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  This is how SUSTANON should be used!

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Author Topic:   This is how SUSTANON should be used!
dissto

Amateur Bodybuilder

Posts: 69
From:canada
Registered: Oct 2000

posted January 13, 2001 12:44 PM

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this is a great post from the dead rock's board. i am going to try this method in a few weeks and will post results.


The proper use of Sustanon in a cycle by Squatdemon

One of the most misunderstood ideals when it comes to Sustanon is how to properly use it in a cycle. There is no wrong way, but there is a best way to administer proper dosages so you can fully benefit from the esters in Sustanon. Sustanon was developed for the primary reason of hormone replacement, and because of the mix of esters most patients only needed one shot a month to keep their hormone levels balanced. Because of this design, the bodybuilder will not receive proper doseages at once or twice a week injections. Your blood levels will fluctuate up and down continuously, which is not what you want while on a cycle. You want stable levels to give your body the best chance it can have to build plenty of muscle. All test is the same, but only once the ester is removed. People that say test is test are wrong unless you are assuming that the ester has already been removed. I have had plenty of different results from the different tests I have used, as well as I am sure you have too. The secret to making sus work correctly, is timing the esters so the blood levels do not fluctuate.

I will assume that everyone knows how an ester works and why one is added to the parent testosterone. With sustanon, you have 4 esters: 30mg of prop 60mg of phenylprop 60mg of isocaproate 100mg of deconate Combined to give you 250mg. Now everyone knows for themselves how much test they should take due to previous cycles or no cycles at all. Let's take each ester and see how long they will stay active in the body.

30mg of prop--Prop needs to be injected at least every other day to get the full benefits of the test. I think every third day is a little too long to wait, although some people may disagree. Now let's say you are doing a prop only cycle and injecting 30mg twice a week. You can see already that is a waste of gear. If you inject 30mg of prop twice a week you are totally wasting your time. You will NOT grow off of this, so you can basically take sus and knock it down to 220mg an amp if you are injecting once or twice a week.

60 mg of phenylprop--Phenylprop is not that much different than prop. You can get away with injecting the phenylprop ester every third day. Anyone that has taken nandrolone with a phenylprop ester knows that it is shorter acting and must be injected twice a week (for example, *******'s powder). If injected twice a week, then let's even cushion the amount, you will have all 120 mg in one week.

To recap, so far this is what you get the first week---180 mg of test in your system. If you ask me that was a waste of two amps. That is barely enough to supress the axis, and that is about all you will have happen if you inject 180mg of test per week. Now let's look at the longer acting esters in sus.

60mg of Isocaproate--Isocaproate will give you a duration of about a week before it is let go. This is not bad, but at 60 mg you are still not getting enough test to make it worth the time.

100mg of Deconate--Here is the daddy of the four esters. This is the same ester that is used in Deca-Durabolin. The deconate ester should really average out at 2 weeks, but has been said to last up to 3. This ester was added at a 100mg dose to balance out the quicker acting esters used in sustanon.

If we review one more time, we can see roughly how much test we will have in our body per week when we use sus, and hopefully you can see it is very low. You can pretty much take out the prop and phenylprop until about week 3 or 4, because once the other esters release the test and it gets time to build up in the system, the prop and phenylprop is useless. Not until around week six are you going to get your test levels high enough to do any good, and if you are on a 10 week cycle and start tapering week 8, then your test have been only relatively high for about 2-3 weeks. Call me crazy, but that is not at all what I want in a cycle. Every test cycle should be started high to hit those receptors hard, and I don't even taper at the end (but that is a different story).

