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  White Death - Your Killing Yourself

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Author Topic:   White Death - Your Killing Yourself
WarLobo
Pro Bodybuilder
(Total posts: 117)
posted February 03, 2000 02:19 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for WarLobo   Click Here to Email WarLobo     Edit/Delete Message
I posted this on another board last year and thought ya might enjoy it. It's mostly a compellation from a few books and web article I've read over the last few years.... Since then, I've made a serous effort to limit my intake and believe this has contributed to one of my best year in lifting - ever!

Lobo


Sugar Invasion: In The Beginning (highlights)

In colonial America, table sugar cost around $2.40 a pound, but now sugar is around $0.30 a pound. Adjusted for an average 4% rate of inflation, that pound of sugar would have cost us about $6,800 a pound in today's dollars!! No wonder it was never
used much back then!

In 1795, a large-scale method of granulating sugar was devised, and Louisiana farmers began growing sugar cane as a major crop. (Sugar was first refined from cane or beets. )

During the 70's, high fructose corn syrup was introduced and is now the most widely used type of refined sugar.

Glucose, as high in calories as refined sugar, is actually a predigested food that undergoes no processing at all in the stomach OR intestines. Glucose, not as sweet tasting as sugar, is widely used as a cheap filler and is not required by the FDA to be listed on the label. (very convenient huh?!)

In 1994, FDA research shows sugar consumption averaged 149 pounds per person per year. This is @37 teaspoons per day.

As little as two teaspoons of sugar can cause a radical change in the balance of micro nutrients and the delicate ratios required for growth.

The minerals needed to digest sugar: Chromium, manganese, cobalt, copper, zinc, and magnesium. All of which have been stripped from sugar during the refining process and must be supplied by the body further depleting mineral reserves and thereby disrupting the body's chemistry.

Refined Sugar includes: sucrose; fructose; glucose; dextrose; levulse; maltose; raw sugar; turbinado sugar; maple sugar; galactose; brown sugar; dextrine; barley malt; rice syrup; corn sweetener, corn syrup, high fructose corn syrup, and yes, even honey. All of these are simple sugars. They take very little time to digest and get into the bloodstream where they perform the same disturbance to your body chemistry as table sugar. (some are worse than others of course)


The White Grim Reaper & How it Attacks:

In the body, minerals rule over all other nutrients. Vitamins, proteins, amino acids, carbohydrates, fats and enzymes require minerals for activity. Trace minerals, such as zinc, chromium, and copper are needed in small amounts. They are, however, no less important to the functioning of the body than are the macro mineral - calcium, magnesium, potassium, sulphur, and chloride. Of the 84 known minerals, 17 are considered to be essential, if there is a shortage of just one of these essential minerals, the
balance of activity in the entire system can be thrown off, negatively impacting the entire chain of growth and further rendering other nutrients ineffective and useless.

Sugar directly impacts the endocrine system and determines which minerals are going to be most affected. This system is made up of several organs - or glands and is the automatic pilot of processes in the body. It regulates all involuntary activities. Some
of which are: respiration; heartbeat; digestion, assimilation, and elimination of food; body temperature; and others, all come under the supervision of the endocrine glands. The endocrine glands include the pituitary, the thyroid, the parathyroid, the hypothalamus, the adrenals, part of the pancreas, the thymus, the pineal, and the gonads. These glands are characterized by their ability to produce chemical messengers called HORMONES. Sugar directly reduces the efficiency of the glands causing both a decrease and increase in hormone secretion. When ingesting sugar, certain glands are accelerated to function at a faster-that-normal speed. These glands include the pancreas, which secretes the insulin needed to metabolize sugar, and a part of the adrenal gland called the adrenal medulla, which produces epinephrine (adrenaline). Epinephrine is the hormone responsible for stimulating the breakdown of stored glycogen back to the usable glucose. These glands also control the assimilation of calcium; the faster they work, the more calcium is absorbed into the blood. Other glands, such as the thyroid and the adrenals, are reduced to a slower-than-normal activity level due to sugar. These glands control the assimilation of
phosphorus. So just as the overstimulation of the calcium regulators causes an increase in calcium, the suppression of these phosphorus regulators leads to a decreases in phosphorus. Such a decrease means an OVERALL REDUCTION in usable calcium even as the overall calcium level in the blood rises. This results a calcium-phosphorus imbalance. This calcium-phosphorus imbalance renders the body less capable of breaking down proteins into amino acids. (ARE YOU HEARING THIS?) Among other uses, amino acids are also the essential building block of HORMONES. Moreover, with less
protein, insulin begins to diminish resulting in an insulin deficiency.

