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 in response to THE IRON GAMES post on gyno................Mods especially............
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| Author | Topic: in response to THE IRON GAMES post on gyno................Mods especially............ | ||
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Amateur Bodybuilder 
Posts: 293 |
i have a specific question, i am on my first cycle ever, at around 400 a week of deca, with sus as well, but that is off the topic my question is i have seen that over 600mg of deca, when u reach that high it does nothing good for you, negatives are prevelent and there is more bad than good why is that??how come we can go to around a gram of EQ and as per conan, over 2.5 grams of test, and we dont get as bad sides as 400-600 deca, a difference of around 1 shot or 1cc a week hypothetically im just curious, cause after i am doing doing deca at 600 first week, and 400 for 5 weeks, and 300 for 4 more weeks, what am i going to do dose wise after i am done, say i want to do another cycle of deca with test say around september, or even a deca/winny cycle, i cant go over 600mg?? i dont quite get it also, i know that winstrol helps combat progesterone induced gyno that you get from the deca, and it also helps with the same gyno u get from fina....does that mean that if i use winstrol or enough of the winstrol i can up the deca doses? and even the fina doses at that??? and also my iron bro's, how come there are 2 helpers with the gyno u get from test, etc..., namely nolva and arimidex, but there isnt one for progesterone induced gyno???
------------------ [This message has been edited by Deppnade (edited February 06, 2001).]     | ||
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Moderator 
Posts: 3464 |
I like questions like this....gives me a chance to bash Deca a little more....Progest. induced sides are rare, and there is nothing to say that at 600mg's you'll get them, but it is a chance. Test...well, you know the sides up front, and the precautions we take to combat them are very inexpensive...you know full well what to expect at all times...TEST IS KING!!! EQ aromatizes into a simple estrogen and can easily be controlled with nolva and clomid, if it becomes needed.....this is why EQ is far superior to Deca, and always will be Fina can bind to the progest. recepters much the same way as deca, but due to the short half life, this type gyno is rare....and winny does have some anti-progest. capabilities.... Anti-estrogens are needed for women under going certain types of treatment for cancer, the change of life...etc. Anti-progest. and the only one that springs to mind right off is RU-486 is used as an anti-abortion drug as of late....I've got nothing against Deca personally but for the reason that it is the most over priced, most often counterfieted, and over rated drug on the market....heh heh heh....probally didn't answer all of them, but it's a start bro..... Ranger | ||
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Elite Bodybuilder 
Posts: 615 |
Ranger...I'll never use deca again. | ||
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Guru
Posts: 5521 |
Ranger summed it up beautifully.This is why I never advocate deca with any type of aromitizable gear any more(thanks again to 1911  ).Go with eq,narrow down the potentiality of problems,as well as broaden the solutions to them... | ||
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Amateur Bodybuilder
Posts: 75 |
F Deca. that's what i say. F that shit. deca is dumb unless you have some serious joint pain. | ||
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Pro Bodybuilder 
Posts: 403 |
Well, I think deca is a good AS. However, it doesn't work well for me specifically. I have a friend who can blow up on just 300mgs per week. I mean WTF??? I have tried 400 & 450mgs a week without seeing much at all. I ate good, and got plenty of sleep & rest too. It used to piss me off, but I grow better off of most other As's than my friend so I guess it's no biggie. I will stick to EQ from now on. I feel it's more effective for me, plus I won't have to worry about progest. anymore. ------------------ | ||
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Amateur Bodybuilder
Posts: 293 |
so let me ask you then, what would happen if say i did 100 winny ed or so, could i then bump up the dose of deca to a gram?? also, would it be beneficial to use deca in later cycles when ill use eq at the same time, say 600 mg eq and 600 mg deca?? ------------------ | ||
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Amateur Bodybuilder
Posts: 293 |
huck, when did u become an advocate of the anti-deca club?? i remember u telling me that i should try it, is it recent, your deca thoughts that is???? just curious ------------------ | ||
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Pro Bodybuilder
Posts: 514 |
I am anti-deca all the way never used it and never will. I have only seen negitive effects theres to much out there to waste my time and body with that crap! Mass Monster | ||
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Guru
Posts: 5521 |
Actually bro.I haven't advocated a deca/test stack in months,for the above aforementioned reasons.It simply opens the door to more confusion,if sides start to develope,you can't be sure what route they're orininating from.If I recall correctly,my original cycle I outlined for you had eq,not deca,for this very reason  | ||
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Amateur Bodybuilder
Posts: 78 |
I learned alot from this post. Thanks guys. Wonder if our friend 2Thick will post on this subject ? Peace | ||
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Amateur Bodybuilder
Posts: 108 |
Great thread! | ||
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Freak 
Posts: 1906 |
Ranger, Huck, and anyone else who knew this  I wish you would have critisized my cycle when I posted it. My titties are sore as hell------------------ | ||
