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 Anabolic Discussion Board
 For the Love of God READ THIS PLEASE!!
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| Author | Topic: For the Love of God READ THIS PLEASE!! | ||
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Cool Novice 
Posts: 30 |
K....here it is plain and simple. I know a fair amount about steroids, I know a LOT about hairloss. I want to get as BIG AS POSSIBLE!! WITHOUT comprimising my hair. This is the ultimate question and I hope someone can help me figure it out once and for all so I can get on with my life. Actually let me just put it into a scenerio for u because it would be easier. Here it is: Guy has male pattern baldness and worries about it like no other. He wants to put on as much mass as possible WITHOUT comprimising the chance of accelerating his hairloss. He stays away from test, even while taking propecia and other treatments.He is currently only taking deca, but figures that there has to be something he can add. All he wants to know is...what on the face of this earth he can take, stack, consume...to get BIG, that won't cause hairloss other than deca, that can be stacked with deca. Please bro's u gotta help me on this one because I need to put on some size and I miss my test but I KNOW there has to be someone in my same situation- even tho he loves to BB, his hair means more to him but he still needs to take SOMETHING. There has to be someone on this board that at some point has done so many cycles that he started freaken out about balding and has fine tuned his cycles to be easy on the hair. Anyone that can help me I really appreciate it, and thanks in advance. somehow I know I will get 1 reply to this post but I need some help guys. thanks l8s     | ||
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Cool Novice
Posts: 24 |
actually bro, from what I know Deca turns into DHT a helluva more than when taking test and other shit. There's also this shampoo I heard about, can't remember what it's called, but it's supposed to help with hairloss. Maybe someone else on the board can help you out on where to get it. Good Luck | ||
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Elite Bodybuilder 
Posts: 639 |
Nizoral shampoo. An otc item. ghans | ||
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Amateur Bodybuilder 
Posts: 70 |
Doh! Deca to avoid hairloss!? Buy some winstrol, primo, laurabolin, anavar or parabolan. And stop taking deca if you value hair more than mass. | ||
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Freak 
Posts: 1516 |
deca for less hair loss then test..get some test, every cycle needs test, take test/d-bol for mass, other juice mentioned int he thread are good too(like winny, etc).. big-guy | ||
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Cool Novice
Posts: 30 |
Damn...u guys are sayen that deca is bad for hair? Being that I know about hairloss, I know that DHT is converted from testosterone and nandralone is converted into dh-nandralone which is actually less androgenic than nandrolone so that is why you aren't supposed to use propecia with deca. So the bro who said that deca is converted to dht more than test, I have to disagree man. I actually got an email from a guy who said that he and people he knows have done multiple deca cycles and experienced no hairloss. He even said that some people reported hair thickining while on! He said that he had heard this indirectly from Will Brink which I don't know if it's true. I emailed Will and he finally shot me back and I accidentally deleted it. This guy also said that a while ago they were experimenting with deca for male birth control, and they were guessing that it would also stop hairloss by competing with dht. Again, this is just what he said. Have u guys had actual hairloss with deca or are u just goin by heresay? From what I remember, primo is a derivitive of dht and I've heard that its bad on hair. Laurabolin makes sense because it's similar to deca. Winny I also know is "hair friendly". Anyways, thanks for the help...can I get some more advice anyone? thanks peace | ||
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Cool Novice
Posts: 30 |
yeah I've been using Nizoral for a long time, it's a good shampoo. Again though guys..test is the second worst thing to use if u want to avoid hairloss next to straight dht or dht related roids like dianabol, because test is converted directly to dht which is what causes hairloss. Basically all the androgens contribute to hairloss hence the name "androgenic alopecia" but dht bonds to the receptor site the most followed 2nd by test, so I don't see how you guys are sayen test is better than deca which is a "weaker" androgen. please keep the help comin. gracias | ||
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Cool Novice
Posts: 21 |