Our metabolism is also directly influenced. Metabolism is the process by which food is broken down into essential nutrients that can be absorbed by the cells of the body. This function is performed by enzymes, and enzymes are influenced by minerals - which are unbalanced by sugar. Most enzymes are, in fact, mineral dependant and not only work to digest food, but to bring about certain necessary biochemical functions. Chymotrypsin, for example, is a zinc-dependent enzyme needed to fine-tune carbohydrate metabolism and it is also used to counteract inflammation and reduce swelling! If and when we eat sugar, it is difficult for the body to digest and metabolize anything in the small intestine due to the lack (or decrease) of functioning enzymes.

The first organ of the endocrine system to come into contact with ingested foods is the pancreas. Insulin, a hormone secreted by the pancreas, is responsible for controlling the amount of sugar in the bloodstream. When we ingest sugar, or blood sugar level goes up. Clusters of endocrine cells in the pancreas, called the islets of Langerhans, detect this excess sugar and secrete insulin. The hypothalamus is also highly sensitive to changes in blood sugar. It is this endocrine reflex causing the release of insulin which brings the body's sugar level back to normal. However, this overstimulation of the pancreas by continuous and over consumption of sugar, eventually causes blood sugar levels to drop below normal (hypoglycemia) as well as further depleting mineral stores to process this excess sugar. But wait, there is more. In addition to insulin, the islets secrete another hormone called glucagon, which stimulates the release of glycogen, a sugar stored in the liver and tissues to compensate for the dramatic drop in blood sugar (again caused by the over stimulation and ingestion of sugar). This mechanism eventually wears out from
overuse and glycogen released diminishes resulting in a craving to restore blood sugar level by eating more sugar! A very, very nasty cycle indeed. But sugar isn't done yet, there are other ramifications.

When we eat sugar and our blood sugar rises, insulin levels in our blood also must rise. The thyroid gland must now secrete the hormone thyroxin into the bloodstream to open the receptor cells and allow insulin into the cells. This process diminishes and exhausts the thyroid, and since the thyroid regulates metabolic functions, everything in the body slows down. Blood moves through the body more slowly decreasing the delivery of nutrients. This slow down further inhibits the ability of the enzymes to digest food. As such, food will begin to putrefy in the small intestine causing inflammation reaction by which the intestine uses protect itself (and the colon) from the undigested proteins. This inflammation and resulting mucus makes the intestine diameter smaller. This again reduces and slows down not only feces (commonly called constipation), but the whole digestive process and makes it nearly impossible for what little nutrients that may have been available to reach the bloodstream. This also allows harmful bacteria the time they need to SEEP back into the wall of the colon and become toxic - ouch! And lets not mention the resulting intestinal gas as a result of improper metabolic functions.

But all is not lost, there is a cure so to speak. There are no up-front costs, you do not have to finance a dime, or incur any cost what so ever. You do not have to find a source, or worry about getting scammed. All you have to do is STOP EATING PROCESSED AND REFINED SUGAR. Don't try to go cold turkey, just take it one step at a time. Maybe then first thing you could do is stop drinking sodas, or just stop eating candy bars. But what ever you do, stop FRICKING EATING SUGAR!

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E2
Pro Bodybuilder
(Total posts: 375)
posted February 03, 2000 02:44 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for E2   Click Here to Email E2     Edit/Delete Message UIN: 54337564
No more sugar for me, mmm maybe just one more piece of cake first....


E2

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chesty
Amateur Bodybuilder
posted February 03, 2000 03:40 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for chesty   Click Here to Email chesty     Edit/Delete Message
Have not eaten sugar in almost four years, save a candy bar or teaspoon now and then. Maybe a total of 8 oz in four years.

Yep I agree with you on the sugar.

Chesty

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devrimbal
Amateur Bodybuilder
(Total posts: 24)
posted February 03, 2000 04:22 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for devrimbal   Click Here to Email devrimbal     Edit/Delete Message
I aggree with the above said. There is a book I'd like to recommend that supports the statements made here. It's called The Protein Power Life Plan (Warner Books). Our ancestors did not have access to refined sugars through out their evolution and there for our bodies are not prepared to handle it in excess amounts. Refined sugars are products of modern science and we're trying to undo the damage with science (drugs, diet pills, etc.) Instead correcting the problem merely lies in avoiding the problem(refined sugar). Which one you'd rather do? Get into a car accident and get the car fixed or avoid in getting into a car accident?

