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 Animal Protein VS Vege Protein
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| Author | Topic: Animal Protein VS Vege Protein | ||
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Pro Bodybuilder 
Posts: 412 |
i know this is for the other board but its as slow as fuck there, so anyway, i was talking to the someone at the gym today and he was saying about the importance of having enough protein to grow (as we all know) when he mentioned how only animal protein grows muscle mass and vege protein should not be counted when trying for 2 grams of protein/ kg of body weight on a mass diet, i thought all proteins counted eg. bread,potato's etc....is this true?     | ||
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Elite Bodybuilder 
Posts: 931 |
Only proteins with a complete amino acid profile are counted(for our purposes anyway). These are called compete proteins. That means they contain all the amino acids, both essential(must be consumed through food) and non-essential(body can produce these). All amino acids must be present to carry out anabolism. Animal source proteins are all complete proteins. Veggie proteins, with the exeption of soy, are incomplete proteins. You don't just have to consume animal protein however. You can mix various vegatable source proteins to create a complete protein. Beans/rice as an example. The only problem with this is that it would not be very dense with protein. You would have to eat a lot of beans and rice or penut butter and whole grain bread to get enough protein to match that of the content of animal source proteins. The amino acid profiles in animal proteins are also set up so that they are more conducive and efficient in repairing and building muscles. Basicaly, the body is better able to use them for growth of the muscles. ------------------ | ||
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Pro Bodybuilder
Posts: 434 |
Also, animal proteins are higher in BCAA. | ||
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Pro Bodybuilder
Posts: 412 |
thanks guys, this is a very important piece of info i was uninformed on. | ||
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Amateur Bodybuilder 
Posts: 200 |
In my humble opinion, and speaking from A- Successwith my clients, and B-my certification as a nutritional advisor I will express a couple of opinions. First, animal based protiens do are not absorbed any better than veggie protiens. In fact, just the oppossite it true. The roughage in mot veggie's helps clean the intestines allowing for more protien to be assimulated. Now then, with that in mind, you stated that it might be because it is closer in structure to human muscle tissue. This is a gross misunderstanding. The body does NOT take in complete protiens and simply turn them into muscle. All protiens are broken down into their amino acids, then the amino acids are rearranged into a form as to become muscle fiber. So - if you were getting 30grams of protien from an animal source, and 30grams of protien from a veggie source, you would probably use more of the veggie "Protiens" or thier amino acids. HOWEVER, what is true is that you do not all amino acids present. The body can not just skip an amino acid in a chain. For this reason, you will either need to consume proper levels of meat, or if you are a veggie freak as I call them, then suppliment your bodys with large scales of complete protiens. There is one major birdge that you are not addressing for growth that I feel fits in here. Protiens require 150% of the caloric value per gram just to be broken down. This means for ever 4 calories of protien you injest, you will need 6 calories to actually use it. The far best source for this is found in veggie fat. Aminal fat will clog the intestines to an extent, and as well, are mostly saturated, making them much harder for the body to break down and use. One of the first corrections I have my clients make to their nutritional programs is the addition of MCT oils, nut meats, and peanut butter. Some of the bigger gentlemen will consume 2-3 jars of peanut butter a day. Just add 2-3 tablespoons into each protein shake, 1 tablespoon of MCT oil, and you will be set. I also personally add ice cream for flavor, texture, and added calories (hella fast metabolism). If you need any further help, please feel free to email me at the address below. --==MeanOne==-- ------------------ Owner of "The Anabolic Clinic" UPDATED: 01/02/01 | ||
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Pro Bodybuilder
Posts: 304 |
if you want to build muscle, then eat animal protein, like someone already said, it contains all the essential aa. building muscle with soy? please!! | ||
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Elite Bodybuilder
Posts: 934 |
Meanone are you trying to say that if someone was to come out with a protein that identically matched the make up (amino acid) of human muscle tissue, vege protein would still be absorbed better? You raise a good point Meanone but as it stands there is a protein that exists now with the exact make up of human muscle tissue. The product I mention works damned well. In fact I know one hospital who is using it for people who suffer from diseases that cause muscle loss. Yes as I mentioned above vege proteins do have their place but consume 200 grams + / day of vege protein, ha ha, dont make me laugh. It is correct to say that for as much protein to be absorbed as possible then you need to have a complete protein form. It is of course far better to have tuna, and chicken in one mean than tune one and chicken the next. [This message has been edited by The_Iron_Game (edited January 03, 2001).] [This message has been edited by The_Iron_Game (edited January 04, 2001).] | ||
