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  how much protein can your body digest at once?

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Author Topic:   how much protein can your body digest at once?
showtime2000

Amateur Bodybuilder

Posts: 213
From:the armpit of florida
Registered: Nov 2000

posted January 10, 2001 08:48 PM

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for a 175lb person?

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showtime2000

Amateur Bodybuilder

Posts: 213
From:the armpit of florida
Registered: Nov 2000

posted January 10, 2001 09:11 PM

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i know i know. it belongs on the diet board but give me a break.


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ArnoldWannaBe

Amateur Bodybuilder

Posts: 96
From:KC, MO U.S.A.
Registered: Jan 2000

posted January 10, 2001 09:19 PM

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A college football trainer/strength coach at a Big Ten college said that about 40 grams per serving was the maximum that could be absorbed. Others on the board have said that figure could be much higher depending on what you eat, who eats it, blah blah blah.

So no one really knows. Just keep eating.


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PUMPUP

Amateur Bodybuilder

Posts: 59
From:CHESAPEAKE VA.
Registered: May 2000

posted January 10, 2001 09:25 PM

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Most of my meals will be aleast 50grams & some times as high as 90grams i weigh 195 you can tell if you are taking in to much your farts will run you out of the room


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JUICESEEKER

Elite Bodybuilder

Posts: 740
From:
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posted January 10, 2001 09:50 PM

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I HAVE ALSO WANTED TO KNOW MYSELF. I AM SURE THERE IS A FEW KNOWLEGEBLE BROS ON THE BOARD THAT CAN TELL US FOR SURE. SO I WILL BUMP THIS FOR YA!


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Stew Meat

Amateur Bodybuilder

Posts: 240
From:Louisiana
Registered: Jul 2000

posted January 10, 2001 11:05 PM

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It depends on the protein source and what it is eaten along with.

Other foods can inhibit the absorbtion of protein. If you eat protein within a meal, you have fat, carbs, and protein being absorbed through the small intestinal linning. Once these foods reach the large intestine, absorbtion of macromolecules ceases. The foods that are eaten along with the protein will be the ultimate factor determining how much of the protein that is in that food will pass through the intestinal linning before it hits the colon (large intestine). Liquid proteins would be absorbed faster because they require less digestion before they can pass through the small pores in the intestinal walls.

Solid foods must pass through many feet of the intestine while undergoing digestion the whole way until they are finally digested enough to pass through.

Picture a piece of cheese sliding down a cheese grader. The block of cheese is too big to pass through the cheese grader's pores. As the cheese block passes along, it is digested by the sharp edges until eventually only a very small block of cheese is left. That small block of cheese is protein that didn't get absorbed.
The small intestine is virtually a long cheese grader. The intestines push the food along as digestive fluids and autonomic muscular contraction breaks down the large food particles into smaller and smaller particles until they are small enough to pass through the intestinal pores and enter the blood stream. The food that is left and isn't digested enough to enter the intestinal pores = that block of cheese at the end of the long grader.

Now picture pouring milk down that cheese grader. That is the equalivalent of partially digested protein. The more digested the proteins, you can imagine the thinner the liquid that is pored down the cheese grader. It doesn't have to go a long distance down the cheese grader (intestine) before its particles are small enough to pass through the intestinal pores (the grader's holes). Since its absorbtion begins as soon as it enters the intestine, you will find an extremely small lump of cheese (or lump of waste) at the end of it.
Protein in liquid form doesn't need to be broken down as much as much as a solid food. So you will find almost no solid food at the end of the tunnel (the large intestine). Amino acids would be absorbed extremely fast and would need virtually no digestion. They simply enter the intestine and pass into the blood stream. Partially digested proteins (peptides) have an absorbtion rate that lies in between that of amino acids and the protein.

Keep in mind, unless you have plenty of money to waste, buying amino acids for a protein supplement aren't economically efficient. You are paying a lab to do what you body is going to do anyway to an extent.

The digestability rating of a protein basically tells how hard the body will have to work to separate the proteins during digestion and the ease of down grading them into amino acids so they may pass through the intestinal lining.

-Stew


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Montecristo

Amateur Bodybuilder

Posts: 150
From:Montreal, Canada
Registered: Dec 2000

posted January 10, 2001 11:09 PM

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Common practise is 40g. There are certain enzymes that will aid in digestion and may perhaps double that. I have seen some more expensive proteins claim to have extra enzymes that help you digest up to 60g per server, after trying it I would say you could go even higher than that with those proteing. I believe the name brand was 'Ultimate 36', great stuff, absolutaly loved it but it was 2x the price of the normal stuff... Just eat 30g every hour while juicing!!!

