GEORGE SPELLWIN'S ANNOUNCEMENTS
Enlightening Men about Anabolic Steroids and Bodybuilding for over Two Decades
|
 Elite Fitness Bodybuilding, Anabolics, Diet, Life Extension, Wellness, Supplements, and Training Boards
 Anabolic Discussion Board
 Clomid makes you stronger while on gear..
|
| Author | Topic: Clomid makes you stronger while on gear.. | ||
|
Amateur Bodybuilder 
Posts: 98 |
If you take Clomids during your cycle (like most bros on this board do), should you not be stronger then if you didn't?? The logic behind it is by stimulating your natural test level constantly it should give you more free test in your body. Is this theory correct or am I off?? Later boys     | ||
|
Cool Novice 
Posts: 41 |
You are off..clomid will not stimulate natural test during a cycle... | ||
|
Amateur Bodybuilder
Posts: 98 |
Why not?? | ||
|
Moderator 
Posts: 5805 |
HCG will do this,clomid will not... | ||
|
Amateur Bodybuilder
Posts: 76 |
You may be partially correct. Using clomid during a cycle will not stimulate any natural testosterone production as the high androgen levels around the clock provide inhibition. However, there is some evidence that suggests clomid does increase free testosterone levels by reducing the amount of testosterone bound to SHBG. The effects of aging in normal men on bioavailable testosterone and luteinizing hormone secretion: response to clomiphene citrate. Tenover JS; Matsumoto AM; Plymate SR; Bremner WJ Geriatric Research, Education, and Clinical Center, Veterans Administration Medical Center, Seattle, Washington. J Clin Endocrinol Metab, 65(6):1118-26 1987 Dec | ||
|
Elite Bodybuilder 
Posts: 1402 |
At the risk of sounding like a peroqueet I have to agree with Huck and Verbal ------------------ | ||
|
Amateur Bodybuilder
Posts: 98 |
I am confused! I read in both Anabolics 2000 and WAR that some BB's take Clomid and/or HCG to stimulate their natural test. Clomid being partially an anti-estrogen works well in blocking the extra estrogen from HCG. Many guys on this board take Clomid as part of their cycle. Please explain.. | ||
|
Moderator
Posts: 5805 |
 Testosterone production begins at the hypothalamus,which scans blood levels of estrogens,androgens and other pertinent hormones.In a presence of low androgens and estrogens the hypothalamus will produce leutenizing-hormone-releasing-hormone(LHRH)which in turn stimulates the pituitary to produce leutenizing hormone(LH).LH then signals the leydig cells in the testicles to begin producing testosterone.Hence the Hypothalamic Pituitary Testicular Axis(more commonly referred to as H-P-T-A),as production is ran in that particular order.Now on to the clomid... Clomid is a selective estrogen receptor modulator(much like nolvadex,only their binding capacities are more aggressive in seperate areas).Clomid stimulates L-H-R-H/LH production by binding to ESTROGEN receptors on the hypothalamus and pituitary,thus giving the illusion of a low presence of circulating estrogen.Note the key word here-ESTROGEN.CLOMID DOES NOT BIND ANDROGEN.Therefore,on a cycle of moderate to high amounts of ANDROGENS,clomid will have no effect whatsoever on endogenous testosterone production,as we are in a state of ANDROGENIC inhibition.It's post cycle,when blood levels of androgens begin to normalize and the typical estrogenic rebound/lag occurs,that clomid is able to re-initialize this process of testosterone production.Hope this clears up how clomid works and why to save it for post cycle,unless you're using it as an anti-estrogen... How do we know when to administer clomid therapy,and how much should we use to get the desired effects?First you have to figure out the activity life/clearance time of your particular ester.They don't have to be completely cleared from your system,just enough that androgen levels are within normal to high normal ranges.For instance sust's longest acting and most potent ester,the undecanoate ester clears your system in roughly 3-4 weeks.So beginning clomid therapy 3 weeks after your last injection would be ideal.This is the pattern I would run my clomid in... Day 1)300mgs...2 tabs every 4 hours or so.This will drive up blood levels of the drug for an immediate "therapeutic" response(one that would normally take many consecutive days of usage to be reached)and get the drug working aggressively towards re-initializing endogenous hormonal production. Days 2-11)100mgs/day(bothtabs can be taken together now,as it's half life is so long it will make no difference... Days 12-21)50mgs/day... Day 22)DONE! | ||