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Amateur Bodybuilder
Posts: 55 |
Where's decaman? i'm sure he has something to say on the topic. ------------------ | ||
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Freak
Posts: 1906 |
No seriously, I dont think Deppenade's q on the winny has been answered yet. Would adding 50-75mgs of winny/day help combat the prog related sides of deca. | ||
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Cool Novice 
Posts: 43 |
I can�t believe it! You have your cycle all researched and ready to go (sus, deca, dbol) for weeks and then everybody changes the rules! Guys, do you think problems like those that IG has encountered are due to the high doses of deca, as I have often seen doses of 300 � 400mg / wk posted and advocated with very few problems reported? Also, any ideas on the winny question? | ||
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Freak
Posts: 1906 |
Hey FatRat, I should have been more specific in my question, wiinny will help but I am trying to determine how much it will help and if it would be able to reverse the effects of the damage done. As for the deca, it can only be that, I have been on 1000mgs of test before and dbol at the same amount and never had no problems. I have also been on proviron which prevents aromatization. To me it is clear it is from the deca but what I dont understand is how comes it has set in in under 10 days. ------------------ | ||
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Moderator
Posts: 3464 |
IG, The Sus/Deca/Dbol cycle is one of the classic's Bro....No one knows how Deca will effect them...some more than others... Myself, even at 50mg's per week, taken to reduced site injection pain, or for joints will fuck me up....others can do 600 to 800mg's per week with no problem, and your test dosages were above that of the deca....it's a sad part of the game Bro...high dosages of dbol that once didn't effect me, now begins to bother my tit's....the human body is in constant change, just gotta hear it, and go with the flow Bro..... Ranger | ||
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Pro Bodybuilder
Posts: 327 |
Well, deca gives me gyno, but I wouldn't go so far as to bash it or say I'll never use it again. I loved the lean muscle mass (no water loat on it at all for me) and strength it gave me, but could have gone without the gyno. If I do it again, first I won't stay at a high dosage for more than four weeks before I taper down. Second, I will not do it without winny on hand. Enough winny to do at least 50mg/eod. The winny I took at the end of that deca cycle cleaned the gyno right up, and pretty quickly too. Will winny work that well for others in getting rid of gyno? I don't know, and hope you never have to find out. | ||
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Freak
Posts: 1906 |
Thanks Ranger, any chance of dropping me an e-mail. Peace | ||
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Cool Novice
Posts: 43 |
Iron Game, Sorry to do this to ya bro, but I was just searching for posts about RU-486, and its effects on progesterone gyno, and found this on a thread started by BigJay81 asking about it otc over here. I�ll quote your post if I may:
What are the current feelings about RU-486 by the experts? | ||
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Freak
Posts: 1906 |
haha FatRat, 2 flaws in that. One it is not yet available OTC over here yet & 2 it is from deca and I havent used prior to this before ------------------ | ||
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Amateur Bodybuilder
Posts: 293 |
so where are our other mods?slopain? i am still curious, Iron Game brings it up in a reply and still no one touches the subject if i get winny in mass quantities, say a 50ml bottle, can i jack up the mg's a week of deca to close to a gram i am curious because with such a potent drug it is silly that we have to stop at around 600 wouldnt u say?? also, huck, i may have caught you, the reason my cycle had origianlly had eq was because i used to play football and i would have tested mad easy for the deca, that wasnt the case anymore so i went ahead with the deca
------------------ [This message has been edited by Deppnade (edited February 07, 2001).] | ||
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Elite Bodybuilder
Posts: 939 |
Iron Game, in answering your question, NO, winny won't help a damn bit if your taking Deca. I know from personal experience, because at taking 600mg of Deca a week for 4 straight weeks, my nips got so sore and puffy, that i ceased use of the deca alltogether. I was, and still am, taking 50mg of Winny every single fucking day. Also i took Nolvadex religiously, up to 80mg a day, and it subsided very slowly, and now im stuck with a little puffiness in the nipples and i can feel tissue underneath them. Hey, maybe everyone is different, but in my opinion, DECA fucking sucks. All it has given me is terrible acne that will not go away for nothing, and a small case of gyno. I don't really know if its full blown gyno though. It may subside and go away after the deca is out of my system. And, i didn't really fall in love with EQ when i first took it, but i can tell you that it will be included in all the rest of my cycles from now on. I know it made me vascular and it helped with building mass without all the bloat. So stay away from deca. My .02 cents. ------------------ EMAIL: [email protected] | ||
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Moderator
Posts: 3464 |
Sorry Hardcore, but once ya got Deca induced gyno...ya got it...Armidex will reduce existing gyno to the point of nullity....but it's still there Bro.... Ranger | ||
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Freak
Posts: 1906 |
Ranger, why did you have to go and say that | ||
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Elite Bodybuilder
Posts: 939 |