------------------
db

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Adonis
Pro Bodybuilder
(Total posts: 117)
posted February 03, 2000 04:25 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Adonis   Click Here to Email Adonis     Edit/Delete Message
YIKES!!!!!! Kill the white BEAST......

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naprox
Pro Bodybuilder
(Total posts: 104)
posted February 03, 2000 06:45 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for naprox   Click Here to Email naprox     Edit/Delete Message
I do not believe a word of it. I have two solid sources who tell me sugar is good. The best built teen in Canada and Dave P both, have told me that sugar is the defining characteristic of their physiques! What have you to say about that?


hehehe

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HARDBALL2
Pro Bodybuilder
(Total posts: 130)
posted February 03, 2000 06:55 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for HARDBALL2   Click Here to Email HARDBALL2     Edit/Delete Message
I LOVE SUGAR TOO... Does that mean that the carbs in GATORADE, becuase of sugar, are bad for me??? I LOVE GATORADE!!!

GET HUGE AND DROP BOMBS!!

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bird-dog
Amateur Bodybuilder
(Total posts: 20)
posted February 03, 2000 08:28 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for bird-dog   Click Here to Email bird-dog     Edit/Delete Message
Not all white powders are bad!!
Just my first though on the topic

Bird-dog

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WarLobo
Pro Bodybuilder
(Total posts: 117)
posted February 04, 2000 01:53 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for WarLobo   Click Here to Email WarLobo     Edit/Delete Message
devrimbal, I am very impressed with your astute reply - two thumbs up.

Naprox, you beyond help so there is little I can do - cept sign you up for some private personal training class with our next Canadian Mr. O and hope you finally come to realize his potential :P

Hardball2, YES! YES! YES! Read the label!!!

Bird-dog, a.... humm.... (sniff)... well yah, good point :^)


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macrophage69alpha
Pro Bodybuilder
(Total posts: 378)
posted February 04, 2000 01:59 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for macrophage69alpha   Click Here to Email macrophage69alpha     Edit/Delete Message
SORRY TO LAZY TO STOP EATING THE WHITE DEATH>
does it help that I offset the damage by taking 600mg-1g of alphalipoic acid to inhibit glycosylation of proteins and which also increases my insulin sensitivy. or the 4 - 6gr of C. or the 200-400mg of grapeseed extract- do I really need to go on- if I dont get something from my diet I compensate for it. I hate vegetables so I have to scarf down about 20 of those spirulina tabs a day. did I leave out the 2 tablspoons of flax.

I realize that processed foods are bad- but I try to compensate- at this point changing my eating habits is not a viable option.

------------------
MP

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WarLobo
Pro Bodybuilder
(Total posts: 117)
posted February 04, 2000 02:12 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for WarLobo   Click Here to Email WarLobo     Edit/Delete Message
Oh sure Macro, and I suppose next we'll be hearing you say your a hardgainer.... And then asking questions concering the stacking of an oral only cycle :P

Them dosages do sound about right, cept I've never had to do the spirulina tabs thing. BTW, You do know it is algae right? And that I feed it to my fish every day. If you need a bulk deal just let me know.

Late

Lobo

p.s. One of my hobbies is reef/salt aquariums

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WorkinOnIt
Amateur Bodybuilder
(Total posts: 38)
posted February 04, 2000 03:13 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for WorkinOnIt   Click Here to Email WorkinOnIt     Edit/Delete Message
BUT.............sugar tastes good!!!!!lol

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WarLobo
Pro Bodybuilder
(Total posts: 117)
posted February 07, 2000 06:34 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for WarLobo   Click Here to Email WarLobo     Edit/Delete Message
Glazed Donut Bump

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TxCollegeguy
Amateur Bodybuilder
(Total posts: 28)
posted February 07, 2000 06:43 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for TxCollegeguy   Click Here to Email TxCollegeguy     Edit/Delete Message
Thats it for me.....I'm going to go Cold Turkey, I've been slowly taking sugar out of my diet. Thank god Soda burns my mouth now or I'd still be drinking it. Thanks for the post. It's reminded me all of the reasons why I stopped drinking soda, as well as give me new reasons

