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 I want a six pack. Please help.
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| Author | Topic: I want a six pack. Please help. | ||
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Cool Novice 
Posts: 23 |
O.k., I'm 5'10", 193 lbs, 29% (!) body fat. I got off a bulking cycle of Deca and Winny Depot about 5 weeks ago from which I gained about 25 lbs... about 10 lbs muscle and 15 fat. Now, I'm big, but fat as hell! I'm gonna take another 5 weeks off before my spring/summer cutting cycle, for which my goals are to get my bodyfat down to 10-13%, while maintaining as much muscle mass as possible. I plan on doing Winny Depot, Primo Depot, Clenbuterol, Triacana, and hCG (at the end), with some Novadex and Proviron thrown in if I start retaining water, for 8-10 weeks. I'm going to workout 4 mornings a week on an empty stomach and wait for an hour to eat (burn more fat), and do intense cardio twice a week for 30 minutes each time, also in the mornings on an empty stomach. I'm going to eat around 2000 cal/day, in a 40/40/20 ratio. If there is anyone out there who has attempted something similar, or has experience in the field, your input and advice would be greatly appreciated. Thanks in advance.     | ||
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Amateur Bodybuilder 
Posts: 277 |
Hey bro. Throw some ECA in there and you are going to be shreaded! Make sure that that "20" from the 40/40/20 is from flax seed oil or other dietary fat. Do the ECA and Clen like this: W1 ECA W2 ECA W3 CLEN W4 CLEN W5 ECA W6 ECA ... etc. 2 weeks on, 2 weeks off. Excellent diet and training plan. I sure hope you are planning on running a high primo dosage because that non eating phase is going to make you loose some serious muscle otherwise. I don't like the idea of not eating afterwards. You need to take in at least 30g of sugar after that workout to reload your glycogen stores. That will not store as fat. You also should take in some protein during the next 45 minutes following, perferably a protein shake or other liquid protein. You don't want to loose the muscle that you do have; otherwise, it's going to come back and haunt you. If you can afford it, I would also throw in some GH in that cycle. Lets look at your cycle stats. Post your specific cycle detais. -Stew | ||
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Amateur Bodybuilder
Posts: 277 |
And welcome to Elite Fitness bro! Make sure that you read the "newbie posts" so you'll be sure of the rules. You'll make friends a lot quicker. -Stew | ||
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Cool Novice
Posts: 23 |
Hey Stew, thanks for the helpful advice. I do have some ECA on hand, but I had used it a couple years ago, and I was somewhat disappointed with the results. Maybe the ECA pills I was taking (twice a day) were too low in their dosages... 300mg E, 80mg C, and it doesn't say how much A. What do you think? Have you gotten good results from ECA? Here's how my 10 week cycle looks as of yet: Primo-200 mg/week Winny-50 mg/2 days Clenbuterol-120 mcg/day Triacana-3.5 mg/day ...and Nolvadex & Proviron as needed, and hCG at the end. I wasn't really planning on pyramiding the dosages from week to week, nor was I going to fool around with complicated tapering techniques at the end. What do you think about this? You think that's too low a Primo dosage? I really don't want any water retention... on my last (relatively mild) Deca-Winny cycle, my face and cheeks got really puffy... it didn't look good. That's the reason I was planning on being a little more conservative with the dosages this time. Oh yeah, unfortunately, I definitely cannot afford GH. Thanks in advance for your help. ------------------ | ||
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Amateur Bodybuilder
Posts: 240 |
Throw in some hydroxycut ------------------ | ||
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Elite Bodybuilder 
Posts: 734 |
Your diet must have been for shit to gain all that fat while doing deca/winny. Lesson learned. ------------------ | ||
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Elite Bodybuilder
Posts: 925 |
head on down to your local liquor store. they lots of variety on 6 packs!  just fucking with you!!! cut your starches down, and none after 3 p.m. no breads or processed flours either! bump your protein up 2 gms per per lbs/bodyweight. that make up for the starches your not eating. eat lots of fibrous veggies to help digest all that protein!------------------ | ||
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Pro Bodybuilder 
Posts: 441 |
Cuts, that Primo dosage sounds a little low...try maybe 400/week. also, i wasnt clear about your winny, was that 50mg/every other day? also, not sure how you are set for gear, but going 50mg winny a day would help a lot as well. See if you can get hold of some Fina. | ||
