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 1000mg Deca vs 1000mg test: "2Thick and other experts".
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| Author | Topic: 1000mg Deca vs 1000mg test: "2Thick and other experts". | ||
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Pro Bodybuilder 
Posts: 480 |
Ok, this is going to seem like a really strange thread. But this question has been starting to come up in my gym and on the track. In the past, 600mg of deca was probably the highest amount of Deca one could possibly take without severly risking progesterone induced gyno. Since the legalisation(OTC) of mifepristone (Ru-486)here(U.K.), people are starting to increase their dosages dramatically. I'm currently taking 600mg/week with no sides whatsoever. And since this is my first inj. cycle I'm making phenomenal gains. But my question is directed to when I start slowing down in terms of LBM gain and strength gain. I refuse to take test, because most of my teammates broke out quite badly while on it. Not to mention how much it hurts to inject. A couple of my friends are taking 1000mg/week of Deca(this is their 14th cycle, they started stagnating at 600mg/week in terms of LBM increase and strength)> Now, with the addition of RU-486, they seem to be breaking their prior plateaus. My question is: How high can one possibly go in terms of Deca dosage? I'm sure that back in the day, 1000mg of test might have sounded insane to some people. But since the advent of RU-486, questions have begun to get raised regarding Deca's dosaging level. Godspeed     | ||
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Pro Bodybuilder
Posts: 591 |
Interesting question,brother! Does RU do anything about Deca dick? | ||
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Pro Bodybuilder
Posts: 480 |
Deca Dick seems to be unexplainable. Even with the addition of RU-486, some people get Deca Dick and some don't. I've tried to theorize why this is so, but I've yet to find a good explanation. Godspeed | ||
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Novice 
Posts: 6 |
What kind of dosage of RU-486 are you using? Mg of RU-486 to mg of Deca? Personally, I've done 2 grams of test a week for months on end with very little in the way of sides but then again that's just how I respond to gear. I don't think there is anything inherently toxic about Deca that would make high dosages of it particularly dangerous. Least no more so then lots of other drugs. In my opinion though with anything over a gram a week of any particular drug you quickly reach a point of diminishing returns. I got maybe 5% better results off 2 grams of test then I did off 1 gram. Now I just use one gram as a base and rotate other things on top of it. I'd say if you don't like test use Deca with RU-486 as your base instead. Go up to a gram, when that stops working rotate other stuff on top. | ||
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Pro Bodybuilder
Posts: 571 |
Well, if your asking how high you could go, you could inject 20cc's a day, but the question should be, how high is it safe to go? That's something that's going to be different between everyone, however, let me ask you this....how much will a gram of test cost compared to a gram of Deca? Better yet, why would you want to use all that deca, when there are many other drugs widely avaliable such as Fina or winstrol that in my humble opinion are superior to deca in their abilities to gain LBM or improving overall conditioning or reducing BF levels. If you want to use a gram of deca a week, I say go for it, because there's nothing I can do to stop you. However, you are using enough for a 6800lb horse, not that there is one. (Vet dosages are 500mgs every two week for every 1700lbs of horse....you are using double that, and doubling the dosage again by only leaving a week inbetween, hence forth 6800lbs.) Can you imagine what you would look like if you used even fina for a 6800lb horse? Holy Shit! Either way, the sides will be dependant on the person, but I highly advise against deca use, because I have been able to avoid the sides, and achieved better results with a primo/Winny combination, or a fina/winny combination. Look deca up by it's chemical name :17-betahydroxiestr-4-on-3-one You will see that it's not all that great of a drug. It got it's popularity because, well, there wasn't much else around when it came out. You had your deca, dbol, test, winstrol, anadrol and that's ABOUT it...So, the drugs current popularity is really a reflection of the past. | ||
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Amateur Bodybuilder 
Posts: 159 |
You are using 600mgs of deca every week? How many weeks have you been using it? | ||
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Cool Novice 
Posts: 12 |
I used 1cc of 300 Deca two times and broke out profusely on the back. I am fair skinned and never had any acne before. Test never had that effect. | ||
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Pro Bodybuilder
Posts: 480 |