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jersey boy

Elite Bodybuilder

Posts: 951
From:-
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posted January 10, 2001 11:15 PM

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here we go again.

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get big or get out


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Hardcore4Evr

Elite Bodybuilder

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From:
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posted January 10, 2001 11:32 PM

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StewMeat...what a great reply! I myself, feel that every persons body is different, so one person may be able to digest 40g and one may be able to digest 90g. I usually keep it in the 50-70 range.

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"Milk is for babies.......real men drink beer."
-Arnold Schwarznegger, Pumping Iron


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showtime2000

Amateur Bodybuilder

Posts: 213
From:the armpit of florida
Registered: Nov 2000

posted January 10, 2001 11:43 PM

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great post stew. thanks alot guys


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KODIAK99

Guru

Posts: 2187
From:New York, NY USA
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posted January 10, 2001 11:45 PM

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2 questions. . .doesn't it depend on the person, size, age, activity, digestion seems to be an individual thing???
and doesn't the use of AS increase the bodies ability to absorb and use protien?????

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If you are going to be a bear. . .be a big fucking bear!!!!!


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BigJay81

Guru

Posts: 4477
From:LIFT UNTIL YOU DIE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Registered: Jan 2000

posted January 10, 2001 11:48 PM

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WELL I THINK KNOW ONE KNOWS AND THEY WON'T "EVERY ONE IS DIFF"
JAy

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Until You Die!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


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ANVIL222

Amateur Bodybuilder

Posts: 262
From:PRINCE EDWARD ISLAND, CANADA
Registered: Jul 2000

posted January 11, 2001 12:06 AM

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MOST WEIGHT TRAINERS USE 50 GRAMS AS A BENCHMARK.
TRY TO CONSUME 50 TO 60 GRAMS PER MEAL AND YOU WILL HAVE NO PROBLEM MEETING YOUR DAILY REQUIREMENTS FOR MUSCLE GROWTH.
GO WITH 1.5 TO 2 GRAMS PER LB OF BODYWEIGHT.
IE.(200 LB BODYBUILDER SHOULD CONSUME 300-400 GRAMS OF PROTIEN.
NOW LET'S SAY HE WILL EAT 6 MEALS BASED ON 300 GRAMS FOR THE DAY. EACH MEAL WOULD HAVE TO BE 50 GRAMS.

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CHECK IT OUT
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[URL=http://www.electronicsrx.vstorestuff.com]


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Charles Ray

Cool Novice

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From:East Coast
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posted January 11, 2001 12:19 AM

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Absorbtion definitley depends on a lot of things. I was talking to this lady in my gym who was doing some research to get her Dr. (I forgot what her Ph. D was in exactly but I do remember it had to do w/ the exercise and the body). Anyhow she was asking people to take surveys for her to see how many diff types supplements they took. So we began talking about supplements and I asked her if the protein you take after a workout really benefits you and she said that the studies she's seen show very little benefit from protein shakes. She said it's just not possible to digest all of that protein. So I asked her if taking steroids would aid in the absorbtion and she said yes. She said it was basically one of the only ways to absorb large amounts of protein and benefit from it. To tell you the truth I've noticed that when I'm off AS and I take protein shakes that it goes right through me but when I'm on AS I don't see a difference even though I'm taking extra of that protein.

[This message has been edited by Charles Ray (edited January 11, 2001).]


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Stew Meat

Amateur Bodybuilder

Posts: 240
From:Louisiana
Registered: Jul 2000

posted January 11, 2001 01:43 AM

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Notice that I didn't say exactly how much protein you could absorb/digest/... at one time. This is because everyone is different. Intestinal contractions can be faster in some and move food along toward the colon at accelerated rates allowing less time for absorbtion. People would also differ in the number of enzymes present in their gut to help break the protien down.

I know that the intestinal pores can actually be widened by some chemicals. This adds super absorbtion of protein but it also allows bacteria an easier portal of entry into the bloodstream. Reasearch has been conducted on the effects of temperarily dialating the pores to allow extra absorbtion but the risks (of infection) out weighed the poteintial benefits.
On these grounds I would have to say that anabolic steroids can not have any factor on the absorbtion of protein. I may be wrong on that but I really don't think so. They only aid in nitrogen retention meaning more of those proteins that are absorbed will be put to good use.

