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Author Topic:   GHB-READ THIS-INFORMATIVE
macrophage69alpha
Moderator
(Total posts: 870)
posted March 12, 2000 06:19 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for macrophage69alpha   Click Here to Email macrophage69alpha     Edit/Delete Message
here I want to repost this to clear up some of the misconceptions about ghb

The FDA is a rogue, out-of-control bureaucracy. In the past, in its war
against dietary supplements, it has threatened people with criminal
prosecution for claiming that anti-oxidants prevent disease. It has made
giant food companies take words as innocuous as �ask your doctor� off cereal
boxes. It has instigated guns-drawn, Gestapo-like raids on 80-year old health
food store owners.
The American people might have thought they finally put an end to that
absurd oppression and won the war with the DIETARY SUPPLEMENT HEALTH &
EDUCATION ACT (DSHEA). But, for the FDA that was only a challenge to find new
ways to subvert the will of the American people.
Now the FDA has falsely taken the role of protector of date-rape victims
in a cold and calculated strategy to use the basic human revulsion for a
despicable crime of violence in order to further its agenda. It has been
waging a campaign of lies and mis-information to create emotional hysteria in
order to get Congress to do politically what it can�t do legally - classify a
dietary supplement, gamma-hydroxybutyrate (GHB), curiously both as Schedule I
(meaning it has no medical use) and Schedule III (requires a prescription),
in a �DATE-RAPE DRUG ACT.�
You can fool some of the people�
The FDA has fooled the media with cleverly worded press releases about GHB
and its related products, gamma-butyrolactone (GBL) and 1,4-butanediol (BDO).
It has fooled most members of 21 state legislatures by making sure only its
�experts� presented testimony at hearings. Now it�s trying to fool Con-gress
by making sure the only information members receive is from FDA-invited
�experts.�
But the FDA has not fooled everyone. In a series of FDA lawsuit losses,
federal courts have lambasted the FDA�s reasoning; calling it �absurd� and
�almost frivolous.� 1 The Government Accounting Office (GAO) has questioned
FDA regulations because of the �limitations and uncertainties associated with
the agency�s scientific and economic analyses.�2 The Honorable F. James
Sensenbrenner, Jr. (R-WI), Chairman of the House Science Committee, recently
stated, �I am concerned about the apparent lack of scientific data behind the
FDA�s actions.�
Chairman Sensenbrenner further stated, �(T)o use such poor science for a
dietary supplement raises warning flags for the other products the agency
regulates.� 3
GHB is a product for which the warning flags should be raised about FDA
�science.� Here are some FDA lies about GHB.

FDA Lie - GHB is a drug
GHB is a simple carbohydrate found naturally in every cell of the human body.
GHB is both a metabolite of and precursor to an amino acid consumed daily by
millions of Americans - gamma aminobutyric acid (GABA). DSHEA clearly states
that metabolites of amino acids are dietary supplements.
The FDA�s label of GHB as a �drug� is a lie. The language it uses, to
lead the media to label GHB as a �synthetic designer� or �date-rape� drug, is
gross misinformation.

FDA Lie - GHB has no medical uses
The FDA �experts� know they�re telling a lie when they state GHB has no
medical uses. In 1974, the FDA approved an Investigational New Drug (IND)
application for GHB that discussed 15 medical uses. GHB has been used safely
to treat cataplexy, insomnia, narcolepsy, depression, alcoholism, and opiate
addiction, and to stimulate natural growth hormone release, to name a few.

FDA Lie - GHB is hazardous
Patients in the IND trials are handed large containers of GHB; told to take
doses of 2 to 8 grams; and to come back when they need more. Something the
FDA would NOT allow if it truly believed GHB was �hazardous.�

Substance Tylenol EtOH NaGHB
Std. dose 1 gm 2 oz 2 gm
Lethal dose 10 gm 20 oz 300 gm
Safety Factor 10:1 10:1 150:1


The comparative safety of GHB is shown in the table at the top of this
column. The data (from Medline research) is from scientists doing primary
research; unlike FDA �experts� who give opinions based merely on anecdotal
reports. The data shows sodium-GHB (NaGHB) is far safer than acetaminophen
(Tylenol) or alcohol (EtOH).
National Toxicology Program reports on the GHB related substances GBL and
BDO contradict the FDA�s �science.� 4
Even the FDA contradicts the FDA. It has released a number of �Talking
Papers� stating it has received reports of adverse events and deaths
�associated� with GHB, GBL and BDO. When Freedom of Information Act (FOIA)
requests have been made for copies of those reports, the FDA�s FOIA office
has written that the FDA has no such reports. 5

FDA Lie - GHB is highly addicting
The 30 years of primary research reports prior to 1990 and the IND reports
all state GHB is non-addicting. In the FDA-supervised studies on narcolepsy,
no patient has ever become addicted to GHB. The scientific record is clear:
When GHB is used responsibly it�s not addicting. In fact, it is used to treat
addiction to alcohol and narcotics.

