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 Anabolic Discussion Board
 What is the matter with you people?
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| Author | Topic: What is the matter with you people? | ||
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Cool Novice 
Posts: 13 |
I hvae been using the serach-function a lot lately. I see that a lot of you are recomending first-timers to take 750 mg test, 30 mg dbol, 400 mg deca, and so on, for 10 weeks or more. That is fucked up. Why is this? Please tell me. Is it because half the shit in USA is fake/underdosed? I don't think a newbie would make any better gains on those insane cycles. What it would do, is that it would burn him out, ruining future roid-use. There are a lot more than just roids to this game. If you are interested in staying healthy, and make good gains over a long period of time, you shold pay more attention to the following: 1. General lifestyle (Don't smoke, don't drink) 2. Nutrition 3. Training 4. Supplements I've seen a few nutrition-plans on this board, and they all suck. You really don't have the first clue about eating. Damn, it the food was as cheap where I live, as in the USA, I would go crazy in the grocery store. I think a good beginners cycle for a person that have been training for at least 4 years would be a sust/deca (250/200) for 8 weeks. Save the dbol and heavy test for later. I'm sorry if I have offended you, but I really think we need to discuss this. I don't like seeing newbies beeing burned with steroids.     | ||
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Cool Novice
Posts: 13 |
How do you even think a newbie is supposed to inject 10+ ml per week? | ||
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Olympian 
Posts: 1860 |
I agree. I tell people time and time again to go slow. You will grow every time on moderate doses. I have done 6 cycle and never went above 500mg of anything. I put 15 to 20lbs every time. Start slow and leave some place to go with your next cycle. ------------------ "Catch a man a fish, he eats for a day. Teach a man to fish, and he eats for a lifetime." | ||
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Elite Bodybuilder 
Posts: 679 |
well there is alot of poor advice given out on the board . Alot of people with little or no experience , doing a kind of "whisper down the lane" thing mimicking what they have heard or think they heard . But before you start flaming with the general " you people " why dont you hang around for a little while . (that way people might not think your a dick ) | ||
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Elite Bodybuilder
Posts: 733 |
Hey dumbass I have seen the differece between somebody doing 1000mg test first cycle and doing 250. The difference was about 30lb and dont say it was all water because the bro that did 1000mg held almost all his weight but they both lost a couple lb. What would you rather do gain 10 lb first cycle or gain 45. Dont piss away your first cycle it is where you will make the most. Havent you heard dan duchane say first cycle 600mg test AT THE LEAST! If you do use that much dont be stupid and leave out anti estrogens. | ||
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Cool Novice
Posts: 13 |
Sure, I'll hang around for a while. | ||
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Cool Novice
Posts: 13 |
GLP: Yeah, I'm a dumb ass. Just because I don't tink newbies should do 1000 mg of test, I'm a real dum ass. Well, if you are so smart, then you must be really big. Well, then post your great stats. | ||
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Olympian
Posts: 1860 |
Glp, that was a pretty stupid post, in my opinion. I dont think ayone who gains 45lbs on a first cycle will keep 50% of it. You have shocked your body and it will want to reject it. If you were to gain 20 lbs over 10 to 12 weeks you would have a better chance of keeping it. I dont think high doses are needed. ------------------ "Catch a man a fish, he eats for a day. Teach a man to fish, and he eats for a lifetime." | ||
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Pro Bodybuilder 
Posts: 331 |
Good lord I hope E2 doesnt read this...... ------------------ | ||
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Cool Novice
Posts: 31 |
Most peoples first cycle is when they are still in their teens or very close. I gained thity pounds off of 2000mgs of test and 2500mg of Deca over a ten week period. My total mgs of the whole cycle where only 4500, and saw awsome gains. I think high doses at first if F*&^ing crazy. I see both points of view, but alot of new people to gear think more is better. I don't think this is the message we should be sending to the inexperianced. This stuff can be dangerouse if not done properly. Just my 2 cents....Later [This message has been edited by MASS SEEKER (edited March 11, 2001).] [This message has been edited by MASS SEEKER (edited March 11, 2001).] | ||
