From USA Today Article: The study of 42 men found increases in testosterone levels when andro was taken for seven days in a single daily 300-milligram dose - an amount that is probably far smaller than what athletes and bodybuilders use.There are currently at least seven "Andro" products on the market.
Testosterone & Nor-Testosterone precursors / prohormones include: Androstenedione, 4-Androstendiol and 5-Androstendiol, 4-Androstenedione, 5-Androstenedione + 2 NorAndros: 19 - NorAndrostenedione and 19 - NorAndrostenediol.
These variations of "Andro" are not created equal.
The "diols" are up to 300% more effective than the "diones" in the conversion to / production of testosterone.
The "diols" are slightly more expensive. This extra expense results in most low cost products using the less expensive variations. Read labels carefully!!
The "4-Andros" do not convert directly to estrogen while the "5-Andros" do.
The "Andros" convert to testosterone while the "19-Nors" convert to Nor Testosterone.
The Nor-Andros convert to nortestosterone not testosterone, but again the NorAndro-diol is more effective than the NorAndro-dione.
Nortestosterone / nandrolone is the active chemical metabolite in the most effective, widely used steroid ever invented, Deca Durabolin.
This is what the banned shot-putter at the 2000 Olympics was "kicked out" for!
The 4-Andro variations are more anabolic and less androgenic than the 5-Andro variations.
The Andro-dione can convert directly to estrogen, the Andro-diol cannot convert directly to estrogen.
The Andro will metabolize into testosterone while in the liver, and another small amount will get through as unchanged Andro. Some of the Andro will then later metabolize to testosterone in "extrahepatic" (outside of the liver) tissues.
Women could get masculine physical characteristics and men can suffer other negative side effects covered below.
Andro is converted not only to testosterone but also to a hormone called dihydrotestosterone, or DHT. DHT is responsible in large part for many of the negative side effects including, enlargement of the prostate, male pattern baldness, alterations in blood cholesterol (lowered HDL & elevated LDL), and acne. If you are concerned with any of these side effects I would avoid using andro especially in high doses.
That structural change in the 19- Nor-Andros results in much more favorable binding affinities for skeletal muscle rather than for prostate and other sexual tissues. The Nor-Andros appear to have less of the downsides of increases in DHT and lessened aromatization into estrogens.
Some "experts" state that unless you are predisposed to the estrogenic side effects, such as male pattern baldness or "bitch tits", these side effects are not going to effect you!???
There are prescription medications and non prescription nutritional supplements that reduce the conversion of testosterone to estrogen.
The best choices are 4-Androstenediol and 19-NorAndrostenediol. However these are the most expensive variations.
Read labels carefully if the particular Andro classification is not present on the label it would be safe to assume that a less expensive / less effective variation is being used.
Hormonal Pathways
Andro is hormonally 2 steps closer to testosterone than is DHEA. DHEA is 3 enzymatic steps away from testosterone while Andro is 1 step away (see chart). DHEA can be converted to a variety of hormones, Andro can only be converted to testosterone or estrogen.
Excess testosterone can / will be converted to estrogen. This is personal genetic code specific and age related.
The Andro-dione can convert directly to estrogen the Andro-diol cannot convert directly to estrogen.
Long term, heavy use of the Andro products can / will decrease natural testosterone production. Cycling, several weeks on / several weeks off or rotating the prohormones from Andro to Nor-Andro, is the way to over come this potential side effect.
Since different enzymes are used for the Andro-diol and Andro-dione products, some vendors recommend combing "diol" with "dione", however, since the "diol" is 3 times more effective, it make more sense to take the more effective, and less estrogenic but more expensive, "diol".
NorAndro results in increased nortestosterone & nandrolone not increased testosterone, but follows the same basic hormonal pathway.
The nortestoserone / nandrolone is anabolic and less androgenic. It has many of the same muscle building effects plus has a lowered conversion to estrogen rate.
This Prohormone is anabolic in humans, but in men it often has the unfortunate effect of producing partial or complete impotence, which is reversed on cessation of use.
The libido enhancing qualities of 4-Andro-diol is extremely noticeable
I personally rotate the 4-Androdiol with 19 Nor-Androdiol and do notice a difference in libido. I notice an increase in libido with 4-Andro-diol but not necessarily a decrease with 19 Nor Andro-diol.
The prescription steroid Nandrolene, that the Nor-Andros convert to, is used as a male anti-fertility medication in Australia! So if you want the real juice go to Australia for male birth control meds.:-)
The level of increase in nortestosterone achieved with the recommended dosages of Nor-Andro-diol is considerably less than the increase achieved by injecting "juice".