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Boric
Amateur Bodybuilder
(Total posts: 16)
posted February 08, 2000 09:19 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Boric     Edit/Delete Message
I don't know if I have a right to post messages on this board since Im not a bodybuilder, but maybe an oppinion from the "outsider" wouldn't harm.
I partialy disagree with Lobo. Speaking as a pro cyclist, I can say that simple sugars are one of the essential nutrients. Too much of it, of course, can result in raised blood sugar level and unwanted insulin bursts, which stops the normal function of metabolism. In critical glicogen depletion,like long endurance competitions, the simple sugars can save your ass. If your blood sugar level
drops below the critical point, the body start to excessively break down muscle protein in order to precess it into sugar and satisfy the need for energy.
(Thats why you lose to much muscle mass when dieting inpropperly) In that case, taking simple sugar is good and it's almost a must.
In all heavy endurance sports, the athletes use glucose intervenal infusion after
competitions in order to recover as soon as possible. I know that in bodybuilding there is never such need and
sugar overload can easely happen, but it doesnt mean sugar is bad. Not bad even toxic! Cmon. And with all that
vitamin & mineral supplements we are taking all the time, I'm sure there is more than enough minerals needed for white sugar proccesing.
Maybe Im wrong but I think you're exaggerating a little. Of course, getting 2000Kcal per day from white sugar isn't good, but
you cant say that sugar is almost toxic and shouldn't be consumed at all. What alternative can you give us? Artificial sweeteners? Cmon..

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WarLobo
Pro Bodybuilder
(Total posts: 117)
posted February 08, 2000 02:38 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for WarLobo   Click Here to Email WarLobo     Edit/Delete Message
Very good points Boric. And yes, I at least welcome other sports nuts other than the typical BB. But you got to remember you endurance types are NUTS and extremely WACO to do that shit Hell, ten minutes on a bike and my ass hurts WAY to much

Ok.. enough ribbing. You do indeed bring out some very valid points. Specific situations do require a supplementation of simple sugar. We as BBers will often use such a post workout drink to recover glyco stores. But keep in mind that a recovery drink is used at a time when the stomach is empty (for the most part) and the simple sugar is assimilated very quickly and often through the lining itself. In the overall scheme of things, this limited use makes up a very small portion in our day to day diet. And yes, hopefully we are all on a quality diet with proper vitamins/mineral supplementation so that we see a beneficial result when using simple sugars for recovery.

However, and I can't stress this strongly enough, our tendency to ingest the worst possible type of sugar (refined & processed - i.e. high fructose corn syrup) on consistent basis is REAL and happens all to frequently. (Read some of the other posts.) The 40 grams of sugar in that mountain dew is pure shit and does not do anything beneficial for the body. The one or two teaspoons of sugar in your coffee, that 15 grams in your cereal, or a snack of yogurt with 16-20 grams of sugar in it. Hell, before you know it, by the end of the day you have taken in 100 grams of this shit and DO NOT REALIZE IT! My overriding message it to increase the awareness of the amounts of sugar in everyday items and to help fellow BBers (and others in sport) take a mer second or two and READ THE LABELS! This area of our diet is soooo over looked. I am guilty and have lost many years of progress.... God, how many mountain dews and snicker bars did I eat after a Baseball game as a young kid. Or that big peanut buster parfait from Dairy Queen on a Friday night date. Or that BOX of Ho Ho's in college when getting the muchies - and you know how you get them I could go on and on. But you all get my point.

My next rebuttal is on the artificial sweeteners. I presume you eluded to them in a negative way. And I would agree with you. They are also detrimental. Look at the 100's if not 1000's of web pages about them. I do have an alternative, it's called Stevia. A totally naturally sweet plant extract from the Stevia Rebaudiana Bertoni herb.


Late

Lobo

p.s. You endurance guys are really something - got to hand it to you. I did a 21 mile "run" for charity once. Holly shit, could not MOVE the next day, was stiff and sore for a week - blisters for two weeks. I'll gladly rep squats till I puke before I run another fricking marathon thing.

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snowflake
Amateur Bodybuilder
(Total posts: 64)
posted February 08, 2000 03:04 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for snowflake   Click Here to Email snowflake     Edit/Delete Message UIN: 55804542
didnt it go a light up for u on this post

ohh shit iwe stopped using all supplements
and medecine
ohh what a world.

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Rock_Man
Amateur Bodybuilder
(Total posts: 21)
posted February 08, 2000 03:11 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Rock_Man   Click Here to Email Rock_Man     Edit/Delete Message
That is an incredible post and finding. After reading that I was able to reflect on some of the problems I am having and the symtoms the post gives. It's amazing to see how something that seems so harmless and goes undetected can be so incredibly responsible for such dramatic chain reactions within the bodies system.

