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  ****INSULIN TO GET HUGE****

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Author Topic:   ****INSULIN TO GET HUGE****
The_Iron_Game

Freak

Posts: 1511
From:Great Britain
Registered: Oct 2000

posted January 24, 2001 11:03 AM

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Good article:

What do we know about Insulin?

a) It's highly anabolic

b) The top boys all use it

c) It's misuse could kill you

These are the basic facts and the problem is that for many of us (a) & (b) outweigh (c). It's not that bodybuilders have a death wish, it's just that people think it won't happen to them. Look at how many people smoke.

Many of you have used or are seriously considering using insulin to get big, and no amount of scare-mongering by myself or anyone else is going to put you off. they used to tell us steroids were horrendously dangerous and would not improve performance didn't they?

I'm going to tell you what I would do if I wanted to use insulin to get big without ending up in a diabetic coma and possibly dead. Firstly, and very basically as I am not a doctor. I will explain how insulin works to make us big. Insulin is a hormone which is manufactured in the pancreas and it pushes glucose and amino acids into the muscles, Nice - right where you want them. on the down side it also tells your fat cells to suck up glucose as well, so you could end up being one fat bastard!

The are six types of insulin available which break down into thirty-one preparations, of which I would choose one of the short acting types. By short acting we mean that it is active for relatively short period of time which I feels should make it more predictable, therefore safer. I would choose Humulin-S made by Lilly (yes, they do also make Humetrope (3H) which has onset of about 30 minutes and it's action peaks for the next 31/2 hours with the duration of action over in 12 hours. I feel that this would be a good choice as it kicks in quickly and doesn't peak for too long, you can feel it working once it's taken effect. I would probably notice in it after about an hour or less if my blood sugar was already low.

After healthy individual has eaten Carbohydrates their pancreas should secrete insulin to lower their blood sugar back to a "normal" level. When we take exogenous insulin we are doing this the other way round because we have to eat enough to bring our blood sugar level up to a normal level. You could and should really buy a blood sugar testing kit from the Pharmacists, so that you can really keep check on it, but I don't feel that this is essential. When your blood sugar starts to drop too much you will know it's happening. You get the shakes, you go very pale, your skin becomes cold to the touch and you sweat profusely. this is not how you want to be, it means you've messed up and gone into a hypoglycaemic state, if you don't eat plenty of high glycaemic carbohydrates and you can't regulate itself then you could end up in a hypoglycaemic coma. This is why the stuff is so dangerous, take too much and you won't be able to eat enough, quickly enough to stop this happening. I've heard many a story of bodybuilders sweating away eating packets of biscuits, cereal and bottle after bottle of sugary drinks try desperately to bring their blood sugar back up.

A "more is better" attitude is very dangerous when it comes to insulin use and you only need a small amount to get good results anyway. you can only measure insulin out in an insulin syringe, it will either hold 100 i.u or 50 i.u. Don't even consider trying to use a 2ml syringe as you would for steroids -these just aren't accurate enough.

I would on take insulin on training days and I would take it just after my workout, followed by a good hundred grams of carbohydrates and fifty grams of Whey protein. this could all be in a drink, or I could have say a potato, and a protein drink, depending on what I had available. I would eat the same kind of thing again 2 1/2 to 3 hours later. If I was taking Creatine then this is when I would take it along with some Chromium Picolinate as this helps to improve Insulin sensitivity. the amount that I would take would depend on my bodyweight: If I was 100 to 175lbs then I would use 6 i.u. if I weighed 176 to 220lbs then I would use 10 or at most 12 i.u's of insulin.

If I was a steroid user then I would use the insulin along with the course plus something to keep bodyfat off. Growth Hormone would be my first choice, but it is not cheap so, I would probably make do with T3, Clenbuterol or an Ephedrine/caffeine/aspirin stack. I would probably use insulin for about 4 weeks on with 6 weeks off. If you use too much for too long you own production could slow down or even stop and you could end up diabetic.

Certain people should not use insulin at all.

These are: -

Fat people: Insulin will make a fat bodybuilder into a very fat bodybuilder, Not good.