Ranger you SOB....lol.....why did you have to say that! AH! So what you are telling me, is that by taking Arimidex at the point i am at now, will reduce the existing gyno that i have, but that it will still be there a little? ------------------ EMAIL: [email protected] | ||
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Amateur Bodybuilder
Posts: 293 |
where are the other freakin mods??? ------------------ | ||
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Moderator
Posts: 1610 |
Winstrol will block the progestenic effects of DECA in SOME people. For the same reason DECA gives gyno to some and not others. Mainly receptor affinity and binding- in some people WINSTROL may bind stronger than Deca to the PR and in others not. In some people Deca may barely bind and activate(these people can use deca with little fear) and in others(these people get gyno from deca at relatively low dosages) it binds and activates receptor very strongly. ------------------ | ||
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Moderator
Posts: 3464 |
Alas, From the Mountains of the Dark...The Dark One cometh's, again to drink the nectar of the Gods(test) and to rid this land of the scourge called Deca..... I knew you'd come forth Macro..... Heh heh heh heh Ranger | ||
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Moderator
Posts: 1641 |
Good one Ranger(from the mountains ......). I'm with macro the problems with the deca is not for everybody,the same happ. with the deca dick,not everybody experience that.You need to understand you body,what can affect and what not. ------------------ | ||
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Amateur Bodybuilder
Posts: 293 |
thanks guys, you think any of you guys can answer some of the questions i have asked in earlier replys? thanks ------------------ | ||
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Cool Novice
Posts: 11 |
I was just about to get some deca, to stack with sust, but i dont think i will now. Question is what would be good substitutes for mass, but without loads of water retention?? Mick | ||
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Amateur Bodybuilder
Posts: 80 |
Raffaz, equipoise aka eq | ||
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Elite Bodybuilder
Posts: 685 |
Fina needs some input also. I used 1.5cc eod for 4 weeks and then in the last week the gyno signs erupted. I am very deca sensative and can no longer use it. After 50mg eod of winny for 2 weeks the gyno dramatically dropped. Just my experience. | ||
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Elite Bodybuilder
Posts: 944 |
I don't like deca either. It is the most overrated AS ever conceived. -TG | ||
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Moderator
Posts: 3464 |
2Thick and Decaman......Chicken.....??????? Where are all the Deca is the greatest advocates???? Heh heh heh Ranger | ||
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Amateur Bodybuilder
Posts: 80 |
quote: lmao | ||
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Novice 
Posts: 9 |
In my experience, decca is only useful if stacked. For instance, 200 mg/week decca - 250 mg/week sust - 15/20 mg/day d-bol. Decca binds to specific receptors, but the aromatization is high. Therefor, mega-doses of decca are a waste. Stack it in with some d-bol or test (or both) at about 200 mg/week at most for best results. After eight weeks, cycle off. Take anti-es' if you bloat up or get symtoms of gyno. EQ works well for me near the end of a cycle, along with some clen, clomid, and HCG. The only A.S. I've ever had major problems with is A-50. That crap is poison. ------------------ | ||
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Elite Bodybuilder
Posts: 939 |
Well, stacking deca, taking it by itself, with winny to block progesterone, etc. Who gives a fuck. It just sucks. My damn nipples are still sore, not growin anymore gyno i don't believe, but its about to drive me crazy. Oh, and BO BANKS.....its: ------------------ EMAIL: [email protected] | ||
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Guru
Posts: 5521 |
LOL...Deppnade,you haven't gotten an answer,because quite frankly,one doesn't exist at this point.The whole "Winstrol blocking off P/R sites from deca/anadrol theory"is only a couple of years old,and was brought to the forefront by Guru Bill Roberts.It simply hasn't been explored enough to give definitive,factual answers on yet.Macro's post was about as close to an answer as we can give at this point... What I can pass along is what I have observed and what I've seen work.But bare in mind,EVERYONE RESPONDS DIFFERENTLY.I feel that winstrol does not "override"Progestin's signal at the P/R,rather,it simply binds to those P/R's that have not already been occupied.Because it is not progestogenic,it occupies the P/R in an idle state,and in a sense de-activates it,by not allowing progestin to bind to it.Based on that,I believe it may be more benificial to start winstrol BEFORE you begin administering deca,so that it's already occupying as many P/R's as possible,shielding them from being binded to and activated by progestin.As well,I believe you should run the winstrol a couple of weeks past the deca,in a sense "enveloping" it.Just a theory of mine,take it for what it's worth.And bare in mind,all of this is irrelevant to those who are not sensitive to progesterone.Now on to what I've observed-I have seen 50mgs/day of winstrol work quite well at 400mgs/week of deca on individuals who display hyper-sensitivity to gyno/bloat(including yours truly).Does this mean that 100mgs/day will work at a gram a week of deca?Maybe,maybe not.It's an individuality issue,and there's only one way to know for sure,hehheh... | ||
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Amateur Bodybuilder
Posts: 293 |
hey huck, ill be a test rat, if you pay for the experiment ------------------ |
All times are ET (US) | |
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posted February 06, 2001 09:43 PM
