posted February 16, 2000 03:02 PM            

Here goes:

400 mg primo depot/week (2 doses @ 200)
50 mg winstrol depot/ day

for 4 weeks
then 2 weeks of 50mg clomid a day

I am 29 yo been training for 8 years and would like a cycle that gives mostly permanent gains and little side effects. 10-15lbs. of lean gain and some fat loss would be ideal. Obviously a little more would be nice but I'll sacrifice overall gains for more safety. Also I don't want it to be too obvious at work. All of these led me to winny and primo--supposedly a good synergy as well.

I will probably do some clen 2 weeks before--to start the cylce with a low %BF and 2 weeks after (with the clomid) and so to help maintain some gains and burn more fat. It seems 4 weeks off clen should be enough time for it to work again.

I know this is expensive as far as "bang for the buck" but that is not a concern. I'd hope this would be my only cycle--O.K. you can stop laughing now.

My main concerns are anti-estrogen dosing / type and if 4 weeks is good or go for more 6-8wks or less (2on 4off). Or is that all bullshit. Other options would be inclusion of d-bol @25mg day (supposedly synergistic with the two others and fairly safe at that dose) but then more anti-est. questions pop up. Should cytadren be used for dbol instead of (or with) clomid. I read that it is better at blocking conversion to estradiol (the girlie bad stuff of dbol).

The last concern would be the need or use of HCG. 5000IU a week at the end w/clomid or is this cycle not in need of that.

posted February 16, 2000 03:43 PM            

I would'nt use the HCG
The D-bol, well thats up to you. They say Arnie luved D-bol & Primo.

After four weeks if you like what your seeing then keep it going. I dont think anything major is going to happen as far as gains, but you should get what your looking for.

posted February 16, 2000 04:06 PM            

Take clomid during the cycle and at the end. You should only need two weeks of clomid at the end of the cycle.

Forget the dbol this should do you fine for your goals.

posted February 16, 2000 04:17 PM            

------------------
even my battle with death could only keep me out of the gym for 35 days

posted February 17, 2000 12:04 PM            

I've also read from a few sites/sources that 5-600mg of test enth/cyp week might just be the simplest/cheapest/best way to go--recongnize that there will be some water gains / possible side effects and get over it.

If I were to reverse my original idea and go this route would the standard 50mg of clomid EOD during (nolvadex on hand in case) and 2 week clomid "thearapy" afterwords be sufficent?

The main contradictary source I see is Bill Roberts saying that cytadren (125mg) day should also be used. No where else do I hardly ever see cytadren being mentioned. So screw the cytadren and just keep clomid & nolvadex insurance or not? (Hopefully enough of a variation on the typical anti-est quest)

posted February 17, 2000 12:18 PM            

My first cycle consisted of:
Sus250 and d-bol.
I did a 12 week cycle with 1cc of sus a week for the first 3 and last 3 weeks and for the 6 weeks between 2cc's of sus.

D-bol was at 25mg or 5 tabs a day.

I know it seems like a whimpy first cycle to most, but as for me, I was like how you describe yourself and your needs. With the hard work and determination by the end of that cycle I definately got the gains I wanted which is what you're saying you want. Just remember the clomid with it and that's my opinion.

posted February 17, 2000 02:30 PM            

all that being said clomid works just fine- if the nuts seem to get too small or you are holding to much mater just move to ED instead of EOD.