People who cannot read a syringe: If you can't get to grips with this milligrams per millilitres thing, then keep well away from insulin. You cannot afford to make mistakes with this stuff.

People who hide drugs from their partner or don't tell them they use drugs: If you use this stuff you need to tell someone responsible about it, in case it all goes wrong.

Up until recently you could buy insulin very cheaply over the counter in Pharmacists (well in U.K you could), but because of "misuse" by bodybuilders and other athletes, it is now classed as a prescription only medicine. If you do start feeling all hypo then a big glass of apple juice should do the trick but do try to avoid getting in that state at all. Always have some glucose tablets or powder with you when you've had your shot, and as I've said let some responsible know what you are doing. I honestly feel that this is potentially the most dangerous drug that we use, so please be careful.

One last important point - It should be kept in the fridge!

------------------


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anabolic24/7

Amateur Bodybuilder

Posts: 210
From:TN
Registered: Oct 2000

posted January 24, 2001 11:12 AM

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Whew ! I think I'll just stay real big and pass on huge. :-)


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ripped to shreads2

Elite Bodybuilder

Posts: 869
From:satans nest
Registered: Jun 2000

posted January 24, 2001 11:16 AM

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iam thinking about using it between cycles but i need to learn a lot more about it first


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Nutzz

Amateur Bodybuilder

Posts: 116
From:City, State, US
Registered: Oct 2000

posted January 24, 2001 11:17 AM

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Good post. I am starting insulin right now. Took my first 10IU shot this AM with 100grams of carbs and 50grams of whey/egg protein and 20 grams of creatine and 20 grams glutamine peptides. I am using Humalog and I never felt the spike @ about 15 minutes, I felt the peak @ 1 hour and ate 1 large sweet potato and 30 grams of whey protein. I was a little warm, but not sweaty during the peak. The second hour has now passed and I feel like my self.


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Nutzz

Amateur Bodybuilder

Posts: 116
From:City, State, US
Registered: Oct 2000

posted January 24, 2001 11:25 AM

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This was posted before by MONSTER, i just copied and pasted it.

Ok, lets have a look at insulin.
Its highly anabolic and non-androgenic, and in case some of you are in the dark (I'd like to think we're all clear on anabolic versus androgenic, but ya never know) I'll briefly touch on the subject before diving in... if youre ok on anabolic/androgenic concepts, skip to the INSULIN part...

ANDROGENIC VERSUS ANABOLIC

ANABOLIC is defined as "The process of constructive metabolism" or of building complex substances out of simple substances.
The way your body processes protien, carbohydrates, and fat (all simple substances) and makes muscle (a complex substance) is ANABOLISM.

ANDROGENIC is basically defined as pertaining to male sex characteristics.

ANDROGENIC/ANABOLIC

"Steroids" are actually called "Anabolic Androgenic Steroids." They accomplish "anabolism" through "anabolic" pathways, some being more androgenic (testosterone esters) and some less (winstrol, anavar, primobolan, ect...).
Most often, with reduced androgenic properties comes reduced anabolic properties, but it isnt always cut and dry. If anyone is interested I'll go into it another time, but lets head toward the insulin topic.


INSULIN: NonAndrogenic but Anabolic

Insulin is NOT a sex hormone. It is not related in any way to testosterone, or to estrogen for that matter. It is a product of the pancreas as opposed to testosterone which is a product of the HPTA, pituitary, gonadal, leydig, mishmash of interconnected glands...


WHY IS INSULIN ANABOLIC

So why is insulin anabolic then? Insulin is a partitioning agent. A "shuttle" if you will.
Picture insulin as a bus. Nutrients board the bus, and insulin pulls away and drops off the nutrients at the proper bus stop. That is basically what it does, and for all intents and purposes that is everything you need to know to understand how it works.
So by insulin shuttling these nutrient where they need to go, it enables anabolism and is therefor anabolic!