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Freak 
Posts: 1667 |
Iron are you saying a guy can't get big or keep muscle mass over an extended period on a vegetarian diet because he won't get all the right amino acids from vege-protein? That's crazy I get big and I am a vegetarian. Bill Pearl is a vegetarian. Here are 2 pics of him at age FIFTY SIX, I would say he has held on to his mass quiet nicely on a vegetarian diet for FIFTEEN YEARS. ------------------ [This message has been edited by ulter (edited January 04, 2001).] | ||
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Elite Bodybuilder
Posts: 934 |
No Ulter, you have misunderstood my argument. I am saying that if you wish to get big, the most efficient way would be to come up with a product that has the exact amino acid profile as human muscle tissue. There are very few products that have this but the closer to the full profile the better. I did not say anywhere in my post that you cannot get big on a vegetarian diet. What I am saying is it will take longer, unless you can come up with a vegetable protein that has the same amino acid profile as human tissue. In general, you have far larger choices to mix food to get the full profile than you do with vegetables. Just to clarify, I am not talking about tuna and eggs being in the vege side of food but purely plant form. Agreed? ------------------ | ||
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Freak
Posts: 1667 |
Your body doesn't care where the aminos come from. If you take soy and a mixture of available vege proteins and put them in a shake there is nothing short of cannibalism that will allow you to have a closer profile of aminos to human muscle tissue. You don't need animal protein to grow faster or bigger. I do not agree with that. ------------------ | ||
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Elite Bodybuilder
Posts: 934 |
Hey Ulter, before I begin to argue the facts of this, I was just wondering if you are saying that protein from plant sources is better than from animal sources or is equal to animal protein? ------------------ | ||
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Freak
Posts: 1667 |
= 2 ------------------ | ||
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Elite Bodybuilder
Posts: 934 |
Muscles are made up of 22 amino acids. These amino acids vary in their importance. For example L-Glutamine (Glutamic Acid) is more important than any other. What I mean is that if we got a human muscle and chopped it into the individual amino acids, there would be more L-Glutamine than any other. The primary sequence of the amino acid profile of human muscle tissue was discovered more than 3 decades ago. Here, to keep it simple, is the top 10: 1) Glutamine 6) Phenyithrosine What would be the point of consuming large amounts of Phenyithrosine when not adequate amounts of glutamine has been added? The Phenyithrosine will not convert to glutamine and can only be used to repair or replace the alrady destroyed amino acid. The function of a good protein source therefore is to supply the muscles with the correct ratios of these amino acids and in the correct order. Whey is a great protein but far from perfect. It supplies all the amino acids needed but in an incorrect order. I strongly believe that by trying to reach the correct amino acid profile that human muscle tissue is made up of then you are making it more easy for your body to absorb the protein. Im sure you know that just because you consume 50 grams of protein doesnt mean all protein is abosrbed by muscles, other organs of the body and so on. Is this much agreed? I believe that it is better to mix the 2 protein sources than to have just one. The bottom line is you can reach the exact profile of human muscle tissue or get very close to it with animal proteins blended together. I also add some Soy in there for its different absorbtion rate. However how many plant sources can you think of that have such a make up? Just out of curiosity, what foods do you eat in order to get adequate amounts of protein down? ------------------ | ||
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Amateur Bodybuilder
Posts: 86 |
Barney, you have come up against one of the great prejudices of our society - the prejudice against plant based protein. Your body only cares about amino acids, not where they came from. Soy is just as bioavailable as meat. The most bioavailable protein known is not actually animal based, it is quinoa - a plant. Also every plant-based thing you eat will contribute to your protein intake because (whether you like it or not) the various amino acids in these plant foods will combine to form complete proteins. This is why even vegans have difficulty getting their protein intake below 10% because of this combination effect. You don't need to eat a protein which most closely matches the profile of human muscle at all. In fact a body responds a lot better and it is much healthier to give it raw ingredients (rather than finished products which can often overload it) and allow it to utilise these raw ingredients as it needs them. Your body knows what to do. Another thing - the required amounts of protein needed are WAY over stated. So even if you didn't eat balanced proteins your body would only need a fraction of what you take in so there would be plenty of lee-way for your body. You have confronted one of the great prejudices of body-builder nutrition and believe me you will be exposed to the pro-animal, anti-plant attitude constantly. It never dies. As long as people associate meat with muscle, plant based proteins will always be sneered at. I am allergic to all but soy protein. I am a vegetarian and I have had not trouble growing nor have I grown at a slower rate than non-vegetarians. I gave up arguing against this pro-meat prejudice with my fellow gym bunnies a long time ago as it is a hopeless battle. The type of nutritional beliefs you learn from guys at gyms is about as useful as learning to spell from graffiti on the back of toilet doors. I recommend you invest in a good book on nutrition. Happy eating! | ||