As far as how much protein should be consumed per meal and how much can be consumed:
Lets say I weigh 200lbs.
1)Not on AS= 1-1.5g per day should be sufficient. This IS backed by reasearch:
A study was done by Dr. Lemon et al. where athletes were given specific amounts of protein per bodyweight per day. The bodyweights varied. The goal of the study was to produce a min. amount of protein that is needed to fight catabolism. The study proved that those athletes who consumed less than .7g of protein per pound of bodyweight did not loose muscle mass (exact details of this experiment can be provided to you if you want). That .7g/lb must be reached to avoid catabolism of EXISTING muscle. Therefore one must consume at least 1-1.5g/lb/day (depending on individual metabolisms) in order to see any benefit of added muscle.
No one knows how much protein one's body is capable of assimilating into protein. That area is still under reasearch. But you can be sure that you are playing a totally different ballgame if you are on gear.
I would suggest that one consume 1.5-3g/lb/day at least to take advantage of the anabolic environment. The reason I say this is because hormones tell the body to make muscle. They tell the body to heal and they tell it to make that muscle stronger than it was. The way I see it, if you are injecting twice the normal amount of these anabolic hormones, your body may utalize twice the amount of protein. If you are injecting 6x the amount... I believe that the normal test level in the body is about 200mg (again, this may not be exact). If this is the case, 400mg injections may allow twice the protein utilization. This is just my hypothesis. If correct, you could handle more protein with higher doses of gear. There in itself may lie the key to the effects of higher doses of anabolics. You may not be utilizing the all the protein in your diet on lower doses.

Here's some research I'd like to do if I were a biological reasearch scientist (stay with me on this):
If you gave 10 individuals 600g of protein and 200mg of test, how much protein would they utalize (found by measuring nitrogen content in urine).
If you gave the same 10 individuals 200g of protein and 600g of test, would they utalize more...
If you gave the 10 600g of protein and 1000g of test would they utalize more than the latter...
Ok, what if you gave this 10 600g of protein and 1500mg of test and these individuals had no more protein utalization than those that got 1000mg of test?
* If you then gave the 10 individuals 800g of protein and 1500mg of test and they did indeed show greater protein utilization than they did with 600, this would prove that protein utalization is a direct function of the amount of test that you inject.

In other words, those injecting 500mg of Sust. maybe could benefit from 3g/lb while those of 250mg of Sust. may not see more benefit.
If this trend was analyized, we could have a set amount of protein intake per mg of AS per bodyweight per person per day. It would not be that difficult. But hey, who wants to help us out...

Here's the way I see the amount of protein required per meal. If not on AS 1.5g/lb of a 200lb person would be 300g. At 6 meals per day, that would be 50g/meal.
If one of the group of 10 was on 1000mg of test and reaped benefits of 3g/lb of protein, that would be 600g per day or 100g per meal.
If that person weighed 300lbs, that would be 900g of protein per lb at 3g/lb or 150g of protein in one meal. Now, if this person was seeing greater benefits from 3g/lb than he was from 2.88g/lb, this would prove that the amount of protein consumed at one time was irrelevant. On the contrary, it would prove that the speed of absorbtion was the key in determining how many grams of protein could be consumed per meal, thus a solid food meal containing 100g of protein would take too long for all the protein contained therein to be absorbed through the intestional pores whereas a liquid protein such as a shake which would not need such an extent of digestion before it could be absorbed, would more redially pass through the intestional pores and absorbtion of 100g would be no problem. However, enzymatic activity would definately play a key role in the uptake of the protein.

-Stew

[This message has been edited by Stew Meat (edited January 11, 2001).]


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sbaset

Pro Bodybuilder

Posts: 318
From:WA, USA
Registered: Nov 2000

posted January 11, 2001 02:42 AM

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great reply Stew!

You are a very knowledgable bro when it comes to protein.

As a rule of thumb, I shoot for 50g of a protein per meal or drink. I think that is a good benchmark for people to use.


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lizzy

Amateur Bodybuilder

Posts: 181
From:-
Registered: Oct 2000

posted January 11, 2001 08:37 AM

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I have heard that your body can use 25g at a time. I don't know what the effect of steroids or different forms of protein is on this digestability rate.

btw, 1-1.5g of protein per lb of bodyweight while not on steroids, as a permanent diet strategy, is a recipe for ill health in the long-term.