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Elite Bodybuilder
Posts: 733 |
It took you a little while to come up with something to say did it? Knew there would be some flames form this but dont really care. I watched my 16 year old friend go from 180 to 225 on that cycle 1000mg sustanon a week. Do not care if you believe me or not. And you know what my first cycle was? 4 cc of sten a week. Know how much I gained? about 8lb. So say it was a stupid post fuck it i dont care. Ive seen it with my own eyes. Argue with dan duchane or some other steroid guru. | ||
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Elite Bodybuilder
Posts: 1117 |
I agree with GLP..that cycle he posted was a bit heavy but not insane for a first-timer. | ||
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Elite Bodybuilder
Posts: 733 |
BTW Dark Raver. Sorry for calling you a dumbass . That was uncalled for just because I dont agree with your opinion. | ||
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Amateur Bodybuilder 
Posts: 239 |
GLP.....You don't seem to be very bright!!!! you need to get a little more educated on the subject of AS before making comments like this!!!! You may not realize that your "friend" at age 16 had high enough normal test levels to gain about half that weight naturally!!! In my opinion you know NOTHING about what you are saying!!!! A human body has a very difficult time adjusting to the stress and shock of putting on THAT much weight in such a little time!! ------------------ | ||
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Cool Novice
Posts: 31 |
Its two sided. There may not be a clear answer. It all stems from personal experiance.. Some peoples body's respond better to gear than others. Try it in moderation first and then go big if you have too. | ||
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Elite Bodybuilder
Posts: 733 |
What i am saying is dont piss away your first cycle. That is what I feel like I did and feel kind of gyped. I you think that im not very bright dont take my word for it. Go over to anabolic extreme and see what Jason Muller has to say about. Guess what? 1000mg test first cycle. Or testosterone mag. Brock strasser 1000mg test first cycle. Dan duchane. At least 600mg first cycle. Havent you ever seen anybody blow the fuck up there first cycle? I took the bullshit advice go low and was very dissapointed! Not trying to say this to fuck people up just want to see them get the most out of there first. I am sure more flames are coming and like i said dont really care. | ||
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Moderator 
Posts: 2067 |
Look!! First off you only have so much damn receptor space ok? Second I agree and disagree with some of the posts on this thread and yeah I hope E2 does get ahold of this one. You make a very relavant point Dark Raver but on others you seem to be mistaken. You say there is alot of misinformation on the board and for the most I can agree but the brothers know who is who and who not to trust, and if you want to go head to head on any debate just set it up and Ill shoot with you no hair off my nuts. When a newbie comes to me I very often suggest the same cycle I ran the first time under close supervision....2cc's of sust and 30mg of dbol, very simple and to the point. While I agree that some of the dosages recommended for newbies is extreme I ask that you retract your statements that include only some. Peace, ------------------ | ||
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Cool Novice
Posts: 13 |
WCP: are you saying that I should retract the topic, because I advocate too low dosages? Did I get that right? Well, I won't. 500 mg sust and 30 mg dbol are insane in my opinion, at least for a first timer. Test and dbol.. two of the highest aromatizing roids out there.. and you think one should combine them both in the very first cycle, at those dosages? You're cracy man. | ||
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Elite Bodybuilder
Posts: 733 |
Mabey I went a little over board saying 1000mg. But 500mg and 30mg dbal I dont think that is crazy at all. | ||
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Elite Bodybuilder
Posts: 733 |
WCP you just got flammed buy a newbie. | ||
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Cool Novice
Posts: 31 |
Lets flame this file. Everyone give an opinion. Maybe we can all gain a different perspective on the subject. I think this is a huge discrepency among everyone on the board. Vets and Mods, what do yall think. I'm open to new info. MASS | ||
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Moderator
Posts: 2067 |
Dark Raver, allow me to get one thing straight. I didnt ask you to retract your whole message. I only asked that you retract comments to those whom are in the "know" of diet, excersice and gear use. I understand your point and for the most part I agree but to say that 2ccs of sust and 30mg of dbol a day is insane? Care to explain that one? Ill await, ------------------ | ||