WHY NOT JUST TAKE CARBS TO RAISE INSULIN

Well, the amount of carbs you would need to take in to increase natural insulin levels to the degree a 10 i.u. shot would would be far more dangerous than using insuiln (and using insulin is NOT that hard OR dangerous).
Carbs at that level would eventually lead to diabetes and fat gains.
If insulin is a bus taking nutrients where they need to go, then exogenous insulin is a bullet train! It can hold far more nutrients than a normal naturally produced burst of insulin can, and it works quicker. Exogenous insulin is the most efficient way to accomplish glycogen overcompensation, period.


WHAT KIND DO I TAKE

Im a major supporter of fast acting insulin. The faster the better!
Currently he fastest acting insulin available is Humalog. It is active in 15 minutes, peaks in 1 hour and clears the system around 2 hours.
Next would be Humalin-R. It is active in about 30 minutes, peaks at the 2 hour mark, and clears the system at the 4 hour mark.
"Biophasics" are mixtures of fast and slow acting insulins, but are not the best choice in my opinion, due to an active dose being in you throughout the day. The reason you dont want that will be covered in the "HOW DO I USE IT" section.
There are also Humalin-L and Humalin-S, but they are long acting, and are no more use to me than the Biophasics. There are also porccine and bovine derived insulin, but I am against injecting animal derived substances.

WHEN (AND HOW MUCH) TO USE

Im going to assume we want to avoid any fat gains at all. Even bulking I dont like to gain any unneccesary fat, so Im going to disuss it from that stand point.
The ultra conservative time to use insulin is post-workout. Most people who are concerned about fat dont go over 10 i.u. as a total dose.
Some people us it on waking, before breakfast, since your body is in a basically carb depleted state. Its the kind of thng you have to try for yourslef, and if it works for you, do it. If you thnk youre gaining fat, stop. BUT! Dont start it at both times at once. Make sure you get your post workout dosage worked out and that you know it is not causing you any fat gains before you try pre-breakfast shots. That way you can take out all the guess work as to where any fat gains may come from.


DISPELLING A FEW MYTHS

There is a commoly held perception that you MUSt take in 10grams of carbs per I.U. of insulin, some radicals say 5 grams... well, theyre both wrong.
I got curious about this when I discovered that my insulin dependant diabetic friend didnt even keep track of what she ate post injection. She would feel hypoglycemic after a shot and take a Glucose Tablet.
A glucose tablet is only 5 grams of glucose (carbs)! So I started to think, "Hmmm, mabye everyone is off point on this?"
After conducting a few experiments on myself, I found that you can go considerably lower in carbs than people previously believed.
Now it doesnt make sense to go low in carbs, because that defies the purpose of using the insulin in the first place, but it does free us from having to use so much that there might be some "spill over" in carbs that cant be utilized. So it really makes us able to have more freedom in carbs choices and amounts.
The "risk" in insulin use is not as risky as people believe. Any person with an ounce of sense can see the warning signs of a problem coming, and remedy the situation.

HOW DO I DO IT

If you look at the drug store, you can get these little pen cases that hold a loaded insulin syringe. They are great for our need, you load up the syringe, and put it in the case, and throw it in your bag/purse/whatever. After the workout, head to a bathroom stall and inject it under the skin! Pull up a little skin from the abdomen or upper thigh (anywhere will do, but these are easiest) and inject. Do not shoot into a muscle. This rushes the dose and makes it harder to predict when it will spike.
So now you have 15 minutes to get some carbs (actually you have longer, since the initial hit of the dose is mild and easy to cope with, the spike is a little more harsh, but still nothing unbearable. If you use the carbs, you probobly wont notice the initial dose OR the spike.)
(this is based on Humalog at 10 i.u.)
I use a powder with a 20% simple/80% complex ratio (actually its 17% mono, 5% di, 7% tri, 5%tetra, and 66% penta-saccharides). I use about 60grams of carbs to the 10 i.u. of insulin.
This gives me a nice solid stream of carbs to overcompensate my depleted muscles, but not so many that I risk fat accumulation from the excess.
Now you are good to go till around 1 hour after the initial injection. At this 1 hour mark, the majority of the dose hits your system. Now is the time to eat a good balanced (AND FAT FREE!) meal. The fat-free emphasis will be explained in the POTENTIAL PROBLEMS section. This balance meal of carbs and protien and little to know fat can be anything from a protien drink and a crab drink, to a low fat MRP, to some lean chicken and rice... your choice.
After this meal, you dont need to pay anymore consideration to the insulin, it will gradually decrease and will be out of your system at the 2 hour mark.
Till you get accustmed to the use of insulin, start low and slow. Start at 2 i.u. then 5 i.u. then 7 i.u. then 10 i.u. That way you get a better understanding of any hypoglycemia you may encounter. Ive went as high as 35 i.u., just to try it, but at a certain point a higher dosage doesnt yield any better results (except fat!)