That structural change in the 19- Nor-Andros results in much more favorable binding affinities for skeletal muscle rather than for prostate and other sexual tissues. The Nor-Andros appear to have less of the downsides of increases in DHT and lessened aromatization into estrogens.
A recent Harvard study stated that the prohormone Androstene was not effective in raising testosterone levels! Please note that the study lasted one week & since there was no mention of exercise in the review it is assumed that these were sedentary individuals. There was also no increase in estrogen reported.
Androstenedione is a naturally occurring steroid hormone found in meat and some plant extracts.
Andro is not a drug. Since "Andro" is a naturally occurring hormone found in all animals and some plants the assorted variations & isomers are classified as supplements & not a drugs.
However there is discussion about the FDA stepping in with more stupid regulations & laws & rules.
We may not imagine how our lives could be more frustrating and complex - but Congress can. ~ Cullen Hightower
"Andro" itself is normally present in the blood in both men and women
Cholesterol
\/ \/ \/ \/ \/
<<<<<<<<<< Pregnenolone >>>>>>>>
\/ \/ \/ \/ \/
<<<<<<<<< DHEA >>>>>>>>>>
\/ \/ \/ \/ \/
<<<<< Enzymes, Glucocorticoids, Mineral Corticoids >>>>>
\/ \/ \/ \/ \/
Androstenedione
Testosterone
4 & 5-Androstenediol
Testosterone
4 & 5-Androstenedione
Testosterone
19-Norandrostenedione
NorTestosterone
19-Norandrostenediol
Nortestosterone
Estrogen
Estrogen
Estrogen
estrogen(way less than andro)
estrogen ( way less than andro)
History
Andro was first synthesized in 1935.
In 1936 Dr. Charles Kochakian's research demonstrated androgenic and anabolic effects.
After the fall of the Berlin Wall and the release/publication of the East German Olympic team training records brought Andro to the forefront of sports training. The East German's developed a nasal spray that is given credit for much of the East German domination of the Olympics to the '60s, '70s and 80's. Andro was one of the East German's most coveted training/nutritional secrets.
The German research indicated a 100% to 400% ( dose dependant ) increase in testosterone for up to 3 hours. With the peak at about 90 minutes post oral consumption.
The International Olympic Committee has a test specifically for testosterone. However since testosterone is a naturally occurring hormone that is present in all normally functioning humans, there are broad variations in their standards. The standards for various sporting groups have widely varying acceptable testosterone levels.
Basics
( This is a simplistic review, for really detailed study there are research books & patent information.)
All of members of the Andro family are theoretically converted to testosterone / nortestosterone by natural enzymes in the body. There are five basic types or variations of Andro: Androstenedione, 4-Androstendiol and 5-Androstendiol, 4-Androstenedione, 5-Androstenedione & 2 NorAndros: 19 - NorAndrostenedione and 19 - NorAndrostenediol. There are additional variations / isomers but these are the basic forms. There are alpha and beta isomers. There are differences in the physiological effects of the major variations.
There are individuals and companies that recommend specific alpha or beta isomers however I feel that this is more of establishing a market niche than critical physiology.
The NorAndros lack a carbon containing molecule ( C-19 methyl group, one carbon with three hydrogen atoms attached to it ) at the 19th position on the carbon chain. The enzymes that convert the Andro to testosterone will not add the carbon containing molecule to the 19th position ( they do add a hydrogen atom ) and without that single methyl group molecule it will not / cannot become testosterone.
The main difference between the Andro's and the NorAndro's is the conversion to testosterone or nor testosterone / nandralone.
Andro converts to testosterone which is the most important hormone in the male body for energy, libido, muscle size and strength. However there are the androgenic (related to the masculine imparting effects) side effects which include hair loss, enlarged prostate, testicular shrinkage and the conversion of testosterone to estrogen. This last effect is the greatest concern to me personally.
Increased levels of estrogen levels increase body fat, lead to possible heart disease, and impart the possibility of female physical characteristics such as enlarged breasts or gynocomastia. Yes, what is known in the gyms as "bitch tits" is a result of high levels of estrogen, a genetic predisposition to this is probably necessary and environmental factors such as pollutants & diet are also factors. And excess levels of testosterone will convert to estrogen. The rate of conversion of testosterone to estrogen increases as we age.
Nortestosterone provides many / most of the anabolic (muscle building) effects of testosterone with lessened negative androgenic side effects. Since the NorAndros do not convert to testosterone many of the negative side effects of Andro are reduced.
There is a possibility that the NorAndros will reduce libido!
The NorAndro variations have many of the same anabolic effects with lessened the androgenic effects. The nor Andros convert to nor-testosterone which has the anabolic effects without some of the androgenic effects.