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Cool Novice
Posts: 13 |
Well, I basicly think that those who advocate mega-doses are those who have been scamed, and who has done fake gear. When the results failed to come, they think "Damn, nothing works for me, I'd better take 2000 mg next time" | ||
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Moderator
Posts: 2067 |
I disagree, I think those who say that such and such didnt work for me are not so much the holders of fake gear as they are in lacking in the skill of ancillary drugs, diet and so on. I fully believe there is a secret to holding on to all your gains per cycle saying perse' that you dont cycle all year. For a person to figure out the right combination is his own triumph. Ive have not come in contact with near as many counterfeits as I have real gear, I think gains are much more part of the learned user then they are the insane man, or the scammed man. I still await your reasoning behing 2cc's of sust being crazy. Peace, ------------------ | ||
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Elite Bodybuilder
Posts: 647 |
There is much more to this argument than just "how many cc's". How old is this "first timer"? What level of natural training is he at? What is his body comp? If we are talking about a very young person with little training under his belt and a shitty diet, then the answer is "none". He is not ready for gear at all yet. Teenagers make huge gains naturally with proper guidance. I have two sons in that age group and they are big and ripped with no "help". Hell, my 20 year old can clean and press more than the big boys at the gym can bench. But if we are talking about a more mature lifter who has hit the wall in development and is well educated on gear, then a hefty cycle may be in order. And of course, there are a lot of levels in between. So, you are both right in a way. Sanguine remarks from the very knowledgeable WCP, as usual - you can learn a lot from him dark one. How was the vacation, big man? | ||
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Cool Novice
Posts: 13 |
WCP: I also belive that cycling year round is useless. One cycle per year is in my opinion the best. One should be able to gain naturaly, at least just to prove to one self that one is not dependent on steroids to make any gains at all. I do know that there are a lot of sensible people on this board, and I should not judge all of you just because some of you just don't have know-how. I just felt like bringing this to their attention. | ||
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Moderator
Posts: 2067 |
The vacation was gravy brudda...and your wife still owes me a steak dinner....damn!..heh..heh..heh..heh..nice to see you back. WCP ------------------ | ||
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Elite Bodybuilder
Posts: 647 |
You'll get that steak, young man. I've been busy with the boys wrestling. My high school senior placed at state this last weekend. He's a bear, a real gladiator. | ||
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Moderator
Posts: 2067 |
Dark Raver, I appreciate the comment. I personally see no need to cycle year'round myself unless your a seasoned pro, which I have (nor many others) desire to be. I run two cycles per year, one for mass one to preserve mass and cut, simple as that. Actually if you use the search that much pick out a subject I put up called Keep It Simple Stupid. A post a put up about realizing that the complexity of a cycle is not the factor to growth but the logic and science behind one that causes it. Peace, ------------------ | ||
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Cool Novice
Posts: 15 |
I think that many experienced bb's recommend high dosages to newbies becuase they think back and say "what would I recommend to myself if it was my first time again" or "If I could do my first cycle again, I would do this". These experienced bodybuilders would definately have had a better experience with a high dosage for a first cycle. However that is becuase they know how to eat, work out properly, sleep, nutrition, come off the cycle. This is all from learned from experience. A newbie doesnt have all of this experience. A mega dosed cycle would not be utilized properly and will not live up to its potential as it would with someone who has had years of experience(but doing it for the first time again  Anyone who has been doing cycles for a while definately does it differently now then they did their first time in respect to eating, sleeping, workouts, training, nutrition ect. I honestly do not think that a megadose would make that much more of a difference and it would not be worth the negative side. 500 sust/week...30mgs dbol/day is perfect..its not megadosing but I wouldnt do anymore... | ||
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Cool Novice
Posts: 15 |
what do you guys think is a better first cycle...sust/eq or sust/dbol?(out of the two) | ||