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Cool Novice
Posts: 26 |
damn. 29%bf is prety high. bro. first , i think that 2 times /week cardio isn't enough. i don't know if you have any injury nor your age but i would bump that up to 4-5 times/wek. start out with 20 min minimum, then increase as you go along. how's your diet? on primo, you should cut back on your calorie intak and it's still ok. but remember to keep your protein intake as all time. eca definitely works but better yet, since your cutting cycle include A.S, throw in some t3 and see you in mr O. GOOD LUCK BRO. | ||
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Pro Bodybuilder
Posts: 376 |
Are you the medical student??? Anyway, it�s good to know that I�m not the onlyone who gains a lot of water and fat on a deca/winny cycle. There is something I learned on my deca/winny cycle. The fatter you start a cycle, the more water you�ll retain. So, even thought you�ll use non aromatizing steroids, I would loose some fat before the cycle. ------------------ | ||
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Novice 
Posts: 10 |
cuts I'd be including aerobic whatever(tred,stairs,bike 4-6x a week) even on the days you don't want to go just do 1/2 hour but don't miss (I've down the clen,t-3,winny blitz and the primo,winny,anavar in the past. If you step up the cardio bigtime that 29% bodyfat will be a distant memory.(you won't believe what you look like!!! BE STRICT | ||
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Cool Novice
Posts: 23 |
Yes, Cornellius, I am a medical student. However, most of the knowledge that I have about steroids is not from what they teach us at school, but rather from my own efforts in reading everything that I can get my hands on about AS. You're probably right about your observation that a higher initial body fat% leads to a greater degree of water retention than one would see if they were initially leaner... I think this is exactly what happened in my case. Thanks for the tip. ------------------ | ||
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Elite Bodybuilder
Posts: 1024 |
29% bf at 5'10" 193 doesn't sound right. You arn't all that heavy for your height so unless you have absolutely no lean body mass I would say that measurement is inacurate. You may be holding more water than you think. And another point...At 2000 calories a day your lean body mass is going to starve and deteriorate. You will loose a lot of muscle mass at such a low level of calories. I would get another measurement(or two) by a couple different people. Unless you are nothing but bones and fat I highly doublt you're at %29. | ||
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Amateur Bodybuilder
Posts: 189 |
I agree he is on a low calorie diet, but the winny and primo will help him hold on to the muscle he has. Keep your protein high, and your carbs and fats moderate. That will bring you the best results. As mentioned eat plenty of fiber rich veggies, which will help keep your blood sugar levels stable. I also would suggest to up your cardio to 4-5 times a week, in the mornings as you mentioned on an empty stomach. Throw in some type of ECA stack and maybe some clen as well, running the clen for two weeks then the ECA for two weeks and so on. Try to limit your carbs to none after 3-5pm besides the vegetables. Take this diet/cardio approach slowly, by gradually cutting things out of your diet day by day. Don't drastically go from one extreme to the other. Be patient and stay motivated, you didn't get to 29% bf or whatever bf you might be at overnight so you obviously won't get a 6-pack over night either. Good luck, keep us posted. | ||
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Pro Bodybuilder
Posts: 531 |
What AAS are you going to get rater retention from? I must be smoking crack because I thought you said that that cycle might give you water retention! ------------------ | ||
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Amateur Bodybuilder
Posts: 277 |
quote: Ephedrine needs to be 25mg, Caffeine at 200mg and take one asprin. I would also take in some yohimbe HCL, and Tyramine with that. Email me for more details. [email protected] quote: Take the winny 50/day. Up the primo to 400/week. And run the clen, ECA cycle as I specified before. quote: You will not need the nolv, and prov. with this cycle. Don't waste it. Don't pyramid the dosages. Start out with your highest amount. You need to get those receptors saturated right off. I would taper the last weeks of primo 400/300/200. I don't think you will need the HCG either. But if you are uncomfortable with this, hit the HCG on Mon.and Thursday starting the following Mon. after your last primo injection. Carry this for 2 weeks. I'd say about 1250iu/ inject. quote: Don't worry about water retention w/ primo. Just drink plenty of water, about a gallon per day would be great. Don't go conservative. You'll just waste your time and gear. quote: No prob. bro. These are just my opinions. Opinions vary. Your best bet is to get as many as possible. Oh, yea. And do more cardio. -Stew | ||