The numbers that BIGDAWG and I worked on basically show that your test levels will never at one time be stable for more that a couple of weeks. Why do you think that people say they have less bloat on sus and less sides. There is so little of the short acting test in your system at one time that it is impossible to get any bloat or side effects at all. So you ask, well what is the best way to take sus then? First, I would answer don't buy it. If you really want to use a 4 blend test then buy some of the old omna (not the new ones), they have more shorter acting tests in them and the blood levels will stay more equal. If you don't believe me, ask anyone that has used the old omna and they will tell you they got quite a bit of bloat from it. Reason being is the shorter acting esters in the omna build up your blood levels quicker, hence you have the bloat factor. If someone doesn't like my first answer, then I will give them a second, "inject the sus everyday or at the least every other day." I usually get the "wholly @#%$, that's crazy!!!" answer. I usually tell them back, no it's not crazy, it's science. The actual science of sus combined with a bodybuilder's needs equal injecting every day. People seem to forget about the esters and think they are injecting all of 1750mg each week and getting every mg of it. Trust me folks, I am not talking about injecting 7 amps a week for 10 weeks, I am suggesting injecting an amp a day for 3 weeks, and letting the esters do thier work after that. When you crunch the numbers, for the first two weeks you are really only getting the prop, phenylprop, and a little of the isocaproate. Maybe about 700-750 mg for the first two weeks, and for weeks after that when all of the isocaproate and deconate kick in you will stay aroung 600-800mg for weeks following the first couple. You have a perfect taper, if you are into that, and stable test levels. If you go to eod, it will vary a bit, but not enough to really make too much of a difference. Start off the cycle with 5 weeks of dbol while using the sus, and when you are done with the sustanon, then immediately start injecting two anabolics like eq and deca, or deca and primo/winny. This is a cycle that a lot of the pros are using called front end loading with an anabolic taper. I guinea pigged this idea when BIGDAWG and I were discussing it many months back, and damn it was a really good cycle. Not as good as 1000mg of aratest a week, but still a pretty good cycle. I have cycled sus/omna both ways, and trained relatively the same with the same kind of diet. The difference in the two cycles were like night and day, about a 15-17 pound difference, and two amps of omna a week was my first cycle too. You know, the one you are supposed to grow the most off of because of the virgin receptors. So test may be test, but you will not get the same results from every ester out there if you dont know how to time them. If you are thinking of a sus/omna cycle, give this a try. I promise you will not be disappointed, and you just may thank me and DAWG later......peace


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Francis Drake

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posted January 13, 2001 01:07 PM

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sounds good... i may try it too.


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'ORCHITIS'

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posted January 13, 2001 01:13 PM

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Sus ed for 3 weeks! Son of a......that's gonna leave a mark! heh heh heh Holy crap, I honestly can't imagine shooting sus ed for three straight weeks. That shit makes me sore for at least three or so days. I would feel like a walking punching bag, or like I was in that movie Fight Club. Anyways, after the third week of ed injections, how often & how much should you continue to shoot each week?

------------------
'Keep it Pumpin'


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Green

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posted January 13, 2001 01:17 PM

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Sust doesn't hurt me at all, thank god!! Interesting theory. My next cycle I was thinking of hitting them EOD. Later, Green

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I GET MAD!!!!


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ultragainz

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posted January 13, 2001 01:18 PM

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damn sounds great
AND THATS THE BOTTOM LINE!!!!!!
P.S.GAMEOVER!!!!!!!!


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2Thick

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posted January 13, 2001 01:21 PM

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If you would have read the whole post on the Rock's Board, this is not the way a newbie should use it.

This is only the way a more advanced cycler should use it.

BTW- Squatdemon agreed with me on this point.


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mokhtarsayed

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posted January 13, 2001 01:48 PM

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2thick. Could you post the beginners cycle you guys agreed upon, here? I think this would be a good reference post to be in the archives.


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Montecristo

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posted January 13, 2001 01:53 PM

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I got a 70ml arriving soon.
1ml = 285mg
Week 1-3 0.8ml per day
Week 4-5 1ml every 2nd day
Week 6-14 1ml twice a week

Sound OK?

------------------


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AZtallguy

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posted January 13, 2001 01:58 PM

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hey mokhtar,
just wanted too say hi. interesting post. I'm not doing enough sus for that kind of cycle but it's good to know if I ever do.

------------------
GLOVES ARE FOR THOSE TOO WEAK TO HOLD THE WEIGHT

In the Great words of Brad Knight "Lift it pussy!"


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2Thick

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posted January 13, 2001 02:00 PM

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Mokhtar,

Many will agree with me but here is a great first time test cycle.

Sust
250/week
250
250
250
250
250
250
250
250

This 9 week cycle will be more than enough to get great results (with great diet, training, and rest).


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Krusher

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posted January 13, 2001 02:16 PM

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I hope E2 doesn't see that one.