POTENTIAL PROBLEMS

Insulin is relativly safe. If you dont take in any carbs after using it, your body will give you PLENNTY of warning! Youll feel dizzy, tired, achey... hypoglycemic. What is happening is your body has no glycogen to use as fuel. Your muscles re depleted from working out, and often times youve tapped your liver for any remaining glycogen. The insulin does, searching for glycogen to use, takes the rest from your liver, and in the absence of carbs coming in to make more, it heads for the brain.
Your brain uses glucose as its primary fuel source (a little fat, too.) Thats why you get dizzy and light headed, the same with during a ketogenic diet... low glucose equals light headedness.
So if you forget about the carbs, youll get a warning from yuor body, and you can get your ass in gear and get some carbs in you.
If you get to the point where youre nauseated, just drink some sugary beverage and get some carbs in you quickly. Youre still a long long way from any major danger, but dont mess around.
"Fat Free" I said earlier about the 1 hour mark meal. During the 2 hours of the dosage duration, you should avoid fat like it is the plauge! Insulins partitioning properties are as effective at sending fat to the fat stores as it is carbs and protien to muscles!
So till the dose is clear of your system, NO FAT! (Thats another reason why I advocate the fastest acting insulin you can get.)


Well, I cant think of anything else off hand that needs to be said, but if I missed anything, just ask. I may have taken somethng for granted and figured everyone would know or assume on their own...


SO WHY BOTHER

Well, the carbs you take in after the shot are immediatly sent to your muscles to make up for the depleted state your workout put them in. At this point you are able to actually fill them with MORE glycogen than they could hold before the workout. This adds up to extra macro nutrients in the system for repairing the micro fiber damage done to the muscles.
The protien you take in at the 1 hour meal (and you can take in post workout protien shake after the carbs, too) will be preferentially sent where it is needed the most. So you can get those muscles rebuilt faster, and more efficiantly!
Thats also the reasoning behind the pre-breakfast dos


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CasperCasper

Cool Novice

Posts: 26
From:My Mother
Registered: Nov 2000

posted January 24, 2001 02:22 PM

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so lets say you were at 10-13% bdf , would you or wouldn't you take it ?


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KINGKONG69

Pro Bodybuilder

Posts: 414
From:
Registered: Sep 2000

posted January 24, 2001 02:36 PM

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DOES A MANS BODYFAT REALLY MATTER, AS LONG AS HE DONT EAT ANY FAT WITHIN 2 HOURS OF THE INJECTION.


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The_Iron_Game

Freak

Posts: 1511
From:Great Britain
Registered: Oct 2000

posted January 24, 2001 02:40 PM

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Providing you were not excessively over weight and did not have tabove approximatel IMO 17.5% or above bf levels then it could ne of benefit. T3 should also be utilised when bf levels are a little over normal for bb's as well as those concerned with keeping fat levels down.

However this is just an opinion and I know for a fact there are members on this board who could provide you with a more detailed answer.


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CasperCasper

Cool Novice

Posts: 26
From:My Mother
Registered: Nov 2000

posted January 24, 2001 02:55 PM

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thanks for the info bro , i'm already hypoglycemic so i'm not touching it .


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rugbyplayer

Cool Novice

Posts: 43
From:
Registered: Jan 2001

posted January 24, 2001 04:51 PM

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I have 20cc of humalin r , If I took 10iu post w.o for a couple of weeks, what kind of gains should I get from it. Just wanting to find out if I believe the gains are going to be worth the risk.


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