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Freak
Posts: 2384 |
quote: Wow, its a good job I stumbled accross this post. Where is E2, Slopain, Huck and Ulter at. You are very naieve if you believe that the difference in sides between 250mgs of test and 1000mgs of test are so different. You may have researched on newbie cycles but you sure havent searched on medical and real world fact. 750mgs? Dan Duchaine recommended that first time users use no less than 1000mgs of test as a base to their cycle. If you think the difference in sides between using 250mgs and 750mgs of test is any bigger than minimal you are simply mistaken. No one is saying you cant grow off smaller amounts but you want your first cycle to be the best then larger doses are required. The main problem here is cost. In theory an athelete or bb should not be using steroids until they have reached their natural genetic max, however unfortunately this isn't the case, people fail to do research and then as with everything else Shit Happens. Peace ------------------ E2's Steroid Pictures Pictures of many different drugs. AJC' Steroid Profiles Profiles of many different steroids 2Thick's Injection Procedures Site Complete with Pictures and Diagrams! Finaplix by Mr H A complete guide to Fina | ||
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Elite Bodybuilder
Posts: 842 |
This is a singularly funny thread.... First off there are three basic steps in making a decision regarding gear: 1. Do your OWN research 2. Get opinions and experiences from other users 3. FORMULATE YOUR OWN CONCLUSION I can't stress #3 more. Raver, would you jump out of a window if somebody told you he did and he was fine? The answer is no, you wouldn't. Everybody is physically different, and therefore will react to different compounds differently. And so, while some newbie will grow and grow on just sust/dball at 500/30, another one will barely put on weight. The conundrum of all this is that you have to learn what your body responds well to(and what dosages) , and more importantly YOU HAVE TO MAKE YOUR OWN DECISIONS. Godspeed [This message has been edited by Fonz (edited March 11, 2001).] | ||
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Pro Bodybuilder
Posts: 468 |
If I could have done my first cycle over, I would have done a gram of Test, and at least 50 mg. of D-Bol per day. Maybe not 10 weeks, but somewhere around 6-8. And this is baseline and being conservative. Bottom line is that I have not seen much of a difference in sides using 1000mg's as compared to 200mg's if proper safety measures are taken into consideration. If one has not read up on this shit, they shouldn't be doing it anyway. PERIOD. Therefore, I support the high cycle dosage of 1st time users that have educated themselves. MR. BMJ 'THE INTIMIDATOR" | ||
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Elite Bodybuilder
Posts: 1117 |
Dark Raver..why don't you tell us a bit about your cycle experience..have you even tried 500mgs/wk of test..that is the perfect dose for a first-timer and it is insane to do less. | ||
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Pro Bodybuilder
Posts: 319 |
Well I don't wish I would have done 1000 mgs my first but 500mgs of Enanthate & 300 deca would have been great instead of that measly little 250 mg & 100 mg of Deca what a cycle. lol | ||
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Freak
Posts: 2162 |
Dark Raver, Your lack of knowledge and experience in cycling is obvious even to the most casual observer. If someone is planning a first cycle and they only use 250mg/wk of test, that person is only going to add twice the amount of test that was there in the first place. When you shut down your natural test you have to replace that test and add to it. You propose to do that with 250mg/wk? Why bother? The difference in sides between 250mg and 750mg are so minor and the difference in gains are so great that it makes no sense to even waste the syringe on 250mg and I hope you're not suggesting major growth will occur on 200mg/wk of deca. That's laughable. ------------------ | ||
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Elite Bodybuilder
Posts: 842 |
Better hope 2Thick doesn't see that comment Ulter......LOL Godspeed | ||
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Amateur Bodybuilder
Posts: 154 |
I disagree with you Ulter, if someone uses 250mg a week in very short cycle that is under three weeks than their own test wont get shut off. They will have in their bodies anywhere from 4-6 times as much testosterone as is averge. Of course if they have high testsoterone levels to begin with, which is unlikely, than it might only be about 3 times as much as normal. If u are looking to amintain a natural look these levels are good. | ||
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Freak
Posts: 2384 |
