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 Anabolic Discussion Board
 Why do I not gain like I should?
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| Author | Topic: Why do I not gain like I should? | ||
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Elite Bodybuilder 
Posts: 1123 |
I've been on this cycle: 750mg sust 450mr eq I'm at week 6 and have only gainned about 10lbs. This is my second cycle. I didnt gain but 7lbs on my first. Will I ever get good results with juice. Will orals work better for me?     | ||
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Amateur Bodybuilder 
Posts: 175 |
What does your diet look like? | ||
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Pro Bodybuilder 
Posts: 382 |
Eat more, if your not gaining weight your not consuming enough calories. | ||
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Elite Bodybuilder
Posts: 1123 |
I eat at least 5 meals a day, and I really cant eat more (feel too sick)... Should I get a appetite stimulant | ||
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Amateur Bodybuilder
Posts: 196 |
5 times a day is not enough... make sure you get some quality in at those meals... MEAT... RICE... YAMS!!! | ||
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Olympian 
Posts: 1836 |
Natural Wonder: I have the same problem. Some days I feel like I can't eat anymore, but I really haven't eaten alot. maybe i need an appetite stimulant too. | ||
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Pro Bodybuilder
Posts: 382 |
I eat 6 times a day, and when I'm bulking I have to eat alot of exta calories or I wont gain. Hamburgers, milkshakes, fried chicken, ect... and I don't get fat. I dont believe in putting on fat just to make your weight go up, but if your on AS most extra calories will be muscle. | ||
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Elite Bodybuilder
Posts: 1123 |
ok, I'll try | ||
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Pro Bodybuilder
Posts: 522 |
I have the same problem bro, even with a proper diet, I have a shitty genetics and don't respond to gear overly well, I think some of us are just like that | ||
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Moderator 
Posts: 1770 |
Maybe is genetic,but try with the proper diet(eat more),take carbs drinks,and protein with calories. ------------------ | ||
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Cool Novice 
Posts: 20 |
If you can't get the nutrition you need with food, turn to supplements. That's exactly what they are for. Stay away from "weight gains" though they usually have trash carbs and proteins in them. Go for something like Isopure, it's very thin so you won't feel full and it has 50 grams of awesome protein in it. You can even make the shake with an Ultra Fuel instead of milk or water and you'll end up with a killer meal. | ||
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Elite Bodybuilder
Posts: 878 |
Natural Wonder, you have mail.. ------------------ | ||
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Elite Bodybuilder
Posts: 1177 |
Diet Genetics Sleep Other supplements Stress levels Proper training program Overtraining? All must be optimized and/or avoided to make the gains we all desire. Oh yea Desire!!!!! | ||
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Amateur Bodybuilder
Posts: 182 |
I have a crazy theory running around in my head about why steroids are more effective in some people than others, but I don't want to post it until I have gathered enough info/evidence to back it up. Ok a little clue - estrogen. | ||
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Olympian
Posts: 1966 |
Madmitch this is not a theory this is real world. Steroids do produce better results on on some people than others, just as the sides caused by steroids are worse on some than others. Natural Wonder if I were you I would add some injectable B5 with your other injections, if not I would get an appetite stimulant. You should be eating at least bare minimum 6 times, although 7 or 8 would be more beneficial. Although I must say B5 didnt do too much for me. If you must then force feed yourself. | ||
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Amateur Bodybuilder
Posts: 195 |
Yea I usually eat 7-8 times a day, normally small meals around 500 to 600 cals . It's easier to get all the calories in this way. Hey Irongame , you mean B12 injectable right? | ||
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Olympian
Posts: 1966 |
That is exactly what I mean. I have so much acne right now I was thinking of B5 which also didnt do anything for me  | ||
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Amateur Bodybuilder
Posts: 182 |
Ok Iron_Game you forced me to lay it out. There is a direct link between the increase in estrogen as a result of aromatisation of Testosterone and the production of IGF-1 the most powerful of all anabolic hormones. Why do the non-aromatizing steroids cause less growth than the more powerful aromatizing steroids like Test, Anadrol, Dianabol etc? It is due to estrogens effect on increasing IGF-1 levels. It has been scientifically proven that non aromatizing steroids have almost no effect on IGF-1 levels. Put it this way, someone with very low natural levels of aromatizing enzyme who injects extra Testosterone will not get the same boost in IGF-1 as someone who has a higher level of aromatizing enzyme. i.e. their body is not able to convert a significant amount of Test into estrogen to get maximum increases in IGF-1. Other methods by which the male body can lower the amount of aromatization of extra Test to estrogen is through the increased coversion of Test to DHT. DHT is a natural anti-aromatase. In other words if you have high DHT levels you will have naturally low levels of estrogen. Now I'm going to stick my neck on the line here. I'll bet the guy's here who are complaining of not much growth from their cycles also have no problem with Gyno or water retention. Why? because their body is converting very little of the extra Test to estrogen. Now I am not saying that these guy's need to go and start injecting estrogen. No way that would be MAD, but there are other ways to increase growth from their cycles. Try to lower DHT production by using Proscar or Sawpalmetto (which by the way has been proven to increase appetite). Use Deca which competes with Test for the enzyme responsible for converting Testosterone to DHT. For these guy's continuing to increase the amount of Testosterone they inject will just be counter productive. | ||
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Olympian
Posts: 1966 |