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Cool Novice
Posts: 23 |
Thanks Stew, I sent you an E-mail. Zeaky, I think I have a genetic predispostion for water retention, b/c like I said, I did a mild Deca-Winstrol Depot cyce a while ago, and my face looked like the Pillsbury Dough boy's. To the best of my knowledge, Primo Depot is very similar to Deca, albeit slightly weaker, so it would make logical sense to be wary of water retention for me on the Primo Depot-Winny Depot cycle. Everybody has a different metabolic make-up; just b/c 99 people wouldn't retain water on this cycle doesn't necessarily mean that that 100th person won't. I don't want that person to be me. Thanks for your feedback. ------------------ | ||
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Cool Novice
Posts: 23 |
Beezers, you might be right in thinking that that 29% BF is an overestimate. I took it on one of those Tanita scales... the ones with little electrodes on your feet. I'm not sure how accurate the numbers are from this device. ------------------ | ||
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Pro Bodybuilder
Posts: 441 |
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!!!! Bro you are actually listening to a fat measuring scale!!!!!! HAHA Those thing are often up to 14-15% off. You could read 29 and be anywhere from 11-50 haha | ||
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Pro Bodybuilder
Posts: 367 |
hey bro if your goal is only to cut and mantain mass(not gain) your dose of primo and winny is good. but please do not lift on empty stomach, you will not be able to have an intense workout and you will be in an extreamly catabolic state. So the little more fat you'd burn is not worth it. I suggest you do very low intesity cardio in the mornig, and you eat right afterwards. But do your cardio at least 5 times a week. Train in the late afternoon and maybe repeat have another cardio session after lifting. Whatch your carbs late in the day, and have some sugars after your workout. i hope this helps | ||
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Elite Bodybuilder
Posts: 843 |
Fener, excellent advice. That is EXACTLY what I am doing now, and it is working wonders. I'm doing an hour of cardio in the morning, six times per week. Also, lifting for an hour in the afternoon, watching the carb intake after 6:00 p.m., and following a low calorie diet. I haven't lost one ounce of strength, my weight has only gone down by only two pounds, yet I have lost a ton of fat so far. Try it! It will work very well! -TG | ||
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Elite Bodybuilder
Posts: 1024 |
Those Tanita scales are garbge. They are quite inaccurate. Skin calipers are probably your best bet, but even those are prone to error, and depending on the equipment and especually person doing it can as well be significantly inaccurate. If the person doing the skin fold is experienced than that is your best bet for an accurate reading. I would not trust that tanita scale what so ever though. ------------------ | ||
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Cool Novice
Posts: 23 |
Thanks Fener, Ghost, and Beezers for your recent input. Fener &/or Ghost, if I do cardio for 45 minutes in the morning, six days a week, and then workout in the afternoon 4 days a week, followed by another 15 minutes of cardio, and only injest 2000 cal/day, won't I be overtraining? I really don't want to lose muscle, I just want to get lean. Thanks. ------------------ | ||
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Amateur Bodybuilder
Posts: 180 |
Cuts, I think you may wrong in your comparison between Deca and Primo. Deca is a 19-nor based substance while Primo is direct derivative of DHT. You may be retaining some water off Deca because of its conversion to progesterone but with Primo water retention will be virtually nil because of its inability to convert to estrogen at most dosages. | ||
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Cool Novice
Posts: 23 |
Hey Ghost, you said that your cutting cycle is working well for you... you're maintaining/gaining muscle and losing fat at the same time. But you failed to mention if you're juicing during it. If you are, I'd be interested in knowing what compounds and in what dosages you are using. Thanks. ------------------ |
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posted January 14, 2001 04:58 AM