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Guru 
Posts: 2105 |
Brothers I don't know the science behind it just the practice. . .I know plenty of body builders and power lifters including me. . .As a rule I basically eat 1 whole chicken, 1 steak and a pound of turkey every day. . .along with 3-4 protien drinks (whey). . .if I was to take out all my meat sources of protien I doubt I could replicate my size and strength with soy or rice and beans. . .as for the peanut butter idea. . .I have to laugh. Lets take a quick look at the world if you will there's the real proof. Cultures dependant on primarily vegetarian diets, and soley fish for that matter, often tend to be quite skinny, live long, without heart disease, but do not have the massive and obesity we see in many western highly beef dependant societies. . .after thinking it through, which one really works. . .you a can argue your science all day a night, but before you settle on your own brilliant hypothesis look at the world. . .eat meat get big. . .eat vegetables and get lean. On that note I'll finish my burger. ------------------ | ||
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Freak
Posts: 1667 |
I am not vegan (I was one year) so I get some animal protein from dairy products but the bulk of my protein, like most, comes out of a container in powder form. Vege-protein from Twin labs is what I buy. ------------------ | ||
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Guru
Posts: 5015 |
LOL @ Kodiak...Point well made...Great discussion fellas... | ||
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Elite Bodybuilder
Posts: 934 |
LMAO @ Kodiak ------------------ | ||
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Amateur Bodybuilder
Posts: 200 |
LoL at Kod. That was funny bro. Just one question about your theory. If you consumed a similar animo acid profile, and the same number of calories in your diet, but without the heavy meats, are you to say that you would not grow the same? Just curious? As a powerlifter, you should know the value of peanut butter, but I suppose I could be wrong if not. Natural Bodybuilder Mike 'O Hearn has spoken of the great benefit he has gotten from adding puneat butter in his diet to a large extent. Simple put, to use the protien you eat, you need additional calories gotten from other sources than protien. Unsaturated veggie fats lead themselves to use better, and are healthier. Just my humble opinions. --==MeanOne==-- ------------------ Owner of "The Anabolic Clinic" UPDATED: 01/02/01 | ||
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Amateur Bodybuilder
Posts: 86 |
Because I am a vegetarian I both bulk up and get lean on a vegetarian diet. Its my calorie intake which determines the outcome. Likewise you can bulk UP on a vege diet and also slim DOWN on a meat diet. Its all about calories injested vs calories expended. Happy growing (or slimming) :> p.s. the latest protein powders are derived from wheat not whey because the wheat derived powder provides a more effective protein. | ||
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Amateur Bodybuilder
Posts: 86 |
Final thoughts: The fact that there are so few vegetarian body builders has less to do with the effectiveness of plant based diets and more to do with the body-building environment. A few years back before I had done heaps of research on nutrition I had been convinced by person after person that I was condemned to slower or even non-existent muscle growth because I was a vegetarian. If it wasn't for the fact that I am allergic to many animal based proteins (I can only eat soy, whey makes me really ill) then I would have quickly gone onto a meat eating diet. There are so few vegetarian body builders not just because vegetarians are a small minority in society in the first place but because they get scared away from vegetarianism early in their body building careers. btw, apart from soy you can eat quinoa (the most bioavailable protein source known) and you can combine lentils and brown rice to produce a complete protein. "Lentils and rice?!" I hear people scream. Yes, despite the fact that psychologically few people will accept the fact that this as a source of protein just as good as meat, your body will not be affected by such prejudice :> p.s. plant protein sources won't turn your body acid like animal proteins do so you'd probably feel better and be healthier too which is always a bonus for muscle growth. | ||
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Pro Bodybuilder
Posts: 398 |
MEAT, PEROID... | ||
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Amateur Bodybuilder
Posts: 200 |
Lizzy, you are very accurate in the information you posted. All protiens are broken down into amino acids (as stated before), and your body dosen't know if it from a peace of cow or a combination of veggie's. -MO | ||
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Guru
Posts: 2105 |