quote: Sorry buddy but I am gonna have to strongly disagree with you there. Studies have shown 200mgs of synthetic test for 14 days will almost fully cease natural test production. In fact even 100mgs has shown to put a large decline in natural test production. Peace ------------------ E2's Steroid Pictures Pictures of many different drugs. AJC' Steroid Profiles Profiles of many different steroids 2Thick's Injection Procedures Site Complete with Pictures and Diagrams! Finaplix by Mr H A complete guide to Fina | ||
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Amateur Bodybuilder
Posts: 154 |
I thinkt that what is screwedmup is that the duration of cycles suggested to newbies is too long. Most aren't looking to get seriously into steorids as alot of us are and in these cases they will want to preserve there naturla testosterone levels as much as possible. 10 weeks of steroids, especialy if done without the aid of ati-estrogens, can put your balls out of commission for a verey long time post cycle. I agree that the cycle thart dark raver uses as ana aexample as what is commonly recccomended to newbies is excessive but only becasue some people are very sensitive to androgens and they need to start small to figure out if this is the case. AS FOR THE IDEA THAT PEOPLE GET BURNED OUT ON USING STEROIDS THAT IS BULL. THE FIRST CYCLE WIORKS THE BEST ONLY BECASUE THAT IS WHEN PEOPLE WEIGH THE LEAST. THE ONLY WAY SOMEONE IS GOING OT GET PERMANENTLY DESENSITIZED TO STEROIDS IS IF THEY ARE DOING GRAMS AND GRAMS AND GRAMS WEEK AFTER WEEK FOR YEARS. | ||
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Freak
Posts: 2162 |
I am not saying 250mg is a waste ONLY because of the amount of test you are replacing. I am saying it because I am in my 18th year of this and after all this time I can tell you 250mg is a waste because 750mg will yield MUCH better gains with almost no more sides. If you only want to raise your levels by 500% buy some androgel for your next cycle. ------------------ | ||
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Amateur Bodybuilder
Posts: 154 |
I am just saying that some people have low testosterone levels to begin with, and only make about 6 mgs a day. 250mgs, even though only about 175mgs of it is pure test, will give about 4 times that plus what is already there. I have learned from a doctor and from reasding I have done that natural testosterone levels only go down after about 21 days of supplementation. IT might be 14 but I wouldn't agree with any number lower than that. | ||
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Moderator
Posts: 5828 |
quote: 500mgs of test is insane?LOL...What you're failing to realize is that the use of ancillary medications that go hand and hand with these products all but erase any estrogenic related problems,and I have yet to see any of the truly knowledgable bros that know what they're talking about recommend these dosages WITHOUT concurrent anti-estro strategems...Ulter summed it up best,the difference in side effects from 250mgs/week and 750mgs/week is almost non-existant(especially with the addition of ancillary medications)but the difference in GROWTH is HUGE.... | ||
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Elite Bodybuilder
Posts: 733 |
To the iron game. Bro mabey dont have medical experence but have dont low dose cycles of test and just got off a 1000mg week cycle and with anti estrogens there were no sides not even heavy water retention. Did make me pee 3 times a night but have gotten some saw pammeto and procar that has totally gone away. | ||
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Elite Bodybuilder
Posts: 1439 |
First cycle I did 500mg of omna a week for eight weeks. Wish now I did a gram. If you're going to do it get something worth while from it. If you're going for the mens health look the winny will do the trick but for those who want to be massive human beings you need to be a little ambitious. The side effect difference between 500mg of test and a gram of test are nill. Same sides(if any at all) but more gains. That's the point of AS...At least last time I checked. I couldn't agree more, however, that AS is the least inportant factor in the equation of bodybuilding. Diet and training are parramount to success. But combine proper nutrition, training, and responsibility with a killer cycle and dreams can come true. | ||
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Freak
Posts: 2384 |
GLP am hitting 1750mgs of enanthate tomorrow and 400mgs of eq later on in the week will be doing this for 8 weeks with an oral as well. I will bloat but from day 1 I will be hitting 50mgs of proviron daily and 20mgs of nolva. If I do get too much water retention even with the use of these then I will use a diuretic for a few days. Will let ya know how it goes. As for using test at 250mgs/day if you can get away with it fine but 750-1000mgs is best IMHO. We have even seen members here who have used the lower amounts the first cycle and wish they had upped it. Everyone is different though Peace ------------------ E2's Steroid Pictures Pictures of many different drugs. AJC' Steroid Profiles Profiles of many different steroids 2Thick's Injection Procedures Site Complete with Pictures and Diagrams! Finaplix by Mr H A complete guide to Fina | ||