------------------
Rock On!

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Boric
Amateur Bodybuilder
(Total posts: 16)
posted February 08, 2000 04:34 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Boric     Edit/Delete Message
Lobo, thanks for the good words,but I also salute to you guys to be so disciplined on your diets, medicals etc.. I could never watch the ammount of consumed proteins
fats and carbs consumed from my food. Once, my doctor prescribed me a special diet - shit I was suffering. I didnt get enough protein to recover- my legs were f...n ouf of power for a few months - and I was hungry all the time. Otherwise, BB and cycling is a complete different things - you guys just watch to get weight and we are forced to be f....n powerfull without musclemass..damn.. and when you get powerfull, you got overweighted and cant go anywhere...sucks

About the suggars.. I have to admin that your posting did affect me - I've just had a coffee with artificial sweetener Have
reduced my daily intake for 5g (Now I can afford a Snickers hi)

During the races, we always use energy replacement supplement like TwinLab PowerFuel, CarboFuel or just PowerGel or PowerBar and stuff like this.
The point using these things is that they're made out of different glucose polimers. When the supplement comes into your stomach, the first
one to leave it is a simplest possible sugar. When this sugar has been burned or stored (with insulin), the properly designed
supplement would just be broken down from 2nd stage glucose polimer into simple one and digested from stomach.. and so on and so on.
That kind of supplement can provide you stable blood sugar level for quite long time. But, if the sugar level raises over the
insuline release treshold, then you're fucked-when the excess sugar has been burned, your sugar level immidiately drops below the normal level and
insulin stays in your blood preventing the fats and proteines to be converted into energy. At this moment, you can stop your bike, step down and sit in a car, or
you are a candidate for a blackout.

Remember, intensive workouts are powered by sugar - not by proteins or fat. Those converts to slowly into sugars and low sugar levels immidiately cause muscle loss.

Today, I've made 4hrs of training. When I came home, I was hungry. Usualy I drink a carbo recovery drink, but now I ran out of it
and I'm just to lazy to go get a new one. Ok, and I said - well it's true what Lobo said - to much sugar isn't good - and I ate
a little rice with chicken and sit behind my PC. Interesting about that is the fact, that I was not feeling OK until I havent
ate something sweet. It was just a fruit yogurt, with not more that 10g of sugar. Well.. I dont know either its a bad habbit or
a real need for sugar caused by depletion shock made with trainig. Body somethimes need a little energy bust to start the metabolic procceses.
It's the same with glucose infusions - in whole infusion, there is only 4g of glucose! I always tought that the infusions are for
energy replacement, but they're not.

Well Lobo, now Im posting a question : How to determine when do you really need the sugar or your need is only a bad habbit?

B

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WarLobo
Pro Bodybuilder
(Total posts: 117)
posted February 08, 2000 06:19 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for WarLobo   Click Here to Email WarLobo     Edit/Delete Message
Good Golly Mrs. Molly! You are quickly getting out of my area of knowledge. That info on the use of different glucose polymers to sustain energy levels was bitchen! I've never even thought about it in that way. As BBers we are reinforced with the 45 min intense workout and hit the showers philosophy. Now you got me thinking, how about a small simple sugar pre workout stack to facilitate a 90 min workout to further exhaust the targeted muscle group?!?! Or to prep for a huge squat day?!?!

Man, I got to look in to this... HEY MACRO - YOU OUT THERE??? NAPY???

>>How to determine when do you really need the sugar or your need is only a bad habit?<<

Now this is really the kicker, sugar is addicting and you may/will experience withdrawal symptoms. My wife went cold turkey and got headaches, shakes for one day, was VERY irritable and lost her appetite for about three days. BTW, she is a NPC Judge and we both have extensive experience in this area and have seen a few folks just go nuts when we advise them to stop eating so much sugar. We usually recommend to taper it of over a month or so, BUT once your off of it (for a while) any processed sugars will give ya the SHITS big time and make you feel like you ate some bad fish.

As far as determining if your addicted, well keep track of your intake and see how it goes. It's just I've never really dealt with your type of nutritional requirements and don't feel very confident on my advice to you. On the other hand it is cool to learn about how you guys (and gals) eat, train, etc. Many of today's top athletes, trainers and coaches are quickly recognizing the potential benefits of "cross over" technology from other sports. Sometimes we get so wrapped up in doing our own thing we miss the opportunity to see what else is going on in the world of sports.