MeanOne I don't argue the benefit of foods like peanut butter, I enjoy it as much as the next guy. . .P&J sandwiches are still king in my book. . .I am not trying to match wit with you guys in this subject or fight it out. . .this is more opinion and an empirical observation in my mind that without the meat I eat I would not be nearly as big or strong as I am, I cannot speak for anyone else. . .simply to say that most people I know that are vegetarians are much leaner and perhaps healthier, but certainly not as strong or thick as their carnivorous cousins. . .personally if I ate a jar of peanut butter / day, no one would go near me, my gas is bad enough already. . .Take it easy bro's and my advice is eat beef, chicken, lamb, veal, turkey, fish, and wash it all down with a side of vegetalbles and a solid whey protien drink...good luck on your lifting. ------------------ [This message has been edited by KODIAK99 (edited January 03, 2001).] | ||
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Cool Novice 
Posts: 16 |
Soy protein: Well, it's a protein. That's about as far as my compliments go for this skinny amateur. It can't match the effects of whey or casein in terms of protein breakdown and synthesis.(10) Not only that, but it's been shown to actually lower T4 levels.(11) Here comes the worst part: Soy has been shown to have an inverse relationship with Testosterone levels!(12) Well, at least soy is "healthy" right? Nope. It was actually shown to increase lipoprotein levels in normal men.(13) Plus, it was shown to decrease HDL levels!(4) I can't think of any good reason to even touch soy protein. That is, unless you're a woman going through menopause. Then, it's okay. quoted from Testosterone.net ------------------ | ||
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Elite Bodybuilder
Posts: 1041 |
Just a few points without taking a side on the plant vs. animal debate: Legumes and grains together do form "complete" proteins, but the amount of carbs you would be ingesting in relation to the protein would probably be too high for many people. Bill Pearl became a vegetarian AFTER ending his competitive BB'ing career. This is from his book Getting Stronger (prety good book). He also discussed his steroid use in this book (although IMO he downplayed it a bit). Soy proteins, as stated above, contain high levels of phytoestrogens. Andreas Cahling used to swear by peanut butter as an added source of "good fat" calories. My opinion: you can certainly grow on a modified vegetarian diet, but you should be supplementing with a high quality protein (casein and/or whey). Vegan diets are a no-no for BBers. | ||
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Elite Bodybuilder
Posts: 619 |
I have wondered if protein from human meat is the ultimate protein source. The exact amino acid profile. Something to think about. ghans | ||
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Novice 
Posts: 3 |
Nice discussion!! Why are the biggest animals on earth not carnivors, then?? | ||
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Amateur Bodybuilder
Posts: 86 |
barney, you are going to get every excuse under the sun about why animal protein is better than plant protein. You'll get cited all sorts of studies "proving" this. The only thing you will discover consistently is that these "exposes" proving the inferiority of vege protein always wither under the scrutiny of fact. It is only in the last 200 years that humans have been prosperous enough to grow grains and feed them to animals. For the rest of our evolution consumption of animal protein was only sporadic. Plant sources always have been (and still are for most of the world's people) the basis of our protein intake. Our bodies have evolved on the consumption of vege proteins. This probably goes some way towards explaining the never ending health benefits of plant based foods and the negative side-effects of any more than minimal intakes of animal products. As for soy containing phytoestrogens that is very true. But why is it that this is constantly cited as being bad? Phytoestrogens are good, especially for body builders. They bind to the estrogen receptors preventing the vastly stronger steroid-caused estrogens from doing so. Soy is one of the best anti-estrogens you can add to a steroid cycle. Phytoestrogens are seen as being a significant weapon against estrogens in our modern environment as they inhibit the stronger estrogens from wreaking havoc. Soy is considered a powerful tool to prevent breat cancer for instance. But as I said in an earlier post Barney the prejudice against plant protein is way too engrained in popular BB thinking for it ever to be overcome. However, each to their own. At the end of the day I think people should always go with what they feel comfortable with and if you feel that plant proteins aren't going to be effective for you then go with animal protein. | ||
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Amateur Bodybuilder
Posts: 86 |
My grandmother has always told me to avoid peanuts because she says they do dreadful things to your bowels. Would cashew nuts be as effective as peanuts for body building or is there something specific about peanuts that makes them the choice over other nuts? | ||
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Elite Bodybuilder
Posts: 934 |