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Pro Bodybuilder
Posts: 456 |
Ulter,no disrespect to you,but my first cycle was 200/mg of Lyphomed Deca weekly for 8 weeks,back in 1988,and I put on 28 pounds.What I personally believe,is that you have to take all things into account,training...is the person actually training hard and correctly,ass to the floor squats and deadlifts will put on lots of pounds if done correctly,not to mention is overtraining creeping in...hindering gains? Second...diet is probably THE most important factor.If you eat like a bird...you look like a bird!Some guys get on gear and don't eat enough or correctly...hence the minimal gains Third...another major factor,everbody responds differently to gear.Some were just programmed physiologically better at birth than others,but I do believe alot of that can be overcome by good old fashined HARD WORK,DESIRE and NUTRITION,,,and a POSITIVE MENTAL ATTITUDE. I'm not bashing those who use or advocate high doses,but I believe you have to crawl before you learn to walk...Rome wasn't built in a day.This will be a lifetime deal for most of us.Newbies haven't even begun to tap into their bodies responsiveness. I will always recommend starting small and working your way up.You can always adjust your dosages if you are not satisfied,and work up to the heavier dosages as time progresses.One's enthusiasm when they first start a cycle should be enough too add 10 lbs. alone. Some just don't tap into the mind's potential.
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Freak
Posts: 2162 |
I have heard stories of people who were so genetically gifted that they could gain 25-30 pounds in 8 weeks on 200mg of deca. I have never seen anyone do it. If you say you are one of these people God Bless You. You are the Michael Jordan of the Steroid World. 2thick can put on 30 lbs just by having a dozen yellow tops in his pocket. Now back to reality, you have said you put on 28lbs in 8 weeks with only 200mg of deca. How much did you keep? You see I am betting that IF you did gain that much it was from your diet and that it was actually less than 5lbs of LBM in that 28lbs. ------------------ | ||
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Amateur Bodybuilder
Posts: 128 |
Well, I joined this board about 2 months ago. I decided to do a cycle, and have been reading reading reading everything I can get my hands on. I started off think "DECA only". After many back-and-forth decisions, a lot of reading, asking some questions, USING THE SEARCH FEATURES ON THIS AND OTHER BOARDS ...... I have decided to go with a 500mg /wk Test cycle, with EQ (300-400/wk) with it. My only major gear decision now is Sust or Cyp. If I can get Arimidex (somwhow) I will go for that as an anti-E. Otherwise, Nolv/Prov. And of course, Clomid at end. I feel this is probably a good cycle for me. I know my body very well. I have pretty much plateaued naturally. I have read probably 3x more than most guys who ever do any gear at all, and am fairly up on what I need to watch out for. So, the decscion for each new guy should be his own, but thats what I have arrived at. | ||
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Pro Bodybuilder
Posts: 399 |
quote: HEY BRO. I'D TRY D-BOL IN THAT STACK. THEY DON'T CALL IT "THE BREAKFAST OF CHAMPIONS" FOR NOTHIN! LOL ------------------ IF YOU HAD ONE WISH, WHAT WOULD IT BE? | ||
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Pro Bodybuilder
Posts: 456 |
Well Ulter that's a pretty good bet I should take you up on.Anyway,my bench went from 205 for 5 to 275 for 8,my dead from 315 for 4 to 405 for 8,my squat from 315 for 2 to 365 for 5. My weight went from 179 to 207.I lost 6 lbs. of that,and then I found the GOD of all steroids..TEST.If I could do it all over,I probably would have to take the Test. Anyway,good discussion.We could do this one all night long.Thanks for the reply and the good info. you pass along ------------------ | ||
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Cool Novice
Posts: 39 |
Dark Raver, it really surprises me that with all the so called reseach that you claim that you have done that you would rather take almost the same sides with 250mg or 750mg of test. What would be the point of that? Why wouldn't you want to take full advantage of of the extra growth you would receive with the 750mg of test? I do agree that you would see better results with 250mg of test compared to prohormones, thats a no brainer.It sounds like you want to string your self a long. If you are going to do it, you should do it wright... That's only my opinion. ------------------ |
All times are ET (US) | |
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posted March 11, 2001 01:18 AM
