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  Interactions of the HPTA

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Author Topic:   Interactions of the HPTA
The_Iron_Game

Freak

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posted March 01, 2001 07:04 AM

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Anabolic Extreme:

Interactions of the Hypothalamus,
Pituitary, and Testes (HPTA)


During a cycle of AAS, natural production of testosterone decreases, often times to zero. In many cases, the diminished natural testosterone production causes a cessation of sperm production (spermatogenesis), and the male becomes sterile. After the cycle, the body's ability to make testosterone may take months to start again. Aside from the undesirable sterility and loss of strength, other hormone levels get out of whack because of the low testosterone, and cause other problems such as increased body fat and depression. The body produces many hormones, and the levels of most hormones are interrelated. This article will examine the factors involved in regulating the production of certain hormones in the body, particularly by the Hypothalamic-Pituitary-Testicular Axis. As always, the author does not condone the use of steroids by persons not under the care and guidance of a qualified physician.

Endogenous Testosterone
Where is testosterone made in the body? Well, about 95% is produced in the testicles, in special cells called "interstitial cells" or Leydig cells. These cells surround cells in the seminiferous tubules, called Sertoli cells, whose function is to produce sperm. Spermatogenesis in the Sertoli cells requires testosterone, and when endogenous testosterone diminishes, then sperm production stops (and you end up with raisins). Bear in mind that Leydig cells and Sertoli cells are in close proximity to each other. Therefore, the testosterone concentration is high, relative to the concentration in the bloodstream. Sertoli cells require high testosterone concentration for the sperm cells to begin the maturation process. So, even though you might have "a lot" of exogenous testosterone when on-cycle, the concentration is not high enough at the Sertoli cells to promote spermatogenesis because the Leydig cells have shut down. This, combined with a lack of Follicle Stimulating Hormone (FSH), renders many men sterile during a cycle.

The "Axis"
Hang on a minute, the Leydig cells shut down? Why? How? Well, the short answer is, "hormones". Hormones are the body's way of sending signals, or information from one part of the body to another. In a computer, electrons (electricity) act as the signal; in the body (which doesn't have wires!), the signals must be sent with chemicals, and that is the role of hormones. The term "HPT Axis" refers to the interaction of the hypothalamus, pituitary, and testes (there are other axes as well). For the Leydig cells, Luteinizing hormone (LH) is released from the pituitary and it signals the Leydig cells to produce testosterone. Similarly, the pituitary releases FSH, and it tells the Sertoli cells to make sperm (as well as androgen-binding-protein). The pituitary is a gland that produces and stores a number of hormones, under the control of the hypothalamus. The hypothalamus might be considered to be the General (as in military), and the pituitary would be a Colonel under the General's command. The hypothalamus decides how the body's organs should operate, and the pituitary gives the actual "orders" to the target organs. Some of the "signaling" hormones made or stored in the pituitary are:

Growth Hormone
IGF-I and IGF-II
Thyroid Stimulating Hormone (TSH)
Vasopressin (or Antidiuretic hormone)
Luteininzing Hormone (LH)
Follicle Stimulating Hormone (FSH)
Adrenocorticotropic Hormone (ACTH)

The hypothalamus and the pituitary are very close together, and are located at the base of the brain. Just as the pituitary uses hormones to signal the target organ (testes, thyroid, etc) to do something, the hypothalamus uses other hormones to signal the pituitary to do its job. Some of these "Hypothalamic Releasing Factors" are (along with the pituitary hormones affected):

Hypothalamic Hormone: Regulates

Gonadotropin Releasing Hormone: LH, FSH

Growth Hormone Releasing Hormone: GH

Thyrotropin Releasing Hormone: TSH

Corticotropin Releasing Hormone: ACTH

But how does the hypothalamus know when its commands have been carried out? By what's called a "feedback loop". Just as a General relies on reports from the field, the hypothalamus must monitor the results of its commands. The hypothalamus has sensors (receptors) to determine the levels of the chemicals (hormones) produced by the target organs. For our purposes, we will examine only one feedback loop, the one involving the testes.

