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Author	Topic: Off cycle strategies
Mr. Nobody Amateur Bodybuilder (Total posts: 10)	posted February 25, 2000 03:28 PM By now everybody should know how to cycle and what to take. I would like to discuss estrogen and cortisol reduction as well as test boosting strategies. Here is mine: While on cycle: HCG week 3 and week 5 Clomid week 4 thru week 8 Cytadren week 2 thru week 8 While off cycle: to reduce cortisol and boost test: Clomid (for 3 weeks), DHEA, Vit C, Vit A, Phosphaditeldum (or whatever that shit is called),Glutamine, Niacin, Gingko, Zinc, Vit E,; all that every am and pm; ECA and Acetyl L-Carnitine only am and before w/o; to increase volume: insulin and creatine load for a week, then regular creatine intake; 2 gal of water every day, Glycerol 2-6 hrs before w/o to reduce estrogen and DHT: (besides Clomid), Flaxseed meal, at pm, Saw Palmetto and sometimes isoflavones from soy am and pm; to boost growth hormone: Valium eod for 2 weeks workouts: heavy weights for 1 hour, grape jiuce and creatine afterwards; things to avoid that depress test production: boredum, depression, all negative emotions (except aggression), consiquently opposite emotions boost test; This post is for hardcore only, no newbie questions. I would like to hear additional strategies taken in off-cycle from pro(especially E2) IP: Logged
Mr. Nobody Amateur Bodybuilder (Total posts: 10)	posted February 25, 2000 04:59 PM Oh and I forgot Tribulus testi, every pm IP: Logged
jabber Amateur Bodybuilder (Total posts: 9)	posted February 25, 2000 05:21 PM Thats a s***load of stuff. HCG during mid cycle for two weeks, and one week after last anabolic, take it for two weeks. During second week of HCG (at the end) take tribulus with dhea for two weeks. After the HCG is done use clomid 100mg/day for two weeks. This should help reduce after effect, although I have noticed that I tend to get acne when I use this stuff, anyone else have that happen? IP: Logged
Joseph_stalin Pro Bodybuilder (Total posts: 168)	posted February 25, 2000 05:59 PM what about clenbuterol. It is said to be anti-catabolic. but i don't know if that is proven. if you take 20 mg dianabol a day, 10 mg when you wake up and 10 mg 4 hours later, that will provide both anabolic & anti-catabolic effects for when you are off cycle. IP: Logged
madbomber31 Pro Bodybuilder (Total posts: 287)	posted February 25, 2000 07:57 PM first, joey, thats the second time i saw you recommend that people take 10mg of dbol twice a day... that is not being off... last time i checked dbol was a steroid, and not a mild one at that... it will shut down your test production faster then seing a naked mama from throw mama from the train. now, as for the topic, way too much stuff!!! short simple list... here is what i use and what i think works and why. PS- blocks cort production by 30% after training, gotta be worth something. trib- increases LH which increases test, boosting natural production Clomid- basically trib on steroids. HMB-prevents protein breakdown... so it stops your body from eating its own tissue. Zinc- increases free test Mag- helps ya sleep, recover, and is essential for growth. a good ole multi vitamin- take at a different time then the zinc so the calcium doesnt effect the zinc uptake by the body. glutamine- do i really have to say anything? if you dont think the clomid and trib are enough, throw in some aveena sativa, does the same thing essentially. IP: Logged
Joe Juicer Pro Bodybuilder (Total posts: 193)	posted February 25, 2000 08:05 PM Dude. Valium?! ------------------ * A 23 Gaugue Haiku * no more injections my ass is a pin cushion take the needle out! IP: Logged
Joseph_stalin Pro Bodybuilder (Total posts: 168)	posted February 25, 2000 08:17 PM no it won't. the half life of dbol is so short that if you dose it properly it will not shut down test production. IP: Logged
Primo57 Pro Bodybuilder (Total posts: 296)	posted February 25, 2000 08:33 PM I personally use Cyclofenil, Proviron, Clomid, 30g creatine, (Valium, Sonata, Ambien, Trazadane, diazepam - I'm an insomniac), HCG 5000 (depends), silymarin, and of course ass loads of H20, vitamins, Omega-3/6 oil, Uva Ursi, and Casein/whey protein combo.Of course my timing and doses vary for me, but you sound like you have your shit together! IP: Logged
madbomber31 Pro Bodybuilder (Total posts: 287)	posted February 25, 2000 09:45 PM joeseph, please post any site or any page of a book or study that says dbol will not shut down your test production... IP: Logged
Joseph_stalin Pro Bodybuilder (Total posts: 168)	posted February 26, 2000 06:53 AM you have to go to mesomorph. They charge now so i can't get in to get the data. but bill roberts started the theory. And he recommended it on the 2 on 4 off cycles as an anti-catabolic measure. If you can get into mesomorph you should be able to find it. IP: Logged
