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 Anabolic Discussion Board
 SHORT CYCLE......please I need Critisism
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| Author | Topic: SHORT CYCLE......please I need Critisism | ||
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Pro Bodybuilder 
Posts: 333 |
Days 1-13: Test suspension @100mg Everyday Day 14: 2 tabs of Clomid Days 15-21: 1 tab of Clomid Everyday Do I need the arimidex? Is this even a good idea for a short cycle? Let me have it....    | ||
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Pro Bodybuilder
Posts: 333 |
not letting this slip. | ||
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Amateur Bodybuilder 
Posts: 257 |
No, I do not feel it is good. I would use EQ and Propinate in a 13 day cycle with lots of Dbol before that. Unless you know how you handle suspension, trust me. Check out my webpage. --==MeanOne==-- ------------------ Owner of "The Anabolic Clinic" UPDATED: 01/02/01  | ||
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Elite Bodybuilder 
Posts: 1015 |
700mg of suspension is like a gram of esterfied test. Thats a lot. I like the this: 150mg t-100 with 1.5 cc's of ultragan MWF. | ||
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Amateur Bodybuilder
Posts: 257 |
Lawnsaver, if he was doing the typical long cycle, that would be very sound advice. HOWEVER, long cycles and short cycles are completely different in nature. The idea of a short cycle is too make the most gains you can as quickly as possible, and keep all of them. To gain the most, you must use the proper levels of drugs. Example - my next short cycle (just the anabolics): Day 1 - 2600mgs of enanthate 100mgs of suspension/day, 100mgs of Dbol/day, 150mgs of fina EOD, 300 mgs of EQ EOD, 100mgs of propinate EOD. Cycle length 13 days - expected LBM gain 10+ lbs. and keeping most if not all of it. | ||
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Amateur Bodybuilder
Posts: 74 |
how can you guys use long acting tests for a short cycle, it does not make sense.you are supposed to have everything in and out of your body within two weeks, so you must use short acting drugs.for ex. test prop, test suspension, dballs, fina, winny and so on.the guy that started the post was on the right track, but i would add winny at 50-100mg a day for no more than 14 days total, then use clomid.then take a break for 3 weeks and do another | ||
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Amateur Bodybuilder
Posts: 184 |
yeah if your using anything like enthanate or cyp or sust, use it only on day one. the half life of enth is like 4 days so if you loaded up with 800mg on day1, by day 14 there would be something like 75mg left in ya, not too much to cause a difference. doing it on day5 would just make there be even more floating around after day 14; and on short cycles you of course want to keep it at 2week, theres lots of proof that that is the way to go, look up a post by huckfinn on short cycles for his in depth analysis per se.... | ||
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Amateur Bodybuilder
Posts: 66 |
I dont feel t-prop is appropriate for 2 weekers let alone test enanthate. For one, the dose needed to make the 2 weekers effective is well over 1g/week. If you did 1g/enanthate on day 1, after 14 days you would still have around 125mg present on day 14. This is un-acceptable. This completely defeats the purpose of the 2 week cycle concept. Likewise, eq is also an un-appropriate choice. This leaves TA, dbol, anadrol, halo, winny (oral)...... A cycle with test suspension will work but you need to up the dose to at least 1500mg/week, with your last injection on day 12. Remember, you need to be OFF all exergeneous androgens on day 15; not just 'coming off.' Finally, I feel gaining 10lbs of lean body mass is an un-realistic goal. This amount of weight can be gained in 2 weeks but it will be mostly superficial water weight. 2-3 lbs of solid mass is a more realistic goal for 2 week cycles. Andy | ||
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Elite Bodybuilder
Posts: 1118 |
May get flamed for this but I do nt believe in the short cycle theory. For what reason if you dont mind me asking, are you doing it? To prevent natural shut down of test? ------------------ | ||
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Amateur Bodybuilder
Posts: 257 |
Guys, your saying this on old, outdated, unproven theories... First of all, Enanthtae peaks in 5 days time, after 5 days the free floating levels begin to RAPIDLY fall off. One study has shown that it was not even present by the 9th day after administration. "A study of half lengths of common testosterone esters" Dr. Samuel D. Stein, 1994. Medical Economics listing number 459e-57. This study, using blood tests showed, that free floating test levels spiked on day five, and were back to normal ranges by day 9. Propinate spiked 21 hours after injecting and were practically none-existant by the end of the second day. If you are still having trouble swallowing that, please, by all means, take a gander at my webpage, under the "Experiements and Results" section. I call 42lbs of LBM kept over 8 months time VERY effective! This is not weight gained, then lost, then gained and emasured at peak of cycle. This was 3 weeks after the last 2 week cycle. Other clients have had similar success, it's not just an isolated case. Eq unacceptable? By what means sir? Please enlighten me. (And I have a study to counter argue whatever you may say.) Short cycles aren't for everyone IRON, some guys like being on for a long time. I do, but over time I feel short cycling proves to be more effective. --==MeanOne==-- ------------------ Owner of "The Anabolic Clinic" UPDATED: 01/02/01 | ||
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Amateur Bodybuilder
Posts: 73 |
Man Child, Unlike most whose feedback you have been getting, I like your cycle. A few thoughts: 1. Do you need the Arimidex? Definitely! A mere 50 mg Clomid eod is not enough to combat 100 mg/d Test Susp. In fact, I would bump the Arimidex up to twice the dosage you suggest, at least (an additional 3.25 tablets won't kill your wallet.) 2. Speaking of Clomid, I don't think that you are planning to take enough. I would go with 600 mg on day 14 (no need to take eod on days 1-13; the Arimidex will suffice,) followed by 100 mg/day on days 15-28. 3. It couldn't hurt to add another AAS. After all, more miligrams are better than fewer! ;-) D-bol, Winny, Oxandrolone... take your pick. Actually, my choice would probably be Fina (Why not? You are going to do daily injections anyway, right?) If that is the way you go, just make sure the last TA injection is on day 10 or 11, and it will be okay. Good luck. | ||