The hypothalamus has both androgen receptors and estrogen receptors. When the level of either hormone gets too high, the receptors become more highly activated, and the hypothalamus stops sending Gonadotropin Releasing Hormone to the pituitary. The pituitary, in turn, stops sending LH and FSH to the testes. Thus, the signal is, "stop producing testosterone (and sperm)". We know that androgens (and NOT just estrogen) stop the action of the testes because exogenous DHT by itself (which cannot convert to estrogen) is very effective at shutting down the testes. A schematic of the HPTA (and other glands) is shown below. Note that the other glands are involved in feedback mechanism also

What does the estrogen/androgen feedback loop mean to bodybuilders? It means that, when using exogenous androgens, the hypothalamus is very effectively signaled (by binding to the AR's on the hypothalamus) that there is plenty of androgen, and that the testes should be shut down. As long as the level of exogenous androgen is high enough, no reasonable amount of Clomid (or other estrogen-blocker) will be able to keep the testes functioning. So, the only reason to take Clomid during a cycle is if you are susceptible to gyno, or want to try to reduce the bloating associated with elevated estrogens. Both of these actions take place at sites other than at the hypothalamus.

How does hCG work and what does it do? This hormone (produced by pregnant females) acts very much like LH, and it even closely resembles LH (and FSH) in chemical structure. So, administration of hCG sends a signal to the testes to start production of testosterone (thus, hCG can help prevent testicular atrophy during a long cycle). However, remember that the testosterone produced can signal the hypothalamus to stop sending the signals to turn on the testes. So, hCG can be somewhat inhibiting to the natural process of hormone release. That is why many believe that hCG should not be used at the end of a cycle, when the desire is to stimulate natural production of hormones.

It has become standard practice to use Clomid at the end of a cycle; because it is felt that blockage of the estrogen receptors on the hypothalamus will cause it to start signalling for the production of testosterone by releasing Gonadotropin-releasing hormone. While this sounds very good in theory and works in many cases, it does not always work, particularly in older men. For some, the use of clomid does not help "jump-start" the gonads at the end of a cycle, and some believe that only time will allow the hypothalamus to begin action again. Doctors still rely on the combination of clomid and hCG (yes, even after a cycle), and there appear to be indications that this combination therapy is a little more successful than clomid by itself. To be absolutely sure, a man who uses exogenous steroids should have blood work done after being off-cycle for a while, in order to ensure that the hormone levels have come into normal ranges.

Finally, many men who use steroids get high blood pressure very early in a cycle. While many have attributed this to erythropoiesis (production of too many red blood cells and thickening of the blood), I believe that the increase in BP is due to a direct action of androgens on the hypothalamus, altering the release of Vasopressin. Doctors who prescribe hormone-replacement therapy often monitor the hematocrit (% of red blood cells), and recommend that the patient donate blood if the hematocrit exceeds 50. I am not certain, however, that this helps the elevated blood pressure that much


[This message has been edited by The_Iron_Game (edited March 01, 2001).]


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DIXIEBOY

Amateur Bodybuilder

Posts: 295
From:MAN-WHOREVILLE
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posted March 01, 2001 07:27 AM

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Damn good post Iron!BUMP

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strengthmonster

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posted March 01, 2001 09:04 AM

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Bump for a great post.


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Fonz

Elite Bodybuilder

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From:Mt. Olympus
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posted March 01, 2001 10:17 AM

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Been saying that about Clomid for a bloody
loooong time....
Nice post Iron Game. Wasn't aware
of the vasopressin-hematocrit
-high BP connection. Thanks

Godspeed


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The_Iron_Game

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posted March 01, 2001 12:35 PM

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I will never understand why any post containing any good material or content falls off the page faster than imaginable and all the 'how do I use clomid' or the 'can i drink winny' posts remain bumped for a week

A pitty bump


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Fonz

Elite Bodybuilder

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From:Mt. Olympus
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posted March 01, 2001 01:35 PM

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All good posts are doomed.
Thats my conclusion.

