posted March 10, 2000 04:40 PM         

MY LADY IS HOPPING MAD RIGHT NOW BUT I COULDEN`T CARE LESS

I THINK I COULD USE GHB AS AN SUBSITUTE FOR ALCHOL IN THE FUTURE AND AVOID THE TOXIC CHEMOCAL THAT ETHANOL IS DO ANYONE ELSE USE GHB FOR THIS PURPOSE?

posted March 10, 2000 08:12 PM            

My guess is strym is sound asleep right now :-)

posted March 11, 2000 03:25 AM         

I DON`T SEEM TO TOLERATE ALCHOL THAT GOOD

posted March 11, 2000 06:48 AM         

I pay 0.3 $ for one gram

posted March 12, 2000 10:01 AM         

[This message has been edited by strym (edited March 12, 2000).]

posted March 12, 2000 01:48 PM            

Most of the legitmate deaths I have heard concerning ghb actually had nothing to do with GHB, but sodium hydroxide in stuff made in your roomates bathtub. (See what prohibition does? GHB is not to blame, crimilization is) Its cheaper and safer to make your own GHB. Its dirt simple, just mix 2 chemicals and boo-yaa, your a class 1 felony drug manufaturer! (in some states, at least) I checked out pubmed, and REAL doctors!!

, not those hired propaganda marionets that work for the FDA, did experiments that showed GHB actually IMPROVES your breathing.

It's only when mixed with alky that it causes "coma."

By the way, coma, in medical terms, means deep sleep.

When news man says coma, he could mean the common term,

but with GHB its usually just intentially deceptive inflammatory language. I have read other stories that demonize GHB, and they are, for the most part, a stinkin load of BS. Do a search on Pubmed for it, read about the hype, the propaganda, and the big money interest. Also read what the tFDA, the cops, and Moralists have to say, and make an informed decision. here are some links to get you started! This goes for any drug, not just ghb. http://www.lycaeum.org/ Info on drugs http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/PubMed/index.html free, unbiased reports by real doctors http://www.erowid.org more drug info, overlaps with

posted March 12, 2000 02:01 PM            

TOXICITY

As drugs go, GHB is about as "clean" as you can get. As an endogenous* regulator of energy metabolism and a natural neurotransmitter, it is well-known to the brain and organs.
They are used to its effects and have highly efficient systems for metabolizing it safely [150]. The substance is eliminated (that is, back to baseline levels) in 2-4 hours and continues to be so even after twice-daily doses for a week [10]. In one European study, no adverse effects were reported after several years of hypnotic* use [94]. The LD50 listed above is huge, and there is literally no danger of acute toxicity.

Many sources do report toxic and dangerous effects [37,38], [48], [70], but these are nearly inevitably caused by coingestion of other drugs (often alcohol), massive overdoses, or highly impure product. Others report effects that are inconsistent with many years of research and observation, and appear entirely fanciful [60].

ADDICTION
If you consider yourself "addicted" to chocolate, driving fast, or pro wrestling, you might find yourself in the same state with GHB. Physiological addiction, on the other hand, appears largely absent, as demonstrated by the above studies and others. Users have sometimes reported adverse physiological effects, but these resolve in 3-12 days without sequelae [33], and seem localized to users of very high or frequent doses (an figure often casually tossed out is 30g/day) or co-users of other drugs. Psychological addiction is tenuous at best. Colombo [12] reports that rats forced to consume massive doses of GHB will intermittently prefer GHB solution to water, but notes that "no rat showed any sign of withdrawal when GHB was finally removed at the end of the 20-week period" or during periods of voluntary abstinence.

Note that none of this means that GHB can't hurt you if you try really hard. In addition to the obvious dangers of driving while impaired or falling into a deep sleep in public places, there are reports of people who have managed to, for want of a more specific term, seriously mess themselves up by abusing GHB. If you take to carrying around a bottle and taking a gulp every time you begin to feel sober (as these individuals have been known to do), you are definitely going to develop problems. Needless to say, you would also have a problem if you carried around a bottle of Tylenol� and gulped one down every time you began to feel anything (this particular problem is referred to as "death"), or if you carried around a barrel of water and took some every time there wasn't anything in your mouth. My recommendation is to restrict yourself (unless you are under medical supervision or another structured program of therapeutic use) to two doses a day, no more than four days a week, and I would consider even that to be quite excessive.

My conclusion is that GHB cannot be called by any reasonable criteria addictive. If you have experienced difficulty with knowing when to stop (or when not to start) with alcohol or other drugs in the past, though, you should exercise caution with GHB. To reiterate the point above, with the right mindset and/or genetic misfortune, anything and everything can become addictive.