I've been using 600mg of Deca for 3 weeks now. I've gone from 196 to 211lbs. Been using 200mg Ru-486 every 2 days. Very good results. I think I'm going to go for 1000mg of Deca next week, not sure still though. MeanOne has posted dsome intriguing data. Still waiting for 2Thicks advice, he's been using Deca longest....BTW I use 300mg/ml Ttokkyo Deca. Taking only 2.2cc's now. 1000mg's would be about 3.5 cc's. Not a lot.... 20 cc's would be crazy meanOne...6000mg/d WTF? Godspeed | ||
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Pro Bodybuilder
Posts: 311 |
at least you are taking the highest concentration of the deca around...i thought you were maybe doing the 50mg/ml or soemthing else low ------------------ | ||
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Pro Bodybuilder
Posts: 480 |
Bump for 2Thick.....the funiest MOD on the net. Huck, if you have the time...thanks.... Godspeed | ||
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Pro Bodybuilder
Posts: 480 |
Bumpty Bump, I'm so plast****. I won my game... Come on 2Thick and Huck and all Mods..... Godspeed | ||
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Pro Bodybuilder
Posts: 480 |
Humpty Bumpty BUMP!!!! Godspeed | ||
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Moderator 
Posts: 1873 |
Well Fonz i am the total opposite of 2thick, i hate Deca, and love test, if you arent have sides keep increasing untill you do have sides, then you will know your limit personally i would rather take high levels of test instead but that is MY preferance ------------------ | ||
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Moderator
Posts: 1873 |
oh PS glad to see you finally went to the needle ------------------ | ||
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Elite Bodybuilder 
Posts: 1010 |
Why do you want to increase the dosasges if you are still making good gains? I can't speak for 2Thick, but I think he'll say the same thing. | ||
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Pro Bodybuilder
Posts: 480 |
I'm making amazing gains..... 4lbs a week. But...this is going to go down...I'm just curious as to wether it is safe to inject 1000mg+/week with Ru-486. Godspeed 2Thick and Huck please come down to | ||
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Amateur Bodybuilder
Posts: 58 |
Wait a minute? You said you prefer Deca over Test because test makes you break out? Deca makes me break out WAY far worse than test and it also cause's MORE hair loss. I know I'm not alone in this because I've seen others with similar complaints. Deca is over rated and I'll take the Test any day. No comparison........... | ||
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Pro Bodybuilder
Posts: 480 |
Bump for the night shift.... 1:35 AM here and counting.... Godspeed | ||
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Pro Bodybuilder
Posts: 480 |
BBBUUUUURRRPPP!!!!!!!!! Godspeed | ||
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Moderator
Posts: 5605 |
Well,deca certainly is quite potent at the A/R,exhibiting three times the potency and effectiveness as test at the same dosages.BUT,it is a piss-poor representative in class-II(non-A/R)activities,whereas test excels.I would actually think you would amplify the effects MUCH greater by tossing in a class-II anabolic such as d-bol or winstrol at a moderate dosage(around 50mgs/day of either),as opposed to just adding more class-I activity by upping the deca dosage another 400mgs/week,and neglecting its shortcomings(lack of non-A/R mediated activity).Just my .02 buddy  | ||
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Pro Bodybuilder
Posts: 480 |
Thanks Huck. I will now be stacking the 1000mgs Deca/week with 100mg winstrol/day(powder), 50mg dball'day, and 200mg Fina/day w/DMSO. Hoping to see some serious gains. So far went from 196 to 212 in 3.5 weeks with just DECA at 600mg/week. The question still remains wether this is physiologically safe. I guess I'll be the guinea pig. Godspeed Hopefully 2Thick the night owl will rise and shine and answer my questions. | ||
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Amateur Bodybuilder
Posts: 106 |
i have an idea... why dont you sick out this cycle just as it is. you are making great gains, and if it aint broke, dont fix it. Keep doing cycles at this dosage(600/w), and when they start losing effectiveness, throw in some other gear. After about 15 cycles, and weighing in at 340lbs, you can try deca at 700mgs/w. just doesnt seem justifiable to make such a large dosage jump when 1. it isn't neccessary, current dose is working great. 2. you haven't added a steroid that is effective outside the a/r site, thuscovering all the bases. | ||
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Moderator
Posts: 6734 |
I thought about this and it sounded great (with the RU-486) until I remembered that there are several other side effects related to Deca besides prog gyno. You will have more DHT related problems and no real gain in weight gain (once you go past 700-800mg/week. Since it mainly helps with protein synthesis, you cannot possibly get enough protein to fully utilize the extra deca dosage. I would still limit it at 600-800 since you will be stacking it anyway and actually using so much more. I also agree with Anabolicum Mister about the dosage. | ||
