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 Anabolic Discussion Board
 Considering anabolic androgenic steroid use?
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| Author | Topic: Considering anabolic androgenic steroid use? | ||
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Olympian 
Posts: 1988 |
Anabolic Steroid Info Paul McNamara / [email protected] As you probably realise, steroids have many benefits, however, also carry many side-affects (the most severe are those with a high androgenic component, and/or are 17-alpha alkylated related). To give you a quick overview, steroids are often termed as "anabolics' as they increase the rate at which the protein is metabolised/synthesised and absorbed into the cell - this is due to the positive nitrogen balance that they have on the body. However, interestingly, a steroid can not have a high anabolic component without having a high 'androgenic' component. This is basically the side effect component of the androgen. It is possible to have a steroid that is highly androgenic, whilst still having a small anabolic component, but the reverse is not possible (only a rare few are possible of this ie Equipoise). Not one single steroid is the same as the other either. Some give massive strength gains and muscle mass, some give a solid high qualitative strength gain, while others are used for competition purposes. (It depends on what you are after). It is worth noting that the MASS gain ones cause considerable water retention, which is somewhat lost after discontinuation, along with strength and muscle gains (they are also the ones with the largest androgenic/anabolic effect). That is unless you know how to taper off properly. I will show you how, so that any losses will be minimised. It is worth noting that androgens should NOT be administered to adolescents as it will prematurely close their growth plates, but if you are over the age of 20/21yrs old, there is no risk of this. It is important to use androgens in short cycles, ie 5-7 weeks, depending on the type of steroid. This is due to the steroid receptors becoming saturated after this time, and any additional gains made will be marginal. It is important never to completely saturated the steroid receptors as it will take a long time for their normal values to return. Mass gaining steroids, saturate the receptors the fastes, thus short cycles are prefered, whilst slow qualitative muscle accumulating steroids can be used for longer periods, ie 8 weeks. Never stay on any compound for longer than two months, as it will take an extremely long time for your normal liver, and testosterone values to resume to normal. In short cycles, all values return to normal after discontinuation, and depending on the amount of your own body's suppressed hormone levels, may need an exogenous testosterone stimulnt such as HCG or Clomid, or Proviron. The first two are quite powerful and are only needed whenhigh dosages, and/or strong androgens have been administered. Proviron stimulates the testosterone level slightly, but it's main function is as an anti-estogen, thus inhibiting the buildup of estrogen around the receptor cites, thus eliminating the possibility of gynecomastia ('bitch tits') and undesirable fat deposits. Another reason why athletes take testosterone stimulants is to balance the accompaying catabolic phase that follows the steroid treatment, thus minimising losses ect. This process is much more complex however, but for simplicity, I won't go into detail. I can however, if you wish me to in my next contribution Many athletes take Clenbuterol, which is an anticatabolic agent, and allows the athlete to acheive high quality gains over prolonged periods, as it is not a hormone or steroid, thus does NOT influence the endogenous testosterone production.    | ||
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Amateur Bodybuilder 
Posts: 151 |
Good post Iron-Game. It reconfirmed research done that any youngsters below 20/21 should not take anabolic/androgenic 'roids as the latter affects the pubescent stage. I thought primo, winny, deca, parabolan, anavar and eq have higher anabolic and lower androgenic properties..only eq is mentioned. I always believe in quality gains, not gains coupled with lotsa IM fats. Sorry madmitch, but I think your theory on increasing estrogen levels to increase anabolic effects of aromatising 'riods maybe a bit too much for me to swallow. I'll still take estrogen inhibitors.  | ||
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Amateur Bodybuilder
Posts: 266 |
nice post-what length of time are we talking about in terms of receptor clearance? also, if you try to cycle again too soon - (before total clearance has occurred)you would probably notice it in terms of reduced gains on that cycle ,correct or not? ------------------ | ||
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Pro Bodybuilder 
Posts: 391 |
thats a good straight foward post | ||
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Pro Bodybuilder
Posts: 501 |
Everything that that cat said about receptors is total bullshit. I dont' know what magazine he read that in or "what friend told me that's what happened...," but he doesn't know much about the effects of AR-mediated growth. Saturation of the receptors is a goal here. That's why you are taking exogenous injections -to try and saturate your receptors. The faster your receptors are saturated, the sooner you'll start to see gains. The loss of effectiveness of androgens has NOTHING to do with receptors. In fact, overtime your receptors will upregulate and respond better and better to the androgen. The problem of loosing effectiveness comes from the liver's ability to metabolise. It's much like the way your body metabolises alcholol better after you've been drinking for a while. Lay off for a while and you will get drunk faster. Same thing with AS. 5 weeks is too short for any cycle unless you are using things such as fina, test prop. or suspension, clen, insulin, etc... And I would suggest clomid after every androgen cycle. It's cheap as hell and it will kick in your natural test. -Stew | ||