Godspeed

I'm bumping this up because
it contains very good info.


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Amp

Pro Bodybuilder

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posted March 01, 2001 01:38 PM

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Because half of the people here can't read or have such a short attention span that they can only focus on 2 or 3 sentences before their mind wanders elsewhere.


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Fonz

Elite Bodybuilder

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posted March 01, 2001 01:45 PM

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Right on the money amp.....

Godspeed


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mr.tomatoehead

Amateur Bodybuilder

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From:the tomatoe patch
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posted March 01, 2001 02:43 PM

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Thanks for the great post! I agree that most intelligent post are doomed to failure because people look at it and see big words, and scientific processes and say forget it. I'll just check out the WAR again. It's a good book, but things change with time, mistakes are found, and new ideas come to light. If people would just take a couple seconds to read these posts and take simple clues from context then they would benefit greatly from these types of posts. The only thing I can't seem to find any info on is whether or not I can drink my winny. j/k.


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Crash

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posted March 01, 2001 03:47 PM

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It's quite simple. For the most part, it is over most of the people's heads here on the board. If I wasn't going into healthcare, I'd be pretty clueless myself. Other people are just too lazy to read it...

------------------
Bodybuilding and sex...the only two places where size does matter.


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rocko

Amateur Bodybuilder

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posted March 01, 2001 04:03 PM

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these are my favorite posts, we need more of them, I'll bump this one everytime I log on to keep it at the top


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FatRat

Amateur Bodybuilder

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posted March 01, 2001 04:07 PM

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Yep, these are the ones that should be saved for future use.


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Daeo

Elite Bodybuilder

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From:Haddonfield, ILL
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posted March 01, 2001 04:09 PM

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Great post. I hate arguing with people about clomid usage during the cycle....

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DNP

Novice

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posted March 02, 2001 02:40 AM

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good article


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BigJay81

Guru

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From:LIFT UNTIL YOU DIE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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posted March 02, 2001 02:50 AM

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WOW REAL INFO!!!!!

------------------

Prospice tibi - ut Gallia, tu quoque in tres partes dividaris.
Lift
Until You Die!!!!!!!!

For Information on Injections and Syringes:
Great Information on Injections and Syringes


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body72

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posted March 02, 2001 04:32 AM

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Good post!! Bump


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white boy

Amateur Bodybuilder

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posted March 02, 2001 07:17 AM

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quote:
Originally posted by Amp:
Because half of the people here can't read or have such a short attention span that they can only focus on 2 or 3 sentences before their mind wanders elsewhere.

I disagree with you amp, if you were to do a search in the archives ("HPTA") you would find 150 threads and over 1000 post's. most of us understand hpta supresion, this is why the short cycles are becoming so popular so as not to supress the hypothalamus.
just because we don't jump up and hoot & holler over a certain thread don't assume it's because we can't read or have a short attention span and can only focus on 2 or 3 sentences at a time. that is the typical stereotype for a bodybuilder that we would like to change

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The_Iron_Game

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posted March 02, 2001 07:34 AM

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quote:
Originally posted by The_Iron_Game:
I will never understand why any post containing any good material or content falls off the page faster than imaginable and all the 'how do I use clomid' or the 'can i drink winny' posts remain bumped for a week

A pitty bump



White Boy he was replying to this question, you have yet failed to answer it, in fact all you have done is critisize as usual.


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paddy

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posted March 02, 2001 07:40 AM

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it,s called education and that,s what this board is all about,thanx iron.


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white boy

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posted March 02, 2001 09:09 AM

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iron game, it is a great post, realy (I was surprised )

to answer your question, the reason a good post gets dropped to the bottom is because of the high trafific on this board, I don't like it either but it's no reason to offend the other members (not saying that you did)and that is why I quoted AMP and defended the non-illiterate members of the board

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whore_moans

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posted March 02, 2001 09:14 AM

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to the top so newbies can save their nuts!