Ok Lizzy, you seen to know your facts pretty well. One question, how many current O contenders are vegetarian? Seriously though, are you telling us that if they were to substitute animal protein for vege protein they would still be the same size. Yes, No? As we know it is not always the studies that are correct but also real life experience and the general consensus is that animal protein is better off for bulking up and putting on mass. As I mentioned above, I am not syaing you cant get big of vege protein but it will not be as efficently absorbed as animal protein. How many vege proteins do you need to even come close to complete amino acid profile of a human. There was another good point made about soy which I havent taken into account. The best protein is wheat protein? Im sorry I disagree, combine wheat, soy, whey concentrate together. That is the best protein. ------------------ | ||
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Pro Bodybuilder
Posts: 412 |
I dont think the fact that how many pro bodybuilders are vegetarians has anything to do with how effective animal proteins are, that is simply a proportional figure of society...how many non bodybuilders are vege's, not many. Well i am still unsure on what the answer ais to my question but i love my meat and will continue to eat large sums of it, however i will not be cutting back on any of my vegetable protein as it seems everyone agrees that it does have value. thanks to everyone who responded, the answer was not as simple as i thought. | ||
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Novice
Posts: 1 |
I'm not by any means a Nutritionist. I would like to shed a little common sense (at least in my view) on the matter. BTW, I'm NOT a vegetarian, I do eat a lot of meat simply because I like it and it's a good source of protein. I think a lot of people follow the old adage that is definitely true "You are what you eat� however what we need to remember that "Meat" is actually just molecules arranged in a particular fashion. It's easy to think "Muscle = Meat therefore you must eat Meat since you are what you eat and I want to be Muscle." However, What do cows eat? GRASS!! And somehow they don't have much problem packing on several hundred pounds. Do Elephants eat meat? Not to my limited knowledge. They have a few tons of muscle. So remember that just because "You are what you eat" don't think you have to use whole parts for building blocks. Just like to build a building you don't have to tear down another one and use pieces of it. You just need the same raw materials. Peace out Bros, Rob | ||
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Freak
Posts: 1667 |
THE TRUTH Yes It's true Bill Pearl did become a vegetarian after he competed. But those pics are fifteen years AFTER his last title. So what's your point. Mine was that he was able to keep his mass despite aging and he was able to do it as a vegetarian. May we all look that good at 56. ------------------ | ||
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Elite Bodybuilder
Posts: 1041 |
Ulter: Agreed--Pearl was and is awesome (one of my all-time favorites). My point was that it's easier to maintain the mass once having built it than to build it in the first place. Cahling is perhaps a better example, as he was, I believe, a vegetarian while competing (won Mr. International, now known as the Arnold Classic). I would never say one couldn't succeed as a vegetarian BB'er; one would have to be much more precise in calculating macronutrient intake, however. As for cows and elephants being herbivores, remember their physiology can't really be compared to that of human beings. While I only count my animal protein intake, I get a fair amount of protein from plant sources. I like meat too much to give it up, though. I applaud those who are disciplined and focused enough to bodybuild as vegetarians--you have a lot more discipline than I do. | ||
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Pro Bodybuilder
Posts: 349 |
I dont think meat is necessary at all in building mass. In fact best proteins are from eggs. I will become vegeterian one day, because i think killing animals when you have no need to do it is bad.I'm sure it is not possible to build a great phisyque on a vegan diet, but if your diet includes lots of eggs, milk, cheese and whey drinks you see that there is no reason to consume meat or fish. | ||
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Amateur Bodybuilder
Posts: 95 |
okay.. i think everybody has agreed that when your body gets protein, it has to break it down in order to use the amino acids... so then what difference does it make what form it comes in? it is going to get broken down anyway. The difference is animal protein is complete,(has the full spectrum of amino acids) and vegetable protein doesn't. (with the exception of soy protein)But if you consume the right incomplete proteins, you can end up with the same amino acids as you would get from animal protein. for example... what if protein from plant A only has amino acids 1-14, and then protein from plant B has amino acids 9-22. When your body gets the 2 vegetable proteins, it breaks them both down and has all 22 amino acids it needs, and then uses them how it needs to. Where as with animal protein, each protein you get contains all 22 amino acids that your body needs. The amino acids will come in different amounts depending on where the protein came from, but as long as you get all 22 aminos that your body needs, your body will use them the same. It doesn't know where the aminos came from. So then, if what MeanOne said about burning 150% more calories to break protein down then the protein provides you, is correct, then that would explain why it would be harder to put on weight with vegetable protein than with animal protein. If a gram of protein is 4 calories, and it takes 6 to break it down then you are spending more energy to use the protein than you are getting from it. So, if you have to break down 2 vegetable proteins to get the 22 aminos, you are spending 12 calories and gaining 8 from the proteins. Where as if you eat the one animal protein to get the 22 aminos, you are getting 4 calories and spending 6. You spend 2 more calories to get the 22 aminos from vegetable proteins than you do to get them from animal proteins. I do not claim to be a nutritionist or anything, but i have taken a couple of nutrition classes, and this is what makes sense to me from all the information i have heard both on this thread and in my classes. I am just trying to simplify this whole thing.. if i am wrong please correct me. | ||