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Pro Bodybuilder
Posts: 480 |
I don't understand your reasoning 2Thick. How can the limit of deca be only 600-800mg/week? Test is three times less anabolic, yet people make the same gains as Deca(1000test vs 1000deca). If DHT is a problem, one can just take a 5-alpha reductase inhibitor like proscar to inhibit the DHT-related side effects? isn' t that so? I think I'm going to go with 800mg/week w/Ru-486 and proscar as 2Thick recommended Still curious as to why Deca has such a low dosage/max gains level, while the test dosages I've seen on this board and in real-life just keep going up and up. Godspeed | ||
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Moderator
Posts: 5605 |
DO NOT USE PROSCAR IN CONJUNCTION WITH DECA...Deca is reduced to a less harmful steroid steroid when it reaches the scalp...Using finasteride blocks this reduction process and the result is full strength nandrolone being released on the scalp,which is basically the equivalent to Testosterone with no finasteride...Very destructive on the hair follicle... [This message has been edited by HUCKLEBERRY FINNaplex (edited February 14, 2001).] | ||
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Pro Bodybuilder
Posts: 480 |
Ok Huck, you got my attention... No proscar then... But I'm still wary of the DHT increase. Is this DHT increase going to be reduced due to the fact that deca(nortestosterone) converts to DHT less efficienly. Wait, is it DHT or Nor-DHT? I'm getting confused now because Nortestosterone converts to nor-estrogen..... Godspeed | ||
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Moderator
Posts: 6734 |
From my understanding the reason high dosages of test are feasible and high dosages of Deca are harmful (or not beneficial) is because test stimulates the satellite cells and increases androgen receptors and also stimulates the CNS. Deca does not seem to do this (or do it as well) so higher dosages will do nothing beneficial after a certain dosage. | ||
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Amateur Bodybuilder
Posts: 195 |
Hey 2thick, what do you mean by dht problems? Nandrolone converts to DHN not dht. Is there another reason that one would have dht problems with high dosages of nandrolone? | ||
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Cool Novice
Posts: 23 |
bump | ||
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Amateur Bodybuilder
Posts: 159 |
Holy Shit Dude. You have some major issues, now I understand why they were saying things about ya on chat. Then at the advice of a mod you now want to stack it with 100mgs of winstrol every day and 50mgs of dianabol every day. You shouldnt even be using if you cant think of things like this before you start your cycle. ------------------ | ||
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Amateur Bodybuilder
Posts: 224 |
My understanding (and maybe I am wrong) is that dosages of Deca over 600mg/week are unnecessary simply because they have no further effect. If this is your first injectable cycle and you are making great gains, then why do you want to prematurely downgrade your steroid receptors by taking such high doses? Once you reach the optimal doses of any steroid you should then use them in combination with different steroids, have cycles without them for a while and then when all this fails to work, its time to take a steroid holiday for 6-12 months. | ||
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Pro Bodybuilder
Posts: 480 |
Solid steel, Huck recommended stacking the Deca with d-ball only. I'm the one that added the Fina+ winstrol. Besides, 100mg/day winny and the 200mg Fina/DMSO is only a moderate dosage. You're probably thinking why I want to use such a high steroid level, right? Even though I've been using high doses of orals for 3.5 years, cycling them, this is my frst injectable cycle. I want to get the best gains possible, period. Looking for about 50lbs in 20 weeks. I think I can pull it off. Gaining 4lbs/week as it is. Going to go with 1000mg/week of DECA for the next two weeks. If I don't see any difference at 1000mg/week over 600mg/week, or if unforeseen sides creep up, I will go back down to 600mg/week. Oh, and I will increase my RU-486 dosage to 200mg everyday, Better safe than sorry. This will be my little experiment. And 2Thick, eating protein is not a problem. I can eat 800g/day no problem. 10mg of ketotifen daily and you'll know what hunger is.....which in my opinion kicks the shit out of EQ in terms of hunger stimulation. Took 600mg EQ last week(almost fainted injecting, with the DECA this was 5cc's) (using 200mg/ml Ttokkyo), and noticed just a small increase in hunger. I'll post the results if anybody is interested. Godspeed | ||
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Amateur Bodybuilder
Posts: 159 |
Fonz we both have the same mind. To get big use big. However this thing you mentioned holds little weight since you havent yet used eq so can not 'in your opinion' make a statement like you did below "10mg of ketotifen daily and you'll know