FDA Lie - GHB is a �date-rape� drug
Date rape is a very serious subject. So, it�s important to use science and
reason when discussing it. However, it�s such a traumatic topic that most
people are more influenced by emotional hysteria than reason. The FDA knows
this and plays upon that hysteria.
The use of any substance to facilitate date rape should be a crime. And
that�s already the law in many states.
GHB and many other substances the FDA has approved for insomnia can be
(but rarely have been)6 used to facilitate date rape since they can cause a
deep sleep. But that�s no reason to label GHB a �date-rape� drug any more
than Nytol, Tylenol PM, or Benadryl.
There are a few substances which truly should be labeled as �date-rape�
drugs. They enable a perpetrator to keep a victim conscious, but easily
compelled to engage in sex. They cause a victim to forget what happened while
under their influence. And they clear from the body fairly quickly, making
their detection difficult.
The only attribute GHB has in common with those substances is it clears
from the body quickly (and safely), as carbon dioxide and water. But, GHB
does NOT cause a person to remain conscious, engage in sex, and then not remem
ber what they did.
The FDA�s constant and repetitive linking of GHB together with those
substances diverts attention from counseling people on the real dangers of
the substance used most often to facilitate date rape, alcohol. The FDA�s
single-minded focus on GHB demeans victims by ignoring far more serious and
more wide-spread risks. It is tokenism the FDA uses in a very base manner to
further its agenda.

FDA synthetic designer �science�
In the 1980s, GHB was available in health food stores. GHB containers had
labels with dosage instructions and warnings. People were using it safely for
many health purposes.
In 1990, a private-sector pharmacist made an �amazing� discovery. Just 3
years after finishing her residency, Ms. Jo Ellen Dyer �discovered� what
world-class scientists had �missed� for 30 years - �GHB poisoning!�
What she really �discovered� was alcohol poisoning. Alcohol and GHB are
metabolized in the body by the same enzyme, alcohol dehydrogenase. If GHB and
alcohol are co-ingested, the toxic effects of alcohol are increased. Alcohol
poisoning, NOT �GHB poisoning� (sic) causes coma and seizure.
[State prosecutors pay Ms. Dyer up to $9,000 (taxpayer dollars) as a fee
for an hour of testimony about her �discovery.� Not much incentive to want
the truth known about GHB.]
Without holding hearings to ascertain the validity of this �discovery,�
the FDA simply issued a press release �ban� of GHB on Nov. 8, 1990. Fearing
FDA Gestapo-like raids, health food store owners took it off their shelves.
Unable to obtain GHB in health food stores, people bought �street� GHB.
It didn�t come with labels. Without the benefit of the labels, more people
unwittingly took high doses of GHB with excessive amounts of alcohol and
ended up in hospital emergency rooms.
Doctors, �educated� by the FDA about GHB symptoms, made reports of �GHB
poisoning� that were more �politically correct� than scientifically accurate.
The FDA used those reports and its press release �ban� as the basis of
briefings for state legilslatures and law enforcement personnel. It made sure
non-scientific people got the �right� picture. And the FDA hit upon its
unsavory strategy of �associating� GHB with �date-rape� drugs.

Suggested Congressional action
A rush to schedule a dietary supplement, under the guise of a �date-rape�
bill, without scientific debate, is a poor basis for public policy. Before
depriving millions of Americans of dietary supplements sold in hundreds of
health food stores, Congress should take the time to listen to testimony from
experts knowledgeable about the full scientific record on GHB. The requests
of those experts to be heard have been ignored by the FDA.
If Congress doesn�t take the time, the FDA will have succeeded in
manipulating Congress into doing politically what the FDA couldn�t do
scientifically. This will make a mockery of DSHEA and all the work the
American people put into getting it passed.


References:

1 see, e.g., Pearson v. Shalala 164 F3d 650.

2 �Dietary Supplements: Uncertainties in Analyses Underlying FDA�s Proposed
Rule on Ephedrine Alkaloids� (available at gao.gov).