And might I suggest a sweet stack of Anavar/Winny/Primo and a small amout of test to get them leggs to thier max potential without to much mass... or I could drive up the road to AMGEN and get some "stuff" to thick'en up that blood fer yas I hear that shit is the BOMB!

Late

Lobo

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styles
Amateur Bodybuilder
(Total posts: 73)
posted February 08, 2000 06:43 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for styles     Edit/Delete Message
everything about refined sugar mentioned is correct. ofcoarse it is personal. it does depend on the kind, quantity, time it is ingested. i am insulin sensitive. when i eat too many carbs, i get slow, lethargic, tired, and fat. i obviously have to stay away from simple sugars more than some people. the science is there. if you dont have a problem, dont fix it, i obviously do not adapt to the levels of insulin my pancreas secretes due to the sugars.


it all depends on the person.

i definately dont expect a disagreement when i say this:

you think that before we learned how to refine sugar compared to now where (especially in america) where everything is refined carbohydrate saturated and almost everybody is grosly obese, many with diabetes, that this method of refining sugar and bocomming a carbohydrate adict for -many- people has nothing to do with it??? wrong, it has everything to do with it.


styles

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Boric
Amateur Bodybuilder
(Total posts: 16)
posted February 08, 2000 08:46 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Boric     Edit/Delete Message
Wow hold on man hold on! Anavar/Winny/Primo.. as I know this are all mass building, water retenting gears. I haven't used AS stuff yet except Clen, but thats not the real thing. You have to know, that I cannot afford putting on weight. Even 1Kg is way too much. Im 188cm and need to be 74Kg.
Now Im 77,78Kg and have to lower that a little. Im somewhere between 5-6% fat, so I cannot go much lower on fat. Well I know a guy who's 3,4%fat. He's 190cm and have only 67Kgs!!! Damn man you should see that! Walking deadman! But very very fast on the bike when the hills come.
See Pantani - he has 60Kgs together with his bike and he still powers 550W on tests (thats a lot even for a man with 80Kg). Imagine pushing 250Kg LegPush for 60 minutes.
The power determining test is simple. You hop on bike-ergometer and start pedalingat 50W load. Every 4 min, the power is increased for 50W. And so on and on until you drop dead. The power load achieved in this way is your max power. You are also connected to EKG and oxigen consumption meter and every
2 minutes they take a blood sample from your ear to measure the lactate level to get the aerobic and anaerobic thresholds.
So, after that, you take your maximum power and divide it with your body weight and you'll get how many watts you have per one Kg of weight (watt/Kg).
Real performance starts at 6,2W/Kg. So either you increase your power output or reduce weight. Power output is determined with 1-muscle power
2-cardio vascular capabilities 3-energy stores. Power output may be increased using AS, but they may not produce weight. Cardio vascular capabilities
can be artificialy improved by increasing red cell count, for that eritropoietin is used (EPO,Eprex, Epogen). And energy stores may be enlargened with carbo loading and long distance training.


Ok, you suggest Anavar/Primo/Winny.. I have posted already a message "increasing power without mass" and Matt suggested
Halotestin. Well, as far as I was further researching Halo, I found out that its very toxic to the liver - as most of the oral
AS are. I really dont have experiences with AS, so any info on how to increase power without adding weight would be very useful.
I also think that me as a cyclist, dont need such doses like you do. Im at least half lighter than you.. Does these things
work in small doses or do not work at all?

Otherwise, do you guys also injecting any detoxifiers or is it not neccesary in BB? I mean things like reduced glutatione (Tationil) or
Thiola for liver protection? What about B12 shots? And folic acid and iron? We are mostly on that things all the time.
What about injectable creatine? Do you use it?

About the glugose polimers for energy at the gym - I think you dont have to complicate your life with it. You dont need
so much calories for 1h of gym training. Your on-board glicogen stores are big enough to provide energy for at least 20min of
intense aerobic exercise. Its different for me - I have to go 6hrs on the intensity which is over the aerobic thershold all the time and from time to time even over anaerobic
treshold and that all requires carbo as main fuel. There is no way to go more than 2h30 without carbo supplementation.

Well, I think there is a lot of common interests between these two sports. And one is for sure- cycling and BB are both
top of the "juicing" sports so we can learn a lot from each other.

Well I hope I didn't wrote to much of that message and didnt slip away from main theme...anyway awaiting response..

B

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