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Pro Bodybuilder
Posts: 571 |
Fona, you should know the body can only maintain growth for a certain limited amount of time, and anything past it, the gains will be very slow. 50lbs in 20wks....I say by week 6-8 your going to stop the big size increases and gain 1-2lb's a week IF you are very lucky....but then again, all we can do is say good luck. | ||
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Amateur Bodybuilder
Posts: 88 |
I'd be more worried about sides from RU-486 as almost nobody has tried it (male for bodybuilding purposes). I've heard awhile back in the old MM2000 that RU-486 is also anti-catabolic which is good, but I've never heard any reports on safety or health issues/side effects with it. And good luck finding actual scientific journal studies on this drug for males. I don't think there is anything a doctor can do to combat (pharmacuetically) high progesterone levels in man or woman. It's interesting that you are being a guinea pig though for the bb community as well as Asia the Invinsible. Haven't heard from that dude in awhile. Not trying to scare you bro. I don't think it could be too detrimental, but I have nothing to go on. I wouldn't be careless with it. I've also heard it is not a progesterone stopper as arimidex is to preventing aromatase enzyme from converting test to estrogen. Rather, I've heard that it functions like winny to block Progesterone activity, but not lower actual progesterone levels in the body similar to the way nolvadex works. blocks at receptor sites, but doesn't eliminate estrogen. Regardless, be safe bro. Also have you encountered any liver problems from 3.5 years of orals? Why so long without injectables? Just curious. Good luck and be careful. later. | ||
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Elite Bodybuilder
Posts: 1349 |
Ranger made a good call when he said your are crazy. This is your first injectable cycle and you want to use 1000mg of Deca/week but you are affraid to use TEST. Then you decide to use Fina which is Test is harsh cousin... Deca 1000mg/week will cause problems by itself. I can't even imagine the other problems with the Ru-486. Why do you want to do a 20 week cycle and gain 50lbs. ------------------ | ||
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Pro Bodybuilder
Posts: 480 |
I understand all your concerns, and am grateful but I wil be monitored bi-weekly these next two weeks. A friend of mine is a doctor. Drexx, where did Ranger say I was nuts? I mean, why is 1000mg/week of deca crazy? Some guys here take 2g+ of test/week+a boatload of other substances. Not to mention PGF2A, no studies exactly done on that. I've decided to cut out androgens though and make this an all-anabolic stack. I'm only interested in muscle gain, I'm already strong as it is. Also, dball slows me down due to the bloat. If you play a comp.sport this is unnacceptable. If I need increased aggression I'll use Halo pre-game. So, upon deliberation I'll be using primo tabs(100mg/day), winny !100mg day powder) and 1000mgs/deca weekly. Dropping the Fina and dball. Solid Steel you were correct in saying my statement regarding Ketotifen and EQ was incorrect. One week using EQ isn't enough time for me to judge its effectiveness. I was wrong. As far as my liver is concerned, it is in perfect health. I have an unusually strong liver. I can use high doses of 17-aa's for moderate lengths of time quite safely. The only combo I can't tolerate is Anadrol and dball together. Which im my opinion is still dangerous(LOL MeanOne). But that is only me. Everybody is biologically different, so what works for me might not work for you. As far as RU-486 is concerned, I don't think it is inherently dangerous. I've studied the terratogenic studies, and it passed them with flying colours. | ||
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Moderator
Posts: 5605 |
Hey,I resent that PGF2a comment,lol... | ||
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Pro Bodybuilder
Posts: 480 |
And Mr. Tomatoehead, the reason I just started injectables is that when I was smaller, I got the vaccine for meningitis. However, I made the mistake of flexing my arm. The needle got stuck 1.5" into my arm and the doctor had to remove it with pliers. It's taken me 11 years to overcome that fear(sort-of). Mind over matter. MeanOne, you're probably right. If all goes well I'll gain 12lbs these next 2 weeks training twice a day, 6 days a week. Then, its 38lbs in the next 18 weeks. This is all conjecture at this point, and to tell you the truth I'm pretty impressed with injectables so far...I'd be happy with 20-30lbs. But, I'm a scientist so I strive for maximal efficiency. The funniest part is the way I inject. I take 3g GHB, ice+rubbing alcohol on leg, then inject. If I didn't take the GHB I don't think I'd be able to inject myself. It modulates the pain and fear I associate with needles quite well. Godspeed | ||
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Pro Bodybuilder
Posts: 311 |
damn fonz that needle story sucks ------------------ | ||
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Pro Bodybuilder
Posts: 300 |