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NJstacked

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posted January 13, 2001 02:22 PM

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GREEN,,,,ARE YOU SURE YOU GOT REAL SUST.......OR ARE YOU JUST INJECTING IN OTHER BODY PARTS BESIDES THE MUSCLES? SUST HURTS LIKE A FUCKING BITCH THE NEXT FEW DAYS. MAYBE I AM JUST VERY SENSITIVE TO THE PROP, BUT ALL MY FRIENDS ALSO AGREE WITH ME THAT IT HURTS THE NEXT DAY!!!!!


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Krusher

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posted January 13, 2001 02:25 PM

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Dissto, I like your post, perhaps you can help me put together my next cycle, how does this look (all doses daily except primo is weekly):

wk..sust..a-50..fina..winny..primo
1....250......1.............50.........
2....250......1.............50.........
3....250......1.............50.........
4....................60.....50.....300
5....................60.....50.....300
6....................60.....50.....300
7....................60.....50.....300
8...........................50.....300


[This message has been edited by Krusher (edited January 13, 2001).]


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dissto

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posted January 13, 2001 02:32 PM

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i cant take credit for that theory. it was written by the great squatdemon. if you have a way of getting a hold of him, he knows a shit load about various strategies to get the most out of your cycle. you may be able to find him on goheavy.com.

peace


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brickhouse

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posted January 13, 2001 02:34 PM

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NJSTACKED I AGREE SUST HURTS LIKE HELL AND MAKES MY ASS FEEL AS BIG AS A WATERMELON


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benzo27

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posted January 13, 2001 02:50 PM

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I still take mine twice a week. My first was sust 500mg per week for 8.


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mokhtarsayed

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posted January 13, 2001 02:59 PM

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Thanks 2thick. There's so much controversy about the proper usage of sustanon, and test in general. But I tend to agree with the milder cycles for virgin receptors.

Hi AZtallguy. Hear from u soon.

------------------

_______________________
Mokhtar


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Green

Freak

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posted January 13, 2001 03:04 PM

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NJ I know my sust was legit because of my gains and they came from a very reliable source my friend has used for years. They were actually the Organon Duratest. I was adding in a CC of Korean test prop the last couple of weeks to help harden up a bit and no change. I just don't get injection pain at all. Shux! Later, Green

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I GET MAD!!!!


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BigJay81

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posted January 13, 2001 03:08 PM

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We all agreed with 2Thick on that point. This information has been around for about 2 years now. A bunch of us got into an argument about how to use the esters of sust and squatdemon and Big wrote this article. And from then on I have been posting it around and whenever i post it here it allways gets erased in a few hours.
So thanks for posting it. Its good info but do use it if your just starting out. It will do moe harm than good.
JAy


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got big?

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posted January 13, 2001 06:47 PM

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great post, i'd be interested to try it this way. Perhaps EOD the first time since I'm a test newbie...

anyone else try this?


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dissto

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posted January 13, 2001 06:58 PM

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bump for all sust users


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wHeLiXw

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posted January 13, 2001 07:04 PM

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Sus never hurts me on injection. I think it most pain during an injection is due to the fact you may hit a small nerve. Just my opinion.
wHeLiXw


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BigJay81

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posted January 13, 2001 07:26 PM

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Your not going to find him on go heavy.HEHEHEHEHAHAHAHAHHAHAHA


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ROIDRANGER

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posted January 13, 2001 07:36 PM

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that sounds very interesting to me...makes sense to ill have to try it sometime

------------------
power to gain from the ROIDRANGER.


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The_Iron_Game

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posted January 13, 2001 07:45 PM

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Alternatively you can mix sust with a faster acting ester (cypionate/enanthate) for the first 3 wks. That way you can get away without having to inject every day.

------------------


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Montecristo

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posted January 13, 2001 10:16 PM

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I think an amp a day for the first three weeks souds extreme...

------------------


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Krusher

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posted January 13, 2001 11:22 PM

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I'll be trying this method starting on Feb 1 so watch for my updates..I have a feeling that 1 amp of sust per day for 3 weeks will be killer..check out my 24 week cycle post for details.


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Anabolicum Mister

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posted January 14, 2001 02:09 AM

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Nice theory, but who says that constant blood levels equals the best gains? I disagree with this. The cycle that I am just finishing was a constant blood level cycle and I am not at all impressed with the results. All my gains were in the first three weeks. I'll try something different next time!