It think Deca and Propecia are a bad combo. Propecia and a test only cycle is ok. Good to use topical aldactone. There was a good post a while back by TonyDelk on one of the other discussion boards - you might want to do a search on Anabolic Fitness (I think that's where I saw it). I will try to find it for you and repost. Here is what he said...but like I said go to Anabolic Fitness search 'hairloss' and read the entire thread.... SS Sup fellas. I guess you could consider me the resident expert on hair loss here. I don't want to get into a lengthy biochemical discussion as to why things work.(although I'm sure Bchem and AM would love to "go to work"...)but I have researched this topic extensively over the last 3 years. I would ask that many who are interested in hair loss info do some searches on the Elite board within the last year. There were some epic discussions as to what works and why. Also it really helps to go to minoxidil.com and understand why hair loss occurs. If you understand whether or not you have the MPB gene, you will be much further along in addressing your contextual situation. Now onto the nitty gritty. Contrary to what you've read Propecia makes hair loss worse with steroid users or more specifically for people who use other AAS other than Test.(if you only use Test, Propecia is great). Propecia works by inhibiting the enzyme A5R. This enzyme is responsible for converting Test to DHT(Dihydrotestosterone). The problem is that A5R inhibitors(Finasteride, and Azelaic Acid included)do not block the conversion process provided by other drugs other than Test. Primo, Dbol, EQ, Deca and others can actually exacerbate a hair loss condition when used in conjunction with A5R inhibitors. Don't ask me to explain. Ahaa...What is a person to do? Well a topical androgen receptor blocker is needed. One that does not need to work by inhibiting an enzymatic conversion process like A5R inhibitors. They need to have the following properties. it has to be a potent anti-androgen, it should selectively prevent or successfully compete with DHT without changing testosterone levels, it has to be effective topically so it can be conviently applied with potassium k channel openers(minoxidil) and it can't have any systemic side effects. There are two of them. Spironolactone is the weaker of the two but also the least expensive. It is sold by Dr. Lee and also used in a variety of shampoo salves/balms to block DHT conversion in the androgen receptor in the scalp.(Dr Proctor and Dr. Scruggs both sell their own versions) It has a few drawbacks. It smells like total shit, and it isn't very stable in solution form. Never combine Spiro in a bottle with Minoxidil unless you want to knock people out when getting within 15 feet. ;-) Flutamide is the better option but it is also very expensive. Known as Eulixin OTC in Mexico, 100 tabs at 250mgs per tab can be found for about 150 bucks down there. You need to crush up 10 tabs of Flutamide for every 60mls of Minoxidil. It is surely the strongest topical androgen blocker available. It is actually used as an oral prostate cancer medicine. The most recent research into hair loss regrowth avoids the k channel openers and hormonal manipulation. This new drug being studied is actually an immunosuppresant which works much better topically due to its low molecular weight. Tacrolimus(FK506) is this potential wonder drug. It was only recently approved and can be found at communitydrug.com It is very expensive as well. IMO, it is much better towards the end of a cycle after shedding or thinning has started. It has much potential to regrow the hair you lost and even to replace it with even more thickness than previously. Again, do your homework. Understand that if you are predisposed to the MPB gene, steroids will only exacerbate the problem and any remedy you use will only slow the inevidible process. For me the best approach has seemed to be Nizoral a couple of times per week while "on" combined with Spironolactone applied topically at night before bed. Since I don't use very harsh androgens, I rarely have the need for Flutamide. I have used Saw Palmetto in the formula supplied by Dr. Scruggs for the 4-5 weeks I was "on". It "seemed" to prevent any thinning as of yet. I just started my *** therapy two days ago, so I'll let you know how it goes. I have my doubts as to whether it is the lack of vet drugs from Mex(which i now believe to be filled with impurities and contaminants)than the Saw P in the little hair loss I have had since starting this low dose cycle of human grade only stuff. It has now been 9 days since my last injection. BTW.. my weight is up a full 10 pounds right now with only .7% bodyfat gain. I think this is even better due to my use of Arimidex. Good night. TD� Thanks TonyDelk! | ||
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Pro Bodybuilder 
Posts: 468 |