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ORGANON CANON

Olympian

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posted March 02, 2001 10:32 AM

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Great post! Now I hope that nobody tries to tell me different when I tell them that all clomid does during a cycle is act as a weak anti-estro.


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Amp

Pro Bodybuilder

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posted March 02, 2001 11:45 AM

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White Boy -

Most of the people on this board don't understand the topic. It's full of a bunch of 16 year olds that are wondering what to do with the pink pills someone just sold them. How many f-ing times a day does someone ask if they can drink winny. It doesn't matter how many posts are in the archives. There are new people on this thing everyday that don't know a thing and skip good topics like this.


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white boy

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posted March 02, 2001 11:59 AM

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I disagee with you amp, maybe you are just starting to understand, but the rest of us fully understand, yes there are alot of newbies but that is no reason to think the rest of us don't know what's going on, let alone know how to read or have a long enough atention span to read only 2 to 3 sentences, so speak for your self from now on

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Amp

Pro Bodybuilder

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posted March 02, 2001 12:15 PM

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Sounds like someone is a bit insecure with themself. I personally know 5 people on this board from my gym and if I asked them what HPTA suppression was they wouldn't know what the fuck I was talking about. For some reason you think I think that all bodybuilders are idiots. I have been lifting for 17 years and I have met a lot of smart people in the industry and I have met a lot of morons just like in anything else. If so many people on this board understand HPTA suppression why is it that everyday there is a "should I take clomid during cycle to keep my natural test level up. Can you answer that? If they understand something like HPTA suppression why don't they know simple things like what actually supresses the HPTA or why do I need to take time off of a cycle. You mentioned that you quoted me to defend the non-illiterates of the board. I wasn't referring to the non-illiterates. I was referring to all the illiterates. The non-illiterates don't need you defending them, they can take care of themselves and if they are secure in their own intelligence and knowledge they wouldn't be offended by what I wrote. I was referring to the people on here that can barely spell, and if you have read enough posts on here you would know what I'm talking about. They are the ones that don't take time to read 2 pages on HPTA suppression but will respond to "how much can you bench"


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The_Iron_Game

Freak

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posted March 02, 2001 12:37 PM

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White Boy, I take your point of view into account but to me it holds no merit. Everyone and their moms will agree this board has been on a downhill slope for the last few months possibly longer. Everyone is simply spitting out what else they have read. You know everyone cares so much about their post count that they reply to posts where the question has already been answered. Why? To try and show they are knowlegable? I dont know why but what I do know is can I drink winny is almost an every day even now that not only are the posts getting old but also the people who claim the posts are getting old is too getting old. 50 replies to can I drink winny where almost everyone replies yes while posts that are informative end up off the page never to be seen again.

Also you mention not everyone is a newbie and most on this board are knowlegable and know what they should. Look around friend, how many knowlegable posts are actually active right now? From a quick look I have seen sust or enanthate, clomid and dbol, how do i use clomid, can i really drink winny and the likes.

Peace

[This message has been edited by The_Iron_Game (edited March 02, 2001).]


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Amp

Pro Bodybuilder

Posts: 453
From:Anytown, USA
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posted March 02, 2001 12:44 PM

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Right on the money Iron Game!


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Julez

Elite Bodybuilder

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posted March 02, 2001 12:50 PM

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Very good post mate.

I guess the reason posts like this fall off so soon is because there is little else one can add!

By the way, you know one way you can tell if Clomid has started to work(!!)?

------------------
Julez
Truth and Justice
shall triumph over
Bullshit and Bureaucracy.


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The_Iron_Game

Freak

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From:
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posted March 02, 2001 12:56 PM

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Thicker loads? hehe


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rocko

Amateur Bodybuilder

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From:
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posted March 02, 2001 04:51 PM

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bump this one to keep it on top


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Geared

Amateur Bodybuilder

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posted March 02, 2001 05:09 PM

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Bump! This should stay up for awhile!


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