This is all I will say about protein as anyone who criticises it on this web-site comes under an immense amount of abuse and pressure to censor their opinions. Many opinions which don't conform are not welcome.

p.s. no one bother to flame and abuse me for saying something bad about protein as I am entitled to my opinion.


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Stew Meat

Amateur Bodybuilder

Posts: 240
From:Louisiana
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posted January 11, 2001 01:44 PM

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Izzy, I know you are looking for a flame on that one, but in fact, you are absolutely right! A diet this high in protein can wreak havoc on your body. There has been lots of research to prove this (I would be happy to give refrences to the research if needed). It all started back in the 80's when some bodybuilder broke his collar bone while benchpressing. Broken bones from muscular contractions have been common in individuals that have elevated strength. It was very common arm wrestling matches for someone to get a broken elbow.
A study was done to find out why this happens. That bodybuilder with the broken collar bone was given an MRI. When they looked at the density of his bones, they found that he had the bone mass of a 70-80 year old woman! It was soon realized that high protein diets would cause bone disease.

Heres an explanation:
Have you ever heard the commercial for TUMS w/ calcium? Well TUMS works due to the buffering action of calcium carbonate on stomach acids.
The body also uses calcium carbonate as a buffer. Whenever the acidity of the blood increases, calcium carbonate is released. The storage site for calcium -the bones. In the same way that muscle is sacrificed for energy, bones are sacrificed for their calcium to buffer the acidity of the blood. Bone catabolism. This is especially prevalent with aging women leading to osteoperosis.
When ever protein is used to build muscle, enzymes, immune support, etc., the amino ACIDS cause the reaction of increased blood acidity. The more protein that the body utilizes, the higher the acidity of the blood and the more calcium must be used to buffer.
This is not a minute and isolated event. In fact, reasearch has proven that milk contains so much protein that its calcium content is not sufficient to offset the resulting blood acidity, thus the bones will still have to give up some calcium. Milk does not build strong bones! This effect is also due to the fact that calcium from milk has a low bioavailability.

Refrences:
Koop.E., The Surgeon General's Report. Wash.Pub. No. 88-50210. 1988
McDougall, J, M.D., Diet for a New America 1992
Kaplan S, M.D. Diet for a New America, Chapter 4, 1991
Erasmus, U. Ibid.
Barnard, N. M.D., Physicians Committee for Responsible Medicine, Conference 1995.
Should Humans Drink Milk? Physicians Committee for Responsible Medicine, Guide to Healthy Eating, Nov.-Dec. 1990, pp10
Alan Lamm, "Kinesiology," Homeopath, Physicians Committee for Responsible Medicine.

Ok, I'm sick of writing refrences. If you want more email me. For all of them. The key is, make sure that you take a calcium supplement with additional protein consumption. Those on AS should definately take a calcium supplement to prevent catabilism of the bones.

The nitrogen that is released from the amino acids also posses a problem. Amonia's chemical formula is NH2. Water is H20. When you take the N from amino acids and combine it with H2 from water, you get amonia. This amonia can destroy your kidneys. That's why it is imperitive that you drink at least one gallon of water per day if you are on AS.

So yes, Izzy, you are right. High protein can definately have ill effects on the body. But these effects can be minimised or eliminated. I haven't researched this subject in a long time so there may be some new info out there. I should have mentioned these things before. It's sometimes easy to forget that not everyone knows these things.

-Stew


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browndog1

Amateur Bodybuilder

Posts: 239
From:
Registered: Apr 2000

posted January 11, 2001 02:14 PM

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Stew- you are smart.

...bd


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Loophole Genetics

Amateur Bodybuilder

Posts: 284
From:USA
Registered: Aug 2000

posted January 11, 2001 03:30 PM

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I LIKE ALOT OF JUICE AND ALOT OF PROTEIN!!!!


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Stew Meat

Amateur Bodybuilder

Posts: 240
From:Louisiana
Registered: Jul 2000

posted January 11, 2001 08:28 PM

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bump


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thesuperstar

Pro Bodybuilder

Posts: 320
From:FLORIDA
Registered: Jan 2000

posted January 11, 2001 09:47 PM

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eat and drink a lot protein until you cant stand the farts... then do it again.

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http://thesuperstar.pathbot.com


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WanTtoBeDeisel

Amateur Bodybuilder

Posts: 147
From:ny
Registered: Sep 2000

posted January 11, 2001 10:46 PM

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hey did you guys ever here of papya enzymes, i knwo they help break down food, i wonder if they help with the absorbtion of protein as well?


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