i posted this a while back and you may find it useful. note that only test can convert to dht - not deca. deca is easiest on the hair unless combined with finasterdide. most of this info comes from bill roberts, dan duchaine, and others on the meso site as well as other various site on the net including other boards. this is not my original information however i do not believe that a bibliography is necessary here. this is what i have been researching ALL DAY and have come up with: HAIR LOSS: Deca is easier on the hair than others, including natural testosterone, because it is converted in the scalp to a steroid weaker than Deca is. (DHN i believe)Nandrolone itself is a 5a -reductase inhibitor (although it yields DHN in the process). So less DHT is produced if nandrolone is present. Nandrolone will also inhibit natural production of testosterone, so there is less testosterone available to be converted to DHT. Testosterone is harder on the hair and skin than others because in the skin it is converted to a more potent steroid, DHT. With testosterone it is desirable to inhibit the 5AR enzymes so that less is converted to DHT. Azelaic acid seems to be the best thing to apply to the skin for this. Azelaic acid cream is available by prescription for treating acne, and, for the scalp, a preparation that also includes minoxidil is available from http://www.minoxidil.com. With any androgen, blocking the androgen receptors in the scalp or facial skin will help avoid male pattern baldness or acne, respectively. Spironolactone has the disadvantage of yielding a bit of a wet-dog odor on metabolism or decomposition as it yields thioacetic acid, but it seems to be the best thing currently available. The only commercially available AAS for human use which converts to DHT is testosterone. All others have modifications to the structure which make it absolutely impossible for them to be converted to DHT per se (dihydrotestosterone). The testosterone user has high levels of DHT in the scalp, and therefore a lot of androgen in the scalp. The nandrolone user has low levels of DHT, instead having DHN, which is less potent. Furthermore, DHT probably has hair loss activities not mediated by the androgen receptor, but by other proteins in the scalp and via the immune system. DHN may not have these activities. More importantly, what is observed is that nandrolone is quite good for keeping one's hair, whereas testosterone is not, for those genetically predestined to lose their hair. The price one pays for this, though, is that nandrolone is not as effective an anabolic as testosterone. Primobolan and Winstrol act differently from DHT in that, unlike DHT, they are not converted to androstanediol. They are comparable in effect on the hair to anabolically-equivalent doses of any other synthetic except nandrolone. If you stick to the 19-nortestosterone compounds (like Deca, Parabolin, Durabolin, Laurabolin, ect.....) you will avoid the DHT-induced hair loss that is seen with compounds that convert to DHT (eg. the testosterones). The Nandrolones (nortestosterone derivatives) are chemically unable to convert to DHT. a person, who simply wishes to have an attractive physique and appearance by conventional standards, and highly values the condition of his skin and hair, would be poorly served by the advice to use Sustanon or Dianabol at any dose. The likely worsening of his skin and possible acceleration of hair loss would not be worth it. He would be better served with a milder drug, which would allow him to achieve his goals with minimal cosmetic or health risk. Some have found that Proscar acts to minimize effects of testosterone use on skin and hair. The objection that reduced conversion to DHT might reduce muscular growth may have some validity. This might be true either because of loss of DHT activity on nervous tissue, or because of possible loss of non-AR-mediated effects of androstanediol, a DHT metabolite, or an indirect effect not occurring in muscle tissue itself. DHT itself is not an effective anabolic for muscle tissue. If one chooses to use Proscar to minimize risk of hair loss, I would suggest topical use to the scalp, or if used orally, certainly not in excess of the recommended dose for medically-indicated use. If you are on testosterone, anti-DHT Proscar � can reduce the side effects of this hormone a little. As DHT contributes to testicular atrophy, Proscar while on steroids can be of some use. Do not expect too much though. You can start with one pill (5 mg) a day for 3 to 5 days, then you can take one every third day. winstrol is not a precursor of DHT, but is itself a potent agonist of the AR in skin and scalp. Deca. Or with other steroids (actually, even with Deca for that matter) you could use topical spironolactone (available from http://www.minoxidil.com/). Among its other properties as an anti-androgen, spironolactone is a potent competitive inhibitor of DHT at its receptor sites[21]. Therefore, spironolactone effectively prevents DHT from attaching to the receptor sites on the hair follicles[22]. As a result, the follicles no longer atrophy and can mature again to their normal size. And it does so without decreasing the circulating levels of DHT in the body. By comparison, finasteride inhibits the formation of DHT, causing troublesome side effects in many patients. perhaps the most effective hair growth drug currently available is called XANDROX 12.5%. It is a lotion that contains 12.5% micronized minoxidil and 5% azelaic acid. Its base is water-soluble and absorbs into the skin. It also contains an effective transdermal absorption enhancer. Because the concentration of minoxidil is so high in this new lotion, it is suggested that no more than one mL of it be applied daily. It is formulated to be