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Amateur Bodybuilder
Posts: 60 |
ive put 60 pounds on in 3 years on a vegetarian diet. i do consume eggs and whey | ||
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Elite Bodybuilder
Posts: 1021 |
i'll keep my answer short. balance is key. there may be no "need" to consume meats, but they certainly aren't bad for you either. fish is downright healthy without question. veggies should be a part of everyone's diet though, but not neccessarily as a major protein source, but for the other benefits. | ||
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Elite Bodybuilder
Posts: 934 |
Anyone that is a vegetarian, in fact any who are not as well, please give the provide me with a website that breaks down plant proteins into the amino acid structure? Wish to do a little more research on this topic. This discussion is getting into some depth good to see there have been very few flames in this thread. Appologies to Meanone for what I mentioned in one of my posts. I am going to delete that part now. Anyway as said above, lets simplify this whole discussion. 1. There are 22 amino acids 2. They are in a presice amount of each amino acid in human muscle tissue. The most effective way to bulk up as quickly as possible would be to eat human muscle tissue. Or find another way of doing it i.e to form an ananlysis of human muscle tissue when broken down and coming up with something that represents each amino acid in the exact amount. If you can get vege proteins that can do this then please provide me with details, this is not to say it is impossible but rather going to be very time consuming and possibly costly. 3. If 10% of your muscle was occupied or made up of the amino acid glutamine and 1% made up of amino acid Phenyithrosine, why would anyone wish to consume a food that contains a breakdown of 10% Phenyithrosine and only 1% glutamine. Your body needs more glutamine than Phenyithrosine. 4. Ulter, you may have mistook my point, I am saying in order to get as big as possible in as little time as possible you need the same makeup of human muscle. I am not saying there is any meat that can do this, but in general you are going to be able to get a lot closer to the same ratio of human muscle tissue than you can with most vege proteins, especially if taking chicken, turkey and egg whites or so on. As I said it would be as efficent to combine plant and animal proteins to get the required ratio of aminos. 5. Is food really broken down into amino acids, thanks for pointing that one out. We are not talking about what food gets broken down into we are discussing how close that profile of aminos is in comparison to real human muscle. I am sure more views will follow but let no one flame. ------------------ | ||
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Amateur Bodybuilder
Posts: 200 |
Iron Game, just one small flaw in the theory that by eating meat you are more closely matching animo acid profiles. The body will NOT absorb everything you eat! This means that some amino acids, or some levels of amino acids will pass through the intestine, unused. Therefore, it's really unimportant to EXACTLY or even relatively closely match up levels in the foods you eat. All you can do is attempt to eat all 22 of the amino acids in a equal amount and hope your body absorbs them in equal amounts. --==MeanOne==-- ------------------ Owner of "The Anabolic Clinic" UPDATED: 01/02/01 | ||
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Freak
Posts: 1667 |
Iron, I understand what you're saying but I just don't agree with it. I don't believe there is any evidence to support that theory and I know there are dozens of studies that refute it. SideBar: It's a shame you have to ask not to be flamed on this board. ------------------ | ||
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Elite Bodybuilder
Posts: 934 |
Yes Meanone, that is my point. It is far easier to get a full spectrum of aminos by eating meat than it is to eat plant sources, as above, it can be done but time consuming and you have to be very determined. But good luck to those who can. ------------------ | ||
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Guru
Posts: 2105 |
Fellas you'll note that evolution has made the elephant, giraffe and cow herbavors. . .that are certainly massive animials. . .please not the killer whale and many large animials are completely conivorous, so the size of the animal arguement doesn't hold water. . Next, people as dictated by our teeth and digestive ability can process both vegatables and meats. ERGO: herbavores. Seems to me logically the ideal diet for a human being is a combination of both meat and vegatables for combination of all necessary nutrients. . .when body building or power lifting your looking to maximize your colories by eating the foods that work best. . .I believe it to be a combination of both. . .I will never and could never forsake meat, but hold vegatable in high regard as well. . .for