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Cool Novice 
Posts: 33 |
as posted by the Iron Game: Many athletes take Clenbuterol, which is an anticatabolic agent, and allows the athlete to acheive high quality gains over prolonged periods, as it is not a hormone or steroid, thus does NOT influence the endogenous testosterone production. Question if it allows the athlete to acheive high quality gains over a prolonged period, what would be the best way to take clen? I ve heard of people doing this 2 days on 2 days off, ive also heard of an 8- 10 week cycle what do you think would be the best for quality gains ? | ||
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Cool Novice
Posts: 33 |
bump | ||
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Pro Bodybuilder
Posts: 501 |
quote:
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Elite Bodybuilder 
Posts: 624 |
Well Stew, we finally agree on something, lol. Receptors increase in both sensativity and populations with increased presence of androgens. The body just get's better at dealing with the extra amounts. The body wants to be in a state of rest at all times, a state of "Normalcy" almost. And for that to be, something has to give when it has a ton of hormones in it that it can't stop the production of, so in order to stop from doing things it dosen't want to (Building, supporting muscle growth....) it will simply bind up or break down more of the target hormones. However, I do not think 5 weeks is too short for ANY cycle, because I often use only 2 week cycles with much effectiveness. From the standpiont of receptor saturation, you are correct, drugs that have esters attached, especially longer esters, should be cycled longer, ONLY because it takes them longer to become avaliable to the receptors. However, I will often use a few of the drugs you mentioned (suspension, fina winstrol) along with Anadrol, DBol, and even Enanthate in a 2 week cycle and it yeilds very nice results. The trick however, since you can't manipulate the time your on to saturate receptors is too do it via dosages. This is why you will see my putting huge amount of A50 AND Winstrol in myself, along with a ton of Fina. While it wouldn't be "SAFE" over an extended period of time it is safe for a limited period of time. | ||
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Olympian
Posts: 1988 |
Please do not get me wrong here, I was reading through some sites today and thought this was a post that could help some of the members here. I would not suggest using clen to increase lean tissue directly. It can be used as an anti-catabolic after a cycle which has been tried and tested method to help retain gains made while on. The only lean tissue you will gain while using it will be indirectly caused by more intense workouts which it can cause.
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Cool Novice
Posts: 40 |
Dude that is total bullshit I did my first cycle at 17. Estrogen causes your growth plate to seal not steroids so take some Arimidix guys to stop that estrogen conversion and you will be fine. Peace Out | ||
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Amateur Bodybuilder
Posts: 225 |
Stew -> I 'm on 500 mg of sust a week. I was planning to inject for 8 weeks... Do you think it's better to "extend" it to 10 weeks ? Thanks, DS | ||
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Olympian
Posts: 1988 |
Stew a simple question for you. Are you trying to tell me that: "It is important to use androgens in short cycles, ie 5-7 weeks, depending on the type of steroid. This is due to the steroid receptors becoming saturated after this time, and any additional gains made will be marginal" This is not the case? Most people know by now the most gains are made in the earlier to middle stages of a cycle. After the 7th week gains tend to slow down a lot more dramatically. My cycles will from now on not be over 8 wks followed by 4 wks off followed by another 8 week cycle. During the 4 weeks off clomid, clen and eca. | ||
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Pro Bodybuilder
Posts: 443 |
Iron Game: I couldn't agree more. I used to think that 10-12 week cycles were the way to go. But after evaluating my last few cycles I've come to realize that my body gets 75% off of the first 4 weeks. So that has made me believe that super saturating is the way to go. | ||
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Amateur Bodybuilder
Posts: 134 |
I don't know who paul mcnamara is but if I did I would tell him he's full of shit and needs to do some research ------------------ | ||
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Amateur Bodybuilder
Posts: 129 |
Aren't you supposed to be dead, gone from the board? Or was that just an attempt to get attention? It's funny, everyone that says that they're through with the board returns within a week or two... ------------------ | ||
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Olympian
Posts: 1988 |
Crash https://www.elitefitness.com/ubb/Forum1/HTML/052267.html Unlike you I have started a new post to try and keep the ones meant for discussion clean. Baaaaaa [This message has been edited by The_Iron_Game (edited February 25, 2001).] |
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posted February 24, 2001 06:56 AM