used as a supplement to the Xandrox 5% solutions, which were made available seven months ago from Regrowth. XANDROX 12.5% is designed to fill the void and treat those stubborn areas of the scalp, which may not be responding adequately to other therapies. These areas often include the temples, frontal hairline or, in some cases, the vertex and crown. Because minoxidil is dose dependent, XANDROX 12.5% is specifically beneficial in these areas. The results of combining the hair growth properties of minoxidil with the ability of azelaic acid to inhibit virtually all dihydrotestosterone (DHT) in the scalp have proven to be extremely effective in halting and reversing MPB for the vast majority of patients. Nighttime and daytime Xandrox 5% solutions are available with and without 0.025% retinoic acid, respectively. Xandrox 12.5% lotion incorporates an absorption enhancer and does not contain Retin-A or betamethasone valerate. 30-mL bottles cost $27.86 and are fitted with a pump dispenser. | ||
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Amateur Bodybuilder
Posts: 105 |
My kudos to msg. My knowledge of 5 alpha-reductase enzymes & AGA is kids' stuff compared to what msg has delved in, especially the DHT conversion of different steroids. | ||
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Amateur Bodybuilder
Posts: 142 |
I had no idea that men were so concerned with there hair. Why don't you get those transplant thingies? I just shave mine. Problem solved. Use test aplenty! | ||
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Moderator 
Posts: 5807 |
some good info in this thread but some bad stuff as well. Deca and finasteride is a no no, the dihydronandrolone will take the dihydrotestosterone molecules place in the hair follicle and will cause just as much hair loss as dht would. Do not take primo, winny, dbol, anadrol, test. ------------------ | ||
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Cool Novice
Posts: 34 |
I suggest you shave your head, it is very comfortable and makes you look bigger. You wont have to worry about much at all. just imagine the freedom... | ||
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Cool Novice
Posts: 28 |
Hey I have to say that I get the WORSE hair loss from Deca than anything else. I mean way worse too. I also read someone saying that over at T-mag in the S-files one time. It might be okay for some people but I won't touch it.............. | ||
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Guru
Posts: 5119 |
For me personally,Test,when combined with Proscar(finasteride)works terrific.I experience very little,to no hair loss at all.Without the Proscar,I'm waving bye-bye to large tufts.... | ||
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Amateur Bodybuilder
Posts: 172 |
Gentlemen, now I thought that someone with MPB such as myself would be better off using a test cycle for the reason that hairloss can be haulted by using finasteride. With 19-nor based drugs, isn't hairloss drastically less predictable? E2, (based on your list of AS to avoid), would Equipoise be a good AS to use as a first cycle to obtain 15lbs. of LBM, as hairloss is also the first and foremost concern for me as well? (I was thinking about using Sust. with finasteride this summer- would this be more hazardous for the hair than opposed to Eq.?) | ||
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Cool Novice
Posts: 11 |
You could shave your crown. Then take what you want and not worry about it. A lot of chicks dig the smooth top.  | ||
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Amateur Bodybuilder
Posts: 172 |
bump | ||
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Amateur Bodybuilder
Posts: 194 |
DIE BIG DIE BALD!!! | ||
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Cool Novice
Posts: 30 |
[QUOTE]Originally posted by msg: [B] HAIR LOSS: Deca is easier on the hair than others, including natural testosterone, because it is converted in the scalp to a steroid weaker than Deca is. (DHN i believe)Nandrolone itself is a 5a -reductase inhibitor (although it yields DHN in the process). So less DHT is produced if nandrolone is present. Nandrolone will also inhibit natural production of testosterone, so there is less testosterone available to be converted to DHT. Testosterone is harder on the hair and skin than others because in the skin it is converted to a more potent steroid, DHT.
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Cool Novice
Posts: 30 |
[QUOTE]Originally posted by msg: [B] HAIR LOSS: Deca is easier on the hair than others, including natural testosterone, because it is converted in the scalp to a steroid weaker than Deca is. (DHN i believe)Nandrolone itself is a 5a -reductase inhibitor (although it yields DHN in the process). So less DHT is produced if nandrolone is present. Nandrolone will also inhibit natural production of testosterone, so there is less testosterone available to be converted to DHT. Testosterone is harder on the hair and skin than others because in the skin it is converted to a more potent steroid, DHT.
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posted January 11, 2001 04:15 AM