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Elite Bodybuilder
Posts: 1057 |
Sorry guys - EQ is not a good choice in a short cycle due to long half-life. Choose from Test Susp, Prop, Fina, Winny or a front load of Enan. on Day 1. | ||
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Amateur Bodybuilder
Posts: 257 |
DOH! Eq's long half life? Why do you think it's injected EOD or Every Third Day? I don't think people do it because they like putting holes in themselves 3 or 4 times a week. Eq's half life is approximately 42 hours. Will someone out of the group of anti-eq advocates please list a documented resource which details and proves your piont of view. -MO | ||
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Pro Bodybuilder
Posts: 452 |
i dont like short cycles | ||
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Amateur Bodybuilder
Posts: 61 |
People inject eq so often because, unless it is ultragan or the new tokkyo, it is usually dosed in 50mg/ml. | ||
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Amateur Bodybuilder
Posts: 73 |
Yes, Stan is exactly right -- Eq is typically frequently injected simply to get the total mg/week to a reasonable level. It is bolderone UNDECYLENATE, and as such should have a somewhat longer half-life than Deca. What on Earth would lead you to conclude that it is only 42 hours!?? | ||
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Elite Bodybuilder
Posts: 708 |
MeanOne, Windec is correct...you better re-check your references. Eq is a very long-lasting ester. Ester length is directly proportional to release period. | ||
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Pro Bodybuilder
Posts: 465 |
I think you're right on with your short cycle Mean One but tone it down a little...you're living up to your handle. ------------------ [This message has been edited by DocJ (edited January 07, 2001).] | ||
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Elite Bodybuilder
Posts: 1118 |
He is MeanOne, checked it out as well sometime back. Most profile sites talk about frequent injections because back in the days eq was only commonly available in 50mgs/ml solution. If someone wished for 400-500mgs they would have to inject up to 10cc's for eq alone which could be a pain in the ass, literally, so they split the dose up and shot every 2-3 days. ------------------ | ||
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Amateur Bodybuilder
Posts: 257 |
Well, I won't sit here and aregue with you (not sure it can ALMOST be a form of an ester), I will just provide you with this- "Study of Anabolic Drugs and their half lives" Dr. Thomas J. Rutheford, 1993. Medical Economics Listing number 2843-w2. This study proves much of the common beleifs about EQ and it's anabolic counterparts are wrong. Most people feel that Nor. Dec. will stay in your system *actively* for up to 4-5 weeks. However, this has proven that the more realistic time is 12-15 days! The same can be said for Testosterone Deconate found in Sustanon, or any other drug with a deconate ester. EQ was stated to be found in appreciable levels in blood tests for only 10 days, and levels even close to the injected dosage for no longer than 50 hours, the average being 42 hours. Now then, there is great mis beleif about drugs and their *active* lives in the system. You will commonly hear people say that Enanthate has a half life of 10 days. This has been proven wrong time and again. Yet you will hear people argue about this for days! For this reason I asked for docmumented proof, in the form of a clinical study or otherwise, that proved the pionts. You have your opinions, I have my opinions, so we can differ and that's what a discussion board is for. The difference of opinion in an attempt to obtain the greatest level of understanding about a topic. I, however, have a study to stand behind. So in a gentlemanly way, ask for some form of evidence that is passible in the medical or scientific community. --==MeanOne==-- ------------------ Owner of "The Anabolic Clinic" UPDATED: 01/02/01 | ||
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Amateur Bodybuilder
Posts: 73 |
MeanOne, Thanks for the journal reference! I will try to find a copy of the study; it should make for very interesting reading. In the meantime, I will keep an open mind! | ||
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Amateur Bodybuilder
Posts: 281 |
WHO IS THIS MEANONE???? AND WHERE DOES HE COME FROM????? | ||
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Amateur Bodybuilder
Posts: 257 |
I came from a medical school library...hello Olympian, I don't beleive I've run into you before. Greetings- | ||
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Elite Bodybuilder
Posts: 1195 |
That is a hell-a-lotta drugs in your short cycle Meanone. I counted that out to close to 10grams of AAS in a 2 week period. I use only about 2grams in 2 weeks and get decent results. Gain 5-7lbs of LBM. Did you start low and build up from there? Don't you think you could still gain about 10lbs of LBM with half those drugs dosages? ------------------ | ||
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Amateur Bodybuilder
Posts: 257 |
Trust me, I know Drexx. I have a goal however. Right now, I'm 6'0, 243lbs at 6% bodyfat, come July I need to be 260lbs at 3% bodyfat. I'm just doing what I have to to ensure acheiving my goal.  -MeanOne- | ||
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Elite Bodybuilder
Posts: 1195 |
So Meanone, you have to gain about 23lbs of LBM and lose 3% bodyfat. Sounds like fun! Is this for a bet or just a personal goal. I assume you are competing. What level are you competing on? National? Good Luck! ------------------ | ||
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Amateur Bodybuilder
Posts: 257 |
No, not competeing...lol. I would have to be down a lot lower than 3% bodyfat if I was though. Besides, I have several NPC clients whom if I wwas competeing against, I wouldn't want to give the upper hand to. It's just something I want to do, no other reason. |
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posted January 06, 2001 10:47 PM