with your shit.

-Stew

[This message has been edited by Stew Meat (edited March 14, 2001).]

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