The NorAndros convert to nortestosterone and nandrolone, which is a marker for the anabolic steroid Deca Durabolin. This means that it will definitely show up in drug tests by sports associations.
There are supplements that claim to reduce the conversion of testosterone to estrogen. However this is an area of much discussion and I have seen no objective research on this topic.
Chrysin is one nutrient that is claimed to stop the conversion. There are vendors that claim the chrystin on the market now is of poor quality.
There are prescription medications that do block the testosterone > estrogen conversion.
Drug Testing
Employment drug tests are looking for recreational drugs such as pot or coke. Unless an employer is looking for high levels of testosterone or nandrolone.
Sports federation tests do look for high levels of testosterone & nandrolone.
The U.S. shot putter that was banned at the 2000 Olympics had a 1000 time the normal levels of nandrolone in his system.
Other differences & more details
4 androstendiol and 5 androstendiol
Of the 5 andro variations, 4-andro-diol seems to be the way to go for increasing testosterone.
4-androstenediol is reported to be three times (300%) more effective.
The 5-androstenediol product looks like a bad bet for men. It is not only an androgen but is also an estrogen, which suggests that this product may be more likely to cause gynecomastia (abnormal growth of breast tissue in men, aka bitch tits). It can convert directly to estrogen. 4-Andro-diol must convert to testosterone & then possibly to estrogen.
I personally like the effect of 4 Andro-diol, both the anabolic muscle building effect and the libido enhancement. I do seem to be a little more aggressive on andro.
"O Lord, help me to be pure, but not yet." - St. Augustine (354-430 A.D.).
NorAndro
19-NorAndrostendiol is the choice over 19-NorAndrostendione.
NorAndro converts to nortestosterone / nandrolone not testosterone.
NorAndro is said to have a beneficial effect on joints.
The anabolic effects of nandrolone are similar to testosterone. The nandrolone remains attached to the receptor much longer than testosterone and thus will have a longer lasting effect. I have read that they will stay on the receptor site for up to 4 days!
NorAndro-diol is the popular choice among females as well as older athletes, due to its minimal androgenic activity. However, Norandro-diol still maintains strong anabolic properties
Nor-Andro can reduce libido.
I personally get excellent anabolic results from Norandro-diol. But I do seem to notice a reduction in libido with the Norandro-diol.
Combining Products
Combining 19-Nor-diol with 4-Andro-diol may be the way to go.
If not combining alternating from one cycle to another.
Administration or route of distribution
The oral route is fine because DHEA, Andro & NorAndro are resistant to stomach acids.
One hour pre workout & no dose after 6 PM. This will allow peak serum levels in the gym + allow the body's natural nocturnal production from the testes to take effect.
Best / optimal dosage is unclear but the best bet may be 300 mg at a time, no more than three times per day, with the last dose preferably no later than 4 or at the most 6 PM.
A particularly good time to take andro-diol is 1-2 hours before a workout, since this will cause testosterone levels to peak during the workout, which does make a noticeable difference in how one feels in the gym and how well one can perform. I think that an ideal pattern of usage would be to use for only two- four weeks at a time, then taking two to four weeks off before using the products again
500 mg 4-androdiol 1 hour prior to my workout results in an exceptional workout, praise the gods of pump, lactic acid & sweat!
There is research into transdermal & sublingual administration.
Open the capsule & put the contents under your tongue for 5 minutes. Then swallow the residue.
Sublingual delivery has just been introduced. This is an effective way of getting the same effect from a much smaller amount of andro. So when comparing price, 25 mg of sublingual Andro-diol is probably comparable to perhaps 250 mg or so of Andro-diol in a capsule
Transdermal products are becoming available, but are inconvenient and furthermore have the disadvantage of delivering the product slowly and steadily over relatively long periods of time. This means that one cannot have high levels specifically during one�s workout, or just during the day but not at night: one is going to have the same levels all the time.
Testosterone
Testosterone is produced by the testes ( gonads). It is at the end of a long / complex chemical / hormonal path that has many necessary ingredients for the production to be successful. Including Vitamin C, B-6, cholesterol, Pregnenolone, DHEA, Androstendione and / or androstendiol.
The conversion in the liver of Andro to testosterone requires a zinc dependant enzyme.
US patent # 5578588 address testosterone production associated with Andro.
Conclusion
The Prohormones are controversial.
They are short lived, 3 hours of increased hormone level.
There may be negative side effects & cycling is definitely recommended.
Their effect is debatable, see the Harvard study.
-Stew
[This message has been edited by Stew Meat (edited February 24, 2001).]
Elite Fitness Bodybuilding, Anabolics, Diet, Life Extension, Wellness, Supplements, and Training Boards
posted February 24, 2001 02:30 AM