|
Pro Bodybuilder 
Posts: 350 |
CLOMID ACTUALLY MAKES YOU WEAKER BY REDUCING WATER RETENTION. PUFFY MUSCLES ARE STRONGER, BRO. ------------------ | ||
|
Pro Bodybuilder
Posts: 316 |
I've been on a sus, prop, and Eq cycle for the last 5 weeks and been taking clomid 50 mg EOD for the first 4 week and down to 25mgs for the last week. But I belive the clomid has hindered my gains or at least my mood and I am going to stop the clomid until post week three. . | ||
|
Amateur Bodybuilder
Posts: 117 |
Huck, if my memory serves me correct, the male body actually creates all of its estrogen from free testosterone via the aromatase enzyme. Now, if I am correct in that matter, then Clomid WOULD actually increase testosterone levels during a test cylce. He're why... When the hypothalamus senses that there is low levels of estrogen, then it sends a signal to the gonads (via the release of LH and FSH) to release testosterone (in males) and estrogen & progesterone (in females). In males that testosterone is sometimes converted to estrogen via the aromatase enzyme. Now if Clomid modulates the estrogen receptor in the hypothalamus, then it would actually increase testosterone levels because biologically speaking, the hypothalamus in males does not have a direct way to release estrogen, only an indirect way. Just a hypothesis...does anyone else agree? | ||
|
Moderator
Posts: 5805 |
That's very good thinking,but a little off...ANDROGENS,all by themselves will zero out production of gonadotropin releasing hormone and LH from the hypothalamus & pituitary,even in a presence of ZERO readable estrogen.This is inevitable,even when clomid is used throughout the cycle...Many people are making the equation that because their nuts don't shrivel up,that means their H & P are not inhibited,and this is not the case...I have conferred with one of the world's leading endocrinologists on this,Dr.Raymond Scruggs,and he has confirmed that LH production zeroes out when on moderate amounts of androgens,IRREGARDLESS OF WHETHER CLOMID IS USED THROUGHOUT OR NOT...Hundreds of his patients bloodwork do not lie,hehheh.... | ||
|
Amateur Bodybuilder
Posts: 117 |
That makes sense. | ||
|
Amateur Bodybuilder
Posts: 98 |
If this is all true then what's the point of taking Clomid throughout the cycle?? Is there any benefit or can it harm you, i.e. your hormones not responding to Cloms due to prolonged use?? Where is Huck???? | ||
|
Moderator
Posts: 5805 |
Taking clomid throughout the cycle is okay as a form of anti-estrogen,but I would choose nolvadex over it for that purpose...There is the possibility that one could develope some attenuation to clomid,and not have the drug working at maximum capacity when they truly need it-post cycle... | ||
|
Elite Bodybuilder
Posts: 770 |
The only benefit of taking Clomid throughout the cycle(and Huck will tell you this also), is to use it as a weak estrogen antagonist only if you don't have access to tamoxifen citrate(Novaldex) or anastrozole(arimidex). There are no other benefits whatsoever.... Godspeed | ||
|
Freak
Posts: 2150 |
No benefits Fonz? There is that one benefit. Admittedly it is just sport but fun nonetheless. ------------------ | ||
|
Elite Bodybuilder
Posts: 770 |
Ok.........LOL Godspeed | ||
|
Elite Bodybuilder
Posts: 605 |
Bump for Iron Game | ||
|
Elite Bodybuilder
Posts: 770 |
Damn, just re-read biopsy's post, and I can't believe Huck didn't spot the mistake. Total estrogen comes from not only the conversion of testosterone to estrogen via the aromatase enzyme but also FROM THE FAT CELLS, WHICH ALSO PRODUCE ESTROGEN........ Godspeed [This message has been edited by Fonz (edited March 08, 2001).] | ||
|
Elite Bodybuilder
Posts: 1402 |
Good thread ------------------ | ||
|
Amateur Bodybuilder
Posts: 170 |
informative..bump ------------------ |
All times are ET (US) | |
 |
posted March 07, 2001 03:50 PM
