posted March 02, 2000 02:05 PM            

This is kind of a continuation of your thread, but also a new theme, a new point of view.

First, I am perplexed by the people who would never do steroids but smoke weed, do coke, whatever.......I remember your last post too.

This is a little personal, but informative. For a while I was living wiht a coke addict - my girlfriend (I got involved before I knew how bad it was). She was also addicted to prescription pain-killers (because it's hard to sleep if you're on coke every day), and would be on acid maybe twice a week.

She also has a 5 year old son. She's 23.

After I saw how bad the problem was (I thought it was a recreational thing, until I moved in, I didn't know how bad it was), I told her it had to be either me or the drugs.

She said she was going to quit. She went off the coke. She stopped with the acid. But still she was on the painkillers - strong shit, like 20 a day.

I stayed with her, checked her into rehab, (at considerable personal expense of time and money) did whatever I could. For a while she was clean, but she invariably went back to taking the pain pills. This happened two or three times.

She couldn't stop. Now, her kidneys are failing (this is a 23 year old!!!) and she is hospitalized.

As I got to know her I saw that her life had been pretty fucked up, (I AM NOT TRYING TO MAKE EXCUSES!!) alcoholic father, etc.

The drugs were simply a Band-Aid. She sees herself as worthless, got pregnant at 18, never thought she had anything to look forward to, so in her mind, what is the difference if she treats herself like shit?

So what I am saying is, to addicts, the drugs are just a Band Aid, covering internal wounds.

To recreational users, (when I was in college I smoked some weed, but that's it....) it is most often a question of peer pressure, or a belief that "I can party now, and live life later", that there will be no consequences for these actions.

I know this post isn't really about juice, but I hope there is some worthwhile knowledge in here......

Matt

posted March 02, 2000 02:06 PM            

Jon

posted March 02, 2000 02:40 PM            

I think that's why i never got into drugs, well other than juice. I think it's to easy to get caught up in it all.

But all of us are drug users, and if you're not careful you could easily get caught up in juice and end up with a bunk liver.

posted March 02, 2000 03:48 PM            

You are right, as usual.

But I think it logically follows that we use drugs in order to strengthen our bodies, and make the effort to learn about what we are using. (Quite a few don't, I realize)

I mean, I know the chemical make-up of testosterone but not any recreational drugs.

I think it is safe to say that more steroid users do research about the drugs than rec. drug users do. I believe that is because we are willing to confront our situations, i.e. we want to gain muscle mass and develop stronger bodies.

Rec drug users generally understand that what they are doing is harmful, but they are doing it either to cover something or out of peer pressure.

Diiferent reasons, different consequences. Judicious steroid use can have benficial effects. That is not true for rec. drugs.

posted March 02, 2000 04:08 PM            

gotta disagree

many people find beneficial effects from recreational drug use- just becuase those benefits are social or psychological does not make them of less value than physical enhancements made possible through the use of AS.

Many people dont do any research and just start popping pills or taking injections- this goes for both AS and Rec drugs.
This does not justify the vilification of either.

drugs are not evil. it is their improper implementation-ie not well thought out implementation- that is the cause of so much harm- true of AS as it is of Rec drugs.

Knowlege is power
Power is freedom
Freedom is responsibility

or at least thats my interpretation of things

posted March 02, 2000 10:33 PM            

I respect what you have gone through and still go through (I know it is an ongoing problem). I went through the same situation last year. My girlfriend did not have a child, thank God for that. She could not handle the responsibility. I watched her down grade herself by using Cocaine and alcohol. Just because the Coke was illegal and the alcohol is not does not mean her addiction was any less.

I begged her to stop and get help. I even supported her when she quit work to try to get out of that environment. She was a dancer. She stopped for awhile, but would always find a way to go back to the drugs. I could have moved her to the country or out of the country. It would not matter. She found the drugs no matter what. I do not want to think of how she paid for them.

Regardless, I would take her to NA meetings. She would go through the motions. I would be happy for her. She was just lying to me (bad) and to herself (worst of all). I finally found out some things about her that I could not forgive. I moved on and wished her the best. I have been apart from her for ten months and she is still messed up. She has issues that she has to deal with. I do not miss her, but still do not wish ill for her.

I guess what I am trying to say is you cannot fix anyone who is broken. They have to want to fix themselves first. The old saying is true, "Noone can love you til you love yourself."

What you have done is admirable. I hope your girlfriend's child, your girlfriend, and you the best. I know it is a long hard road.

posted March 03, 2000 12:20 AM            

We still talk. I made it clear that I care very much, but also that I can't be with her if she doesn't love herself. I saw that she is, as you say, falling into the sewer...and
I am standing just outside of it, lowering a rope. But I am not jumping in. I did once already.

Triton,

Amen. It's a hard road. It is interesting, but just because you care about someone, doesn't mean they will start to care about themselves. When/if she wants to change, she will. Not before.

Macro,

You're difficult to disagree with. I've learned a lot from you. And I understand your point. Drugs are not evil. I have seen the misery they can bring, but people should still be given the choice.

Recreational drugs can have some benefit to people. And AS can be harmful if mis-used.

It's just that, people usually start AS with the goal of improving themselves. The reasons for use of rec drugs are often more questionable.

posted March 03, 2000 12:40 PM            

Thanks for all the support and honest, candid feedback.

Xman, I agree about the drug laws, and their enforcement. The examples of this silliness are too many to list, but thank you for yours.

I agree (as previously stated) that drugs themselves are neither harmful nor beneficial. It is in our use of them.

Agreed also, that she is an adult and can make her own choices.

It is true as well, that she is filling a big hole in her life with this.

Thanks again bros!