Forced you to lay it out? I was agreeing with you bro | ||
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Amateur Bodybuilder
Posts: 195 |
Sorry to hear about the acne Iron game, I found B5 to be quite effective for me at a dose of around 16 grams a day (2 grams with each meal),I took this amount for a couple of months, and it cleared my acne pretty good. Could be worth a try. | ||
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Pro Bodybuilder
Posts: 579 |
if calories are turned into muscles on a cycle would cardio be the wrong thing to do while on the juice? | ||
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Amateur Bodybuilder
Posts: 182 |
Iron_Game I guess I was just too impatient I had to tell someone. Below is one of the sites that got me thinking. Although I'm still trying to find more studies on the combination of Testosterone and estrogen in growth. I believe there are some studies on cattle which prove a combination of androgens and estrogen is more effective at growth promotion than by androgens alone. | ||
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Amateur Bodybuilder
Posts: 59 |
The ONLY way that your diet could be a limiting factor is if you are still under 22 and your metabolism is still outrageous. But if you are putting on fat you are eating enough. Fat storage means that your body has more nutrients than it can use, therefore it will be stored. The reason you are not growing is receptor affinity. It is likely that you are just insensitive to AS. High dosages are your only answer. Sad but true. | ||
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Amateur Bodybuilder
Posts: 149 |
madmitch, just a question, are u suggesting that on a test cycle, one should not use estrogen inhibitors since u say increase in estrogen levels simultaneously increase IGF-1 levels? I thought IGF-1 increase in sync with a higher level of total testosterone levels, not estrogen? | ||
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Amateur Bodybuilder
Posts: 182 |
No Yiyangzhi I'm not suggesting that EVERYONE should not use anti-estrogens/anti-aromatase compunds during a Testosterone based cycle. I believe there is an ideal ratio of Test to estrogen that creates the best gains in muscle mass and strength. Increasing one without the other will not create optimal muscle gain. What I am saying is that SOME people will experience very little aromatization even on high doses of Test. I personally have gone as high as 1000 mg of Test per week with no Nolvedex, no Proviron, no gyno, no water retention or no acne. Try and explain that? Also my gains in strength and muscle mass where less than impressive for that level of Testosterone intake. I have observed some guy's in the gym make incredible gains in strength and muscle mass in a very short time, but it was accompanied by a lot of water retention and acne, no doubt due to heavy aromatisation. These guys should definately use anti-estrogen/anti-aromatase compounds. It is my belief that the guy's who get heavy aromatising effects from low doses of Testosterone are the guy's who will make the best gains from using steroids. The only way I can prove this is by using a steroid that I read about, which contains both Testosterone and estrogen. Of course this would be very risky and the chance of incuring side effects would be very high. I do not suggest that anyone should try it, however the thought has crossed my mind. | ||
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Elite Bodybuilder
Posts: 607 |
This is all good advice! It might be your genetics bro  Well perhaps you should just keep eating all you can, pleanty of sleep, and vitamins!Mass Monster | ||
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Olympian
Posts: 1966 |
After something said by Mr FINNaplex I looked into this above theory. As he so rightly pointed out a certain amount of estrogen is needed. It is not such a bad hormone after all, just one that needs monitoring. Insufficient estrogen levels will hinder gains and athletic performance as will too much will be counterproductive and cause some damned ugly sides. You should not strive to kill estrogen levels just limit them. However I do not feel anyone can accurately or rightly say genetics is the reason why our friend natural wonder is not growing. There are too many key variables that need to be taken into account. On 5 meals a day though that is probably one of the major contributing factors. | ||
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Guru     
Posts: 5304 |
EAT! ------------------ For a good time click here: Search and Profiles (300Kleens Board) | ||
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Cool Novice
Posts: 21 |
Try remeron, it's a prescription anti depressant that will make you eat like marijuana. No joke, You will never get full, so eat clean though. | ||
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Pro Bodybuilder
Posts: 544 |
natural wonder I am with you on having shitty genititcs on gear. I have a buddy who can gain 30lb lbm and he has already done like 20 cycles. My last cycle 1000mg test week for 8 weeks gained like 12lbm. but I was using anti estrogens pretty heavy which gives credit to a couple of the articals above. The cycle befor that gained 20lb on less juice with no anti estrogens but my calories and protine was much higher. Diet has alot to do with it. On my next cycle will take in 400mg protine instead of like 160 and I know I will gain weight. | ||
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Novice 
Posts: 2 |
don't worry natural wonder all these "studies" look good on paper but then theres the real world---lets assume you are eating, training, and sleeping properly-the problem may lie with the specific drugs you have chosen. i have taken eq and sust and was so disappointed in the way i responded to them i ended up giving them away. however i can gain 20+lbs off of a mild cycle of primo or dbol by themselves. next time try stacking something else.dont worry- if you perservere the gains will come as they did for me. i'm 5'6" and weigh 207lbs at 12%bf and just started my first cycle in 2 1/2 years. and i know this ones worn out but here goes anyway-IF IT WERE EASY EVERYONE WOULD DO IT! ------------------ | ||
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Elite Bodybuilder
Posts: 1123 |
Mike, I didnt get any mail... | ||
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Elite Bodybuilder
Posts: 724 |
Madmitch, I totally agree with ya. A certain amount of estrogen and testosterone is needed in the body for optimal growth. |
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posted February 21, 2001 10:37 PM
DO MY BALLS LOOK SMALL TO YOU!?