E2 Pro Bodybuilder (Total posts: 946)	posted February 26, 2000 01:15 PM Nobody, you seem to have a few things right, but i'd change a few things. First the hcg, forget about don't take it just stay away from it. Take clomid eod during all your cycle and at the end and you'll never need hcg again. Secondly the cytraden, i don't like at all, it stops the conversion of cholesterol into pregnolone, which does stop estrogen producion but also maybe also TESTOSTERONE production. Now that's something i really wouldn't want to do, especially post cycle. Also it makes me sleepy, which is not bad if i take it before bed but other than that i don't wanna be lazy. Now to reduce cortisol, one of the best things you can do is finish your cycle with some trenbolone, fina or primo, both of these will harden you up but will as well help to downregulate some cortisol receptors. I personally don't like to take insulin but that's up to you, you can try something like glipizide(sp?) each morning to help increase your natural insulin as well as gh. I would also take the eca three times a day especially if you are packing on some fat form the insulin, as well after a cycle i like to get ripped to the bone. I can't stand having fat on me. When you take your creatine after your workout, use a combination of grape and grapefruit juice. 100% pure. The grapefruit will help to reduce stomach acidity as well it help enhance absorption of many chemicals. Take your eca with grapefruit juice and i guarantee you'll see a difference. Everything else looks fine, there was an article i was reading by dharkham about preventing the ubiquitim(sp?) and calpain(proteases) from breaking down muscle, there are some new drugs that are supposed to prevent this, but i have mu suspicions that they would also severly cut into your ability to contract your muscles and reduce strength incredibly. yeah i found the article http://www.mesomorphosis.com/exclusive/dharkam/anab1.htm Have fun IP: Logged
biggmack Amateur Bodybuilder (Total posts: 46)	posted February 26, 2000 05:17 PM Half to 3 Quarters of that shit won't help at all. The only thing "it'll" do is burn a giant fucking whole in your pocket. IP: Logged
LV 426 Amateur Bodybuilder (Total posts: 24)	posted February 26, 2000 07:31 PM joe-madbom in dan duchaine's dirty dieting newsletter number 2 may 1997 dan makes reference to a study "THE LANCET(1976, v2, p669)-100mg/day of Dianabol by 11 athletes for six weeks. Despite the fairly high dose,LH/FSH was not inhibited at all. What was different about this study? Instead of dividing the dose through the day as most bodybuilders do, these athletes received the Dianabol in a single dose" this article states that this pattern also benefits the liver. there is no mention of muscle gains or training i believe that off is off but when using orals maybe this would be good dosing pattern to use until your own body is back on track IP: Logged
Joseph_stalin Pro Bodybuilder (Total posts: 168)	posted February 27, 2000 09:08 AM haven't heard of that. dianabol is broken down at the rate of 20-30% an hour. so if you had 100 mg in your system, in 12 hours there will only be about 4 mg in your system. that could work. because you would have 12 hours to restart test production before you redosed again IP: Logged
LV 426 Amateur Bodybuilder (Total posts: 24)	posted February 27, 2000 02:02 PM yea-joe i think the idea is to work with the bodies natural cycle.high in the morning and decreases thru the day. i had thought that during the taper in a cycle instead of removing(lets say were on 40mg of dbol)5mg every couple of days it was just taken first thing in the morning so over a two week taper of 10mg every 4hrs dosing pattern would look like this 10-10-10-10 15-10-10-5 20-10-10 25-10-5 30-10 35-5 40 or maybe just go straight to a morning dose i have never tried this or know anybody who has--but i will in the future(also one would need more dbol per cycle) IP: Logged
wretched Amateur Bodybuilder (Total posts: 49)	posted February 27, 2000 02:07 PM Bump IP: Logged
d1734 Amateur Bodybuilder (Total posts: 12)	posted February 27, 2000 03:40 PM what about replacing grapefruit with grapefruit extract? would this work as good? you wouldn't be getting the extra calories that way. and the stuff is cheap. tell me what you guys think. IP: Logged
madbomber31 Pro Bodybuilder (Total posts: 287)	posted February 27, 2000 04:18 PM LV and joeseph.. very interesting... an off cycle, of dbol i may like that if it indeed does not supress the test production... hmmm, this must be looked into more by me. IP: Logged
Primo57 Pro Bodybuilder (Total posts: 296)	posted February 27, 2000 06:52 PM Bump, lots of informative replies. IP: Logged
Mr. Nobody Amateur Bodybuilder (Total posts: 10)	posted February 28, 2000 08:14 AM Wow, now thats what I call a discussion, somebody said it was a lot of money, look at the products, many of them are just vitamins, which you should take anyway, it's the timeing thats different. Valium, I read on the nuclearnutrition web-site, it produces a nice spike in the gh prod., as long as you do it at nite (2.5 mg only!!!!!) E2: I like your ideas, except Cytatren, I take it while I am on, early in the cylce, before I start my HCG and clomid, so supression of test prod. is not a factor (it's being suppressed anyway by the test), I am trying to minize the estrogen convertion. But I did find out, that I don't convert much at all, so maybe next time, I drop it altogether and wait for estrogen signs (uncontrolable crying, and an urge to have chocolate.....just kidding) That was a nice round, lets keep it up! IP: Logged

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