OTHER DANGERS
PLEASE, FOR MY SAKE IF NOT THAT OF YOUR OWN PRECIOUS LIFE, DO NOT EVER TAKE GHB AND ALCOHOL WITHIN A FEW HOURS OF EACH OTHER! The same goes for any tranquilizer or depressant. Their effects (or those of GHB; the difference is debatable) can be massively potentiated*, and even a reasonable dose can become dangerous. You won't hear me say this much, because it isn't true very much, but in this case it is incredibly important: if you use GHB wrong, it can kill you. Given GHB's abilities to induce seizures, at least in some animals, at ultra-high doses [6], [8], people with a history of epilepsy or convulsions should exercise care as well, and build up their dose very slowly, with others present.

Finally, I must note one more circumstance under which GHB can be wildly dangerous: when it is not GHB. Thanks to its governmental prohibition, most GHB now comes from what the FDA calls "clandestine labs" [13], but clandestine kitchens might be closer. Sodium hydroxide, used in GHB synthesis, is essentially lye, and there is at least one case of serious lung injury caused GHB that contained significant quantities [20]. Cheap syntheses with impure chemicals may contain almost any kind of toxin. Most common, though, is the simple fact that "street" GHB can range enormously in terms of concentration, and the user has no idea how much they are taking - just asking for an overdose.

All such grimness can be handily avoided by making your own! The instructions are readily available and you can use your own food-grade reagents available from chemical supply houses and resellers. The former are impossible for individuals to buy from without committing extensive fraud, but many organizations do buy these chemicals and resell them, either as they are or in pre-measured "kits." Expect to pay a significant markup, but not nearly what you'd pay a shady stranger for a few drops of unidentified organic molecules at a club. To learn more about GHB kits, go to my kit suppliers FAQ.
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posted March 12, 2000 02:02 PM            

Make no mistake, GHB can cause pain, expense, and tragedy if misused. You, of course, are not going to misuse it. Attend to these five points (each of which is elaborated in the full FAQ) and laugh in the face of Friedman*:
1. NO ALCOHOL!
Yes, I repeat myself: Alcohol and GHB potentiate* each other's effects [46], which makes the threat of respiratory arrest a deadly reality. Even small quantities can be hazardous. If I could impart but a single piece of advice through this FAQ, it would unquestionably be to leave this fell combination alone. Anything else that causes drowsiness or loss of physical control should also be avoided.

2. Bring a friend
Falling asleep in public is very, very bad. More than one person has suggested a "GHB-alert" bracelet that would tell passersby "let me sleep!" but the best way to avoid danger is to have someone on hand who can take care of you.

3. Know your source
Make sure the GHB is pure, and know the concentration so you get the proper dose. Essentially, this means never buying "street" GHB unless you know the dealer and are experienced with hir product. To buy or make your own, see the Supply FAQ

4. Know your dose
Useful and excessive doses can differ by very little.

5. Don't be stupid
You should no more drive under GHB's influence than under significant quantities of alcohol. If you're dancing, get adequate fluids and rest. Be aware that your judgment is somewhat clouded. The strange man asking you to follow him is probably not your long-lost uncle Earl.

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posted March 12, 2000 02:03 PM            

First, seriously consider "none." GHB may be "clean*"; GHB may be safer and less toxic than alcohol; GHB may be a generally benign drug - but it is still a drug and the decision to put it into your brain should be made with respect and caution. I intend to provide the information to ensure that those who choose to employ it can do so safely, but I do not want to make it seem too casual.

If you have decided to try it, the first step is to find your dose. I will express doses in grams*, although the most readily available way to measure liquid is by volume (usually teaspoons*) from a liquid solution of known concentration. This is yet another reason to make your own GHB. After performing the synthesis, you should know exactly how much you have, and can then dissolve it in water and dilute it to any volume you please, setting up a ratio to determine how much is in any one measure.

Begin on a day when you have taken no other drugs, have several hours to spare, and can count on someone to look after you and know how to react if you doze (answer: turn you face-down and leave you alone). Take no more than 1g, and for several hours observe the effects carefully.

If you desire something stronger, and do not feel yourself irresistibly tranquilized, the next night you can increase the dose by a gram, and continue until you reach an optimal level. Many people do use it as a sleep aid; Mamelak et al. determined that it is "potentially useful for the large number of patients who have difficulty falling asleep but who once asleep are able to remain so."[4]

Generally speaking, an aphrodisiac or sensitizing dose is between .5 and 1.5g, with the relaxing and stimulating effects coexisting with a light inebriation * as one approaches 3g. Medical sources report soporific* doses of 1.2-3g [7], [4], [47], [33], although the lower doses in this range are usually taken by subjects who are prepared to sleep, and there are definitely records of people remaining awake at these levels [9]. Anything over 4g may reach into the "unarousable sleep" category and should not be approached without carefully probing your sensitivity to GHB beforehand, as discussed above.