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  Creatine may soon be banned

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Author Topic:   Creatine may soon be banned
neo1605

Novice

Posts: 4
From:Eastern MA
Registered: Jan 2001

posted January 25, 2001 07:06 PM

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Check out this articel that I found on ESPN: http://espn.go.com/moresports/news/2001/0125/1039771.html

Tell me what you guys think


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bz savage

Cool Novice

Posts: 43
From:walnut creek
Registered: Dec 2000

posted January 25, 2001 10:44 PM

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dont knw what to say..


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scubasteve

Amateur Bodybuilder

Posts: 103
From:Ft. Lauderdale
Registered: Jan 2001

posted January 25, 2001 10:47 PM

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If you inject 10 grams of creatine into lab rats every day, they dont feel well. What is not cancerous in some way? I bet if they researched it enough, carrots are cancerous as well.

I get a lot from Creatine. I once gained 20 pounds on that stuff.


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Myomorph

Amateur Bodybuilder

Posts: 138
From:Chicago
Registered: Jan 2001

posted January 25, 2001 11:00 PM

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Frogs generally aren't very muscular ;o)


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liltank

Amateur Bodybuilder

Posts: 215
From:
Registered: Aug 2000

posted January 25, 2001 11:26 PM

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damm and here i was getting ready to get big...guess i will have to give up my plans to get big on creatine and just take some roids instead lol



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2Thick

Moderator

Posts: 6248
From:Me, To You
Registered: Jun 2000

posted January 26, 2001 01:26 PM

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Creatine is very useful...so if they ban it they will have gone too far.


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MP5

Freak

Posts: 1724
From:your nightmares
Registered: Feb 2000

posted January 26, 2001 01:55 PM

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It worked to build my muscle. They have obviously never tried it.

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The_Iron_Game

Freak

Posts: 1565
From:Great Britain
Registered: Oct 2000

posted January 26, 2001 01:59 PM

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Guess what was written all over the UK papers today?

Creatine causes cancer.


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stalker

Amateur Bodybuilder

Posts: 126
From:The Dark Side
Registered: Sep 2000

posted January 26, 2001 02:27 PM

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This following article is from Dave's Powerstore newsletter, and has about all you need to see that this article is the biggest piece of bullshit ever:


From: Mark Tarnopolsky
RE: Creatine and Cancer

To whom it may concern:

There has recently been a rash of misinformation that has been spread around the world that has arisen from a statement made by a Mr. ? Dr. ? Martin Husch for the French Agency of Medical Security for Food (AFSSA), claiming a link between creatine monohydrate supplementation and cancer.
This is not supported by the literature and it is unfortunate that medical misinformation can be spread throughout the world so rapidly. This agency claims to have
reviewed the literature using nutritional experts (yet does not list them so we can judge their credentials), and the
author has not published a single paper in a peer reviewed journal (at least none that have appeared in PubMed). I found the statement to be somewhat inaccurate in several areas (with the exception that it states that creatine increases muscle cell water (10 %) - this is high and it is
more likely 3 - 4 %)). The MAJOR problems come when they/?he tries to make a comment about the potential side effects:

1. approximate translation of the AFSSA statement on cancer "considering that creatine and creatinine under certain
circumstances, particularly in the presence of simple sugars and elevated amino acids, could have carcinogenic effects based on preliminary experimental arguments in vitro and in vivo have been equivocal".
[I am not aware of any studies showing that creatine taken with sugar and amino acids is carcinogenic - especially when taken in physiological amounts - any compound, even
amino acids may be carcinogenic in high doses (see MSDS label on leucine!)]. The real issue comes with the statement that "with the potentially carcinogenic effects..." - this is unfounded and certainly the jump to
stating that epidemiological studies have shown a link is complete fabrication and misinformation. This sort of misinformation is as bad as the health care fraud that some folks claim regarding unproven agents.

I do agree that we need to concern ourselves about impurities in creatine and any unregulated substances (ie. Problems previously with tryptophan and eosinophilic
myositis) and I am all for creatine and other
neutraceuticals being exposed to rigorous purity testing by federal agencies - I do know that most of the creatine for
the neurology studies is exposed to careful testing for impurities and other chemical standards - Many of the large reputable companies in the US and Canada buy their creatine from high quality sources.

It then goes on to say that the effects of high levels of creatine ingestion has not been studied in the short or long
term (yet they claim there have been epidemiological studies). They quote that there are epidemiological studies
showing difficulties with digestion, muscle cramps and apparently cardiovascular problems (???????? - not sure where this comes from - there are in fact 2 studies in humans with congestive heart failure showing benefits to
performance and studies in animals showing cardioprotective effects and we have shown that it does not affect blood pressure (Mihic, et al, Med Sci Sports Exerc, 2000)).

There are other issues with this - firstly there have been no true epidemiological studies of creatine use and papers
are suggesting from this article that epidemiological studies show a possible risk - THIS IS ABSOLUTELY INCORRECT.

In the final summary they state that supplementation with creatine constitutes a risk, but it has been insufficiently
evaluated, particularly in the long-term. With the potentially carcinogenic effects, it would be necessary for the regular reevaluation of studies.

I am shocked that this amount of misinformation can be placed on the internet by such an agency claiming legitimacy
and trying to advocate for the good of people. This type of speculative misinformation does not serve the interests of anyone. Our group and others are carefully evaluating the risks and benefits of creatine monohydrate ingestion in
patients with neuromuscular and neurometabolic disorders as well as in human aging - Patients reading this stuff in the
papers have already called to drop out of studies.