that sure sounds like alot of deca | ||
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Pro Bodybuilder
Posts: 480 |
BUMP, and on a second note: I just saw Dorians cycle, and he takes 10 a-bombs a day with 1000mg deca/week!!!! How on earth does he combat progesterone induced gyno? As I recall RU-486 wasn't exactly available 3-4 years ago. Godspeed | ||
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Amateur Bodybuilder
Posts: 185 |
I don't care, I'd rather do a gram of test rather than a gram of deca anyday. ------------------ | ||
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Amateur Bodybuilder
Posts: 144 |
i would love to see some one do 1000 mgs of fina or winny a week! | ||
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Pro Bodybuilder
Posts: 480 |
Houly soldier, I did 1400mg/week of winny for 2 weeks. Also, 50mg/d dball for 12 weeks and, 100mg/d Anavar for 8 weeks an 300mg Fina/day w/DMSO for 1 week. Never went past 1 a-bomb a day though. I don't like them at all. Halo, max was 20mg in one day. Too harsh for my taste. Like I've said for a long time, I have vast experience with high dosages of oral steroids. Godspeed | ||
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Pro Bodybuilder
Posts: 571 |
Hey Fonz, lol, I guess this means that when I said I used up to 10 Anadrol's a day, it wasn't as impossible as you thought, lol. It's cool though, that's a completely different topic. I would be interested in taking a peak into dorians cycles, so if you have a copy can you please send to [email protected] Thanks | ||
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Amateur Bodybuilder
Posts: 108 |
So deca is harsher than test is on the scalp or it is only harsher at 1 gram. Mike | ||
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Amateur Bodybuilder
Posts: 159 |
Reading up on RU 486 and its not as helpful as you think. It is defintely one that hinders gains. I would read up on it. I believe there is a direct correlation between using RU 486 and losing effectivness some of the anabolic properties contained in deca | ||
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Amateur Bodybuilder
Posts: 88 |
I doubt anybody except those very close to Dorain know what he took. I saw a post earlier that revealed his supposed stack, but it was ridiculous, and included things like Parabolan at a gram a week and also finaplix at a gram a week. I don't know if the kits were out back then, but why would somebody take 2gr of the same substance? It also had a ton of GH, slin, a-bombs, etc. I wouldn't believe much of what you read into a pro's supposed cycle. Sure they are jacked to the nine's but I seriously doubt people are taking 10 a-bombs a day for too long if at all. Come to think of it why would a pro take the time to write down a stack they take that involves a fucking boatload of gear. Who wants to admit that they take so much shit? The only reason to write down such a huge stack is so that if you get busted you can try to weasel your way out of having so much gear and an intent to distribute charge, and hope to get a personal amount poss. charge. Either way, I don't think the pros are too keen on telling folks what they take. MeanOne-why so many a-bombs in a day (500mg)and for how long. You had to have some serious prog. induced sides or liver enzymes through the roof. Unless of course you were born with a titanium liver. Of course, like Fonz stated what works for some would be way to strong for others. later. | ||
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Pro Bodybuilder
Posts: 480 |
MeanOne gets called out again...... The Anadrol Wars Part II LOL Godspeed | ||
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Pro Bodybuilder
Posts: 571 |
No, I'm above bickering over this topic anymore Fonz. But I will simply reply, A- liver enzymes only become slightly elevated after 300mgs/day, and I was still in the high-normal zone at 500mgs/day. I had blood work done every week, as I've had done for every cycle I've done the past 3 years (I was stupid my first year out). My total time on Anadrol was 5 weeks, used 500mgs for the fourth week. It went like this: 200mgs 250mgs 350mgs 500mgs 100mgs If you don't care to beleive me, I really couldn't give a flying fuck, lol. And no, I have never suffered from any prog. related side effects. Being that I have also personal used 1200mgs.fina per every 8 days, I don't think 2 grams a wk would be uncommon for a pro. Back in the 80's 500mgs of Anadrol was not unheard of, why would you not think the case is even more true today? | ||
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Amateur Bodybuilder
Posts: 120 |
GOOD POST. TOOK FOR FUCKING EVER TO READ THROUGH, THOUGH. WHATEVER YOU DECIDE, FONZ, STACK, STACK, STACK. THE MORE, THE BETTER. ------------------ | ||
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Pro Bodybuilder
Posts: 480 |
MeanOne simmer down, that was uncalled for. I didn't call you out, Mr. tomatoehead was debating how incredulous your dosages were, not me. Godspeed |
All times are ET (US) | |
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posted February 13, 2001 03:56 PM