3 Press Release 106-71, 1999 Aug 4.

4 Toxicology Reports TR-406 and TOX-54 (available at http://ntp-server.niehs.nih.gov).

5 Private correspondence of Ward Dean, M.D.

6 �Prevalence of drugs used in cases of alleged sexual assault� J. Anal.
Toxicol. 1999 23(3), 141-146. Preston Publications.

The writer of this message, Paul Anacker, J.D. ([email protected]), is a
private attorney. He is a former Chairman of Lawyers in Mensa International
(1979-1991). He has been a consultant to several dozen MDs and JDs on the
medical and legal aspects of GHB and related substances. He has received no
payment from anyone for writing this message (except contributions to
subsidize the cost to place it).

More details of FDA lies about GHB are in
�GHB: The Natural Mood Enhancer�
co-authored by Ward Dean, M.D.,
a West Point graduate and former
flight surgeon for Delta Force.
Information can be found at
ceri.com and smart-publications

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MP

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E2
Moderator
(Total posts: 1368)
posted March 12, 2000 07:52 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for E2   Click Here to Email E2     Edit/Delete Message UIN: 54337564
Great article thanks mac


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Slim Whitman
Amateur Bodybuilder
(Total posts: 44)
posted March 12, 2000 08:40 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Slim Whitman     Edit/Delete Message
Excellent info Mac...alcohol and cigarettes have killed and harmed more people in the time it took you to write that post than GHB EVER has...but yet they are LEGAL and ACCEPTED in todays society.

Only in America....

Slim

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THESAINT
Amateur Bodybuilder
(Total posts: 92)
posted March 12, 2000 08:53 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for THESAINT   Click Here to Email THESAINT     Edit/Delete Message
GREAT ARTICLE MACRO. I'M PRINTING IT
OUT RIGHT NOW AND SENDING IT TO MY
CONGRESSMAN AND SENATOR. TOGETHER,
MAYBE WE CAN MAKE A DIFFERENCE.

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macrophage69alpha
Moderator
(Total posts: 870)
posted March 12, 2000 09:01 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for macrophage69alpha   Click Here to Email macrophage69alpha     Edit/Delete Message
although I would love to take credit for that well written article, I cant, all I did was a cut and paste
I am glad you found it informative- the logic of the "War on Drugs" often deviates far from reality and relies on data, studies and anecdotal evidence that do not even EXIST.

Why wont the government re-allocate all the money it spends on propaganda,drug interdiction and incarceration towards legitimate education which will allow citizens to make an informed choice?

When will the government learn that their crusade of disinformation actually harms people more than it helps?

When will the government realize that what they have begun is "Prohibition part II" which has brought with it the same kind of violence and human suffering that came with the first one?

Why cant the government teach people the truth, maybe even educate them, and return to them the right of self determination that is supposedly the foundation of our society?

DONE RANTING- FOR NOW

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MP

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Mojo
Amateur Bodybuilder
(Total posts: 26)
posted March 12, 2000 09:55 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Mojo   Click Here to Email Mojo     Edit/Delete Message
Great article. And they say America is a free country. I know we need laws, but the more the American government dictates what we can and can't use, the more comunist this country becomes. What pisses me off even more is our tax money pays thier way.

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THESAINT
Amateur Bodybuilder
(Total posts: 92)
posted March 12, 2000 10:04 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for THESAINT   Click Here to Email THESAINT     Edit/Delete Message
BUMP THAT MOJO.

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A-mass
Pro Bodybuilder
(Total posts: 197)
posted March 12, 2000 10:22 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for A-mass     Edit/Delete Message
thanks for that post again, Macro.

100% agreement on the civil disobedience here.

------------------
-------------------

the alpha male


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egoman
Pro Bodybuilder
(Total posts: 143)
posted March 12, 2000 10:32 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for egoman   Click Here to Email egoman     Edit/Delete Message
outstanding mac. thanks

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babygirl
Amateur Bodybuilder
(Total posts: 44)
posted March 12, 2000 11:36 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for babygirl     Edit/Delete Message
Great article, very informative, helped a lot....THANKS!!
~Nikki

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D-Town
Amateur Bodybuilder
(Total posts: 82)
posted March 13, 2000 01:48 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for D-Town   Click Here to Email D-Town     Edit/Delete Message
Great article it confirmed some things that I alredy suspected about GHB and the FDA.

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spoon
Amateur Bodybuilder
(Total posts: 7)
posted March 13, 2000 03:59 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for spoon   Click Here to Email spoon     Edit/Delete Message
Thanks Macro! BTW Can somebody tell if that stuff is legally available in Scandinavia?