Creatine may be very helpful in a number of medical conditions and thanks to this inaccurate statement we will all have difficulty in recruiting and retaining subjects. Unfortunately, it is very difficult for the lay public to
evaluate the quality of the information and the AFSSA statement violates many of the key factors to look for in judging legitimacy:

1. The person signing their name to the statement does not list their credentials.

2. The supposed scientists who evaluated the literature are not listed.

3. There is no evidence of external review of the statement.

4. The statement has internal inconsistencies (medium and long term studies not done and yet concludes that epidemiological studies show their may be a cancer risk).

5. There are no references to peer reviewed studies to support the statement.

THERE ARE NO STUDIES IN HUMANS EVEN SUGGESTING AN INCREASED RISK OF CANCER WITH CREATINE.

There are many papers showing an anti-cancer effect of creatine in animals:

Jeong KS, Park SJ, Lee CS, Kim TW, Kim SH, Ryu SY, Williams
BH, Veech RL, Lee YS.Effects of cyclocreatine in rat hepatocarcinogenesis model. Anticancer Res 2000
May-Jun;20(3A):1627-33

Kristensen CA, Askenasy N, Jain RK, Koretsky AP. Creatine
and cyclocreatine treatment of human colon adenocarcinoma
xenografts: 31P and 1H magnetic resonance spectroscopic
studies. Br J Cancer 1999 Jan;79(2):278-85

Schiffenbauer YS, Meir G, Cohn M, Neeman M. Cyclocreatine
transport and cytotoxicity in rat glioma and human ovarian
carcinoma cells: 31P-NMR spectroscopy. Am J Physiol 1996
Jan;270(1 Pt 1):C160-9

Ara G, Gravelin LM, Kaddurah-Daouk R, Teicher BA Antitumor
activity of creatine analogs produced by alterations in
pancreatic hormones and glucose metabolism. In Vivo 1998
Mar-Apr;12(2):223-31

Miller EE, Evans AE, Cohn M. Inhibition of rate of tumor
growth by creatine and cyclocreatine.Proc Natl Acad Sci U S
A 1993 Apr 15;90(8):3304-8 There are several reviews of
creatine so people can get their facts straight: Casey A,
Greenhaff PL Does dietary creatine supplementation play a
role in skeletal muscle metabolism and performance? Am J
Clin Nutr 2000 Aug;72(2 Suppl):607S-17S

Tarnopolsky MA Potential benefits of creatine monohydrate
supplementation in the elderly. Curr Opin Clin Nutr Metab
Care 2000 Nov;3(6):497-502

Terjung RL, Clarkson P, Eichner ER, Greenhaff PL, Hespel PJ,
Israel RG, Kraemer WJ, Meyer RA, Spriet LL, Tarnopolsky MA,
Wagenmakers AJ, Williams MH American College of Sports
Medicine roundtable. The physiological and health effects of
oral creatine supplementation. Med Sci Sports Exerc 2000
Mar;32(3):706-17

Wyss M, Kaddurah-Daouk R. Creatine and creatinine
metabolism. Physiol Rev 2000 Jul;80(3):1107-213

There are several reviews of safety: Poortmans JR, Francaux
M Adverse effects of creatine supplementation: fact or
fiction? Sports Med 2000 Sep;30(3):155-70

Mihic S, MacDonald JR, McKenzie S, Tarnopolsky MA. Acute
creatine loading increases fat-free mass, but does not
affect blood pressure, plasma creatinine, or CK activity in
men and women. Med Sci Sports Exerc. 2000 Feb;32(2):291-6.

Terjung RL, Clarkson P, Eichner ER, Greenhaff PL, Hespel PJ,
Israel RG, Kraemer WJ, Meyer RA, Spriet LL, Tarnopolsky MA,
Wagenmakers AJ, Williams MH American College of Sports
Medicine roundtable. The physiological and health effects of
oral creatine supplementation. Med Sci Sports Exerc 2000
Mar;32(3):706-17

I would hope that Reuters, ESPN, National Post, Associated Press, etc. would get their facts straight before they put out misinformation. I know that a flashy
inflammatory and inaccurate statement is better for press, but please think of the patients who are involved in the
studies and those who may stand to benefit from carefully controlled evaluation of the risks and benefits of creatine
supplementation. Yes, there may be some side effects, but please, let the researchers evaluate what these are and the
incidence so that people can evaluate the risks and benefits of supplementation in an unbiased manner.

Sincerely,

Mark Tarnopolsky, MD, PhD, FRCP(C),
Neuromuscular Disease Unit,
4U4 Neurology,
McMaster University Medical Center,
Hamilton, Ontario, CANADA, L8N 3Z5


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skippy

Amateur Bodybuilder

Posts: 128
From:
Registered: Nov 2000

posted January 26, 2001 02:29 PM

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Creatine does make me feel sick. I quit using it because it gave me a headache and overall sick feeling. But it does work for gainng or retaining. However, I am opposed to banning it which is probably what will happen making it even more popular.


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thesuperstar

Pro Bodybuilder

Posts: 347
From:FLORIDA
Registered: Jan 2000

posted January 26, 2001 02:40 PM

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we sue bill philips for bring creatine out... now we all have cancer.

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http://thesuperstar.pathbot.com


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Jay Z

Elite Bodybuilder

Posts: 1204
From:MI
Registered: Feb 2000

posted January 26, 2001 03:41 PM

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To tell you the truth, i don't give a shit about creatine...I quit using it a long time ago. Just tried it for the hype. Many more supplements are going to come and go...some because they'll be banned and some because they won't sell because they don't work.

The real 'stuff' will always be a better value and give gains that one will keep, not piss away two weeks after they're done. So in a word, they can ban whatever they want...the real stuff is already banned here and many people still usesit with REAL results.


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