Now then, it is very well thought that not everyone bounces back in 3-4 weeks. Hell, I take a few months sometimes, isn't that sick? I was approached with the question of "What could I do, if it's been several months after my last cycle, been using clomid, but with no return."

The theory-what do you guys think about administering let's say 50mgs of enanthate/wk while using clomid, to help restore nature hormone balances. Then after 2 weeks, drop it down to 50mgs of cyponiate every 2 weeks, while using clomid, and then eventually getting off the test all together.

Any ideas on how you feel this might work? I really need to find a way to get people to recover from cycles more quickly, so anything is helpful.

I would add arimidex with HCG.

why because you already typically have upregualted aromatase production post cycle- which may be part of the reason for the contiued suppression even in light of clomid therapy. HCG futher upregualtes aromatase production. so add arimidex.

for my last post cycle recovery, i used HCG on day 1 and 5 at 2500IU, and used clomid 100 mg/day on week one and 50 mg/day on week 2.....all the while using nolvadex at 10 mg/day, extending the nolvadex for 1 week after clomid therapy....i didn't notice a faster recovery than if i used clomid by itself....this leads me to thinking i had too much endogenous estrogen, being masked from the ER by nolvadex, yet still in my system

Godspeed

FONZ,

I disagree

I disagree

You have some good theoretical points, while I may not agree with you- it is part of a good debate that may bring all closer to the truth.

peace

Here's how I'm coming off of my next cycle (of course, it is a 34 weeker :
My post cycle recovery will begin when the level of EQ ester (bolderone) left in my system is at about 80mg and the level of Test (Heptylate) ester in my system is around 50mg. EQ and Test dossages are set and timed for this to occur on week 21 of my cycle. I will continue my use of Armidex throughout week 23 at 1/2 EOD. However, to aid in post cycle recovery by helping to eliminate excessive estrogen, I will also begin proviron week 19 at 25mg per day and take 50mg per day till the week 23 where I will take finish with 25mg per day. I will have started Primobolan at week 16 and kept the primo going till week 21 (Remember at week 21 my post cycle recovery begins). I will start taking Anavar on week 20. With the primobolan and anavar, the lowered dossage of exogenous test should not affect my gains and I should actually experience continued levels of anabolism even throughout post cycle recovery while allowing my natural test production to come back into play. I had dropped the dbol from my cycle at week 15 but I will pick it back up on week 21 taking it ONLY 5mg 1.5 hours pre workout 3 days per week. This will have no effect on my natural test levels and will aid in my workouts (which will be good in keeping up workout intensity post exogenous androgen activity).

With that in mind, the following post-cycle recovery process will start on week 21. Clomid 300mg on Monday of week 21 and 100mg per day to finish the week. Then 50mg ED week 22, then 25mg ED week 23.
HCG will be injected 2500iu on Monday and Friday of week 21 and Monday and Friday of week 22.
I will start cyclofenil at week 20 at 100mg ED, then increase to 200mg per day on week 21, repeat for week 22, then 100mg per day on week 23.
I will also take DHEA to ensure that the testicles will have adequate "building blocks" by which to help construct my own testosterone. I will take 250mg of DHEA starting on week 20 and continuing till week 23.
I will also begin Clen on week 21 for an anticatobolic edge and to help reduce bf gained from the cycle.
I will start taking creatine on week 21 and load with 30g per day for 10 days. I will take no maintenence dose (whole other topic).
I will also begin insulin at week 23 at 6iu pre workout and work up to 10iu preworkout. I will use this for 2 weeks. The insulin will be an obvious anabolic aid and help for the reloading of creatine at week 24 (whenever my creatine pools begin to decrease).

And at week 24, I plan for my own hormonal axis to be restored and I will continue with the rest of my cycle (I won't get into details here) until week 34 where I will have a 4 month lay off.

If all of this is hard to envision, I have it charted if you want to drop me an email, but I won't post it on the board. I will also give you my Kidney/Liver/Acne protection plan while on cycle as well as an overview of diet and supplemental intake if you want.

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"Now the World is gone I'm just One"

Clayton RN, Bailey LC.

"Dopamine agonist- and antagonist-induced modulation of pituitary gonadotrophin releasing hormone receptors are independent of changes in serum prolactin."
J Endocrinol. 1984 Aug;102(2):215-23.

MohanKumar PS, MohanKumar SM, Quadri SK.

"Deprenyl stimulates the release of luteinizing hormone from the pituitary in vitro."
Life Sci. 1997;61(18):1783-8.

I am also going to ask a stupid question. What is the "life" of estrogen in the body? (3 or 4 weeks?) I am wondering after a cycle, at what point do high estrogen levels no longer become a factor in causing inhibition.

If your testosterone levels are low, there will be little aromatization, so high levels of estrogen are not causing inhibition. Low levels of estrogen can inhibit LH production, because estrogen maintains a high number of LHRH receptors. Would people who are having a long recovery benefit from HCG to introduce higher levels of estrogen to maintain a higher number of LHRH receptors to increase LH production?

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" That which does not kill me, will make me stronger"

quote:

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Originally posted by lawnsaver:
Could you use proviron with nolva to sub the arimidex??

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so a little primo, clomid, arimidex and you should be covered--right????(also maybe hcg and dhea..)

quote:

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Originally posted by ontariowrestler:
I am also going to ask a stupid question. What is the "life" of estrogen in the body? (3 or 4 weeks?) I am wondering after a cycle, at what point do high estrogen levels no longer become a factor in causing inhibition.

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GOOD QUESTION!!! i don't know, but would like to...hopefully huck, mac or fonz has an idea

PA

quote:

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Originally posted by MeanOne:
3 to 12 hours.

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wow, that's not what i expected at ALL....do you have documentation on this, MO?

thanks

PA

i learned alot from this post

Someday I will be able to contribute in this fashion.

quote:

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Originally posted by MeanOne:
Cock, that's what I'm basicly getting at...how do we get those glands to recover at a faster pace?

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anyone wanna volunteer for hypothalamus and pituitary transplant surgeries? LOL