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Leroy
Pro Bodybuilder
(Total posts: 133)
posted March 13, 2000 12:19 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Leroy   Click Here to Email Leroy     Edit/Delete Message UIN: 62152588
Thanks for posting again MP !!! And tell me, how do you guys get GHB, buy it or make it ?? I heard that making it is danger, if you miss something you go 6 feet under, is it true ???

------------------
"What can be imagined, can be done" (I hope so...)

Take Care.
Leroy

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MC
Amateur Bodybuilder
(Total posts: 41)
posted March 13, 2000 01:46 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for MC     Edit/Delete Message
Leroy, over here in the UK it is legal(ish). You can't buy the powder in shops anymore, but you can buy the liquid in Sex shops, and my Gym sells the powder under the counter as with ephedrine

Go to http://ghb.webjump.com for some good info.

As to how to make it I intend to give it a go soon. So if you hear no more from me then you know it's trickier than it looks.

Keep this post going and I will try and find the link to the guide to making it.

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chestyII
Pro Bodybuilder
(Total posts: 319)
posted March 13, 2000 02:17 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for chestyII   Click Here to Email chestyII     Edit/Delete Message
What the government fears is a free society. It cannot afford to have a society that is informed/knowledgeable and can make their own choices.

In fact on a news program some while back, four senators were debating health care. Two republicans and two demacrats. The republican senators made the statement "we want the elderly to be able to choose their own doctors, to make their own informed choices" The democratic senators responded that that was a bad idea stating "we cannot trust that they will make the proper choice, they need us to make it for them".


As you can see we have more to fear than the hoolum on the street. Look at the rise of communism in Russia. Once Stalin got what he needed from his scientists and engineers he ordered their execution. Why? You can't have a society that thinks for itself and is informed if you want total control over them.

Okay, back to BodyBuilding

------------------
SEMPER FI
http://www.seriphos.net/CHESTYS/chesty.htm


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XXXL
Amateur Bodybuilder
(Total posts: 66)
posted March 13, 2000 04:34 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for XXXL   Click Here to Email XXXL     Edit/Delete Message UIN: 39468048
great post. i keep reading more and more about the "date rape" drug. many articals will only call it GHB once and from there on out refer to it as the date rape drug. this post points out something i've always though, alcohol is the biggest date rape drug of them all. one other point i've heard on the radio, think about all the people you've had sex with in your life. of those people, how many times had the two of you been drinking the first time you hooked up? i think back and think to myself "holy shit" 85% if the time.

there's too much money in corp. america to out law such things as alcohol and tobbaco. anyway, that's my two cents.

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NaLbUpHiNe
Pro Bodybuilder
(Total posts: 136)
posted March 13, 2000 08:20 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for NaLbUpHiNe   Click Here to Email NaLbUpHiNe     Edit/Delete Message
Bump!!!-----------------^
and if anyone knows a legit supplier email me! i sound like a newbie, damn

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FreakMonster
Amateur Bodybuilder
(Total posts: 35)
posted March 13, 2000 10:05 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for FreakMonster   Click Here to Email FreakMonster     Edit/Delete Message
Great article but I disagree about one thing. GHB can be highly addictive. More addictive than cocaine. My roomate had been taking it for 1 year everyday. He could not go to sleep with out it. Then he decided that he HAD to kick it. When he tried to stop cold turkey he couldn't sleep at all. He had been awake for almost 60 hrs when he started halucinating and all sorts of stuff. Finally after 4 days he got to sleep but he said it was extremely hard for him to stop cold turkey with the G.

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instynct999
Amateur Bodybuilder
(Total posts: 18)
posted March 14, 2000 10:32 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for instynct999     Edit/Delete Message
Very informative...thanks for posting it

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cybertronix1
Amateur Bodybuilder
(Total posts: 6)
posted March 14, 2000 04:17 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for cybertronix1   Click Here to Email cybertronix1     Edit/Delete Message
That article is so incredibly true, I just wish all of the dumbass sheep in congress would notice. I have been using GHB and it's precursers for about a year now, (NRG3, Renewtrient, Longevity, etc.) I admit, they are incredibly addicting if you let them, I had to go to a rehab hospital to get off of it. If I hadn't used it unreasonably, I would have never gotten addicted to it at all. It indefinately got me off of other addictions though, including alcohol. Wish I could get a hold of some G right now, hehe.

cybertronix1

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macrophage69alpha
Moderator
(Total posts: 870)
posted March 14, 2000 09:43 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for macrophage69alpha   Click Here to Email macrophage69alpha     Edit/Delete Message
bump
for those that missed it

------------------
MP

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