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gtaman

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posted January 14, 2001 12:20 PM

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To the poster who did 500 a week for 8 weeks for a first cycle, how well did this work?

For a newbie wouldn't a compromise work, say

500 wk 1
500 wk 2
250 wk 3
250
250
etc.

stacked with some deca and dbol?

Let me know what you think. This will be my second cycle.


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E

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posted January 14, 2001 12:31 PM

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gta I just started my 500mg of sust a week for 8 week cycle. I am also doing a little dbol with it. I will keep you posted

E


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landry

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posted January 14, 2001 12:52 PM

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2thick thanks for posting that, I was saying a week ago when someone cut and pasted squatdemons post for a newbie.
I just finished sust 250 every 3rd day for 10 weeks with 30 mgs d-bol/day the 1st 5 weeks and 350 mgs EQ/week starting week 5 thru 12. Gained 33 lbs with minimal water retention. Was my 1st cycle and I loved it. I agree with those who say you don't need to go nuts your 1st cycle but you also want to take advantage of your virgin receptors.


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JoeyDillinger

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posted January 14, 2001 08:48 PM

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BUMP

SO to get the best gains out of using Test
whats the best test to use and doses???????????


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browndog1

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posted January 14, 2001 09:12 PM

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Hey Landry,

That was me that posted SquatDemon's sust theories a couple weeks back, and in posting it, did not intend it for use by a "newbie."

I only posted it so bro's could grasp the science behind the release of sust's different esters.

...bd


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Eramthgin

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posted January 14, 2001 09:16 PM

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Isn't there a curve here?? If you heavly load the front end will not the deca build up so starting on week three there would be a huge volume of test hitting the system as the esters for test are cleaved off the deca molecule.

------------------
Don't put off to tomorrow what you can do today.

If you enjoy it today you can always do it again tomorrow.


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TEXASAMM

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posted January 14, 2001 09:27 PM

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Front end loading the sustenon is important.Depending on the dose you will use
inject 750mgs day 1 then 1cc eod.never taper down but switch to fasting acting esters when you are getting closer to the end of the cycle.This way you have control over when all the drugs are being eliminated from the system.

Steroids need to be tapered up not down.doing it this way your test level are contantly rising.steroids upregulate not downregulate.


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Holy souldier

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posted January 14, 2001 10:01 PM

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good post bro!


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ThePitbull

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posted January 14, 2001 10:20 PM

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Very interesting theory...............

------------------


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ryker77

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posted January 15, 2001 08:21 AM

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NO way as a newbe would I inject that much AS. I do have the same theory so Instead of adding more sust I am just going to take 50mgs of prop at the third day mark and then three days later 1ml of sust. That way I should get good results and maintain a high level of test. Just go to this site and put in 1ml of sust and 50mgs of prop at every six day.

http://www.come.to/roidcalc


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panerai

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posted January 15, 2001 08:34 AM

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2Thick,if it's a typo,you're crazy,man
You meant:
Sust
250mg/day - right? For 9 days? Is it short cycle? I don't understand.Or it's for females?


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Krusher

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posted January 15, 2001 09:36 AM

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Panerai..2thick's is cycle 250mg per week for 9 weeks.


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The Man Child

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posted January 15, 2001 11:22 AM

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So your suggesting this:

Days 1-21 one amp of Sustenon a day
Days 22-42 one amp of Sustenon EOD
Days 43-56 one amp of Sustenon Every 3rd day

??????? am I right on this????????

That seems incredibly extreme, I think I'll stick to a gram a week.


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ryker77

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posted January 15, 2001 11:37 AM

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So if the math is correct and sust is taken everyday at 250mgs for just 15 days here is what amount of test you'd have in your blood.
Seams a bit extreme for most people.

Sustanon is based on this for each amp:
testosterone isocaproate 60mg
testosterone decanoate 100mg
testosterone propionate 30 mg
testosterone phenylpropionate 60mg


Day Test amount
1 237
2 430
3 588
4 716
5 821
6 906
7 975
8 1031
9 1077
10 1114
11 1145
12 1170
13 1190
14 1206
15 1220


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powerlifter456

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posted January 15, 2001 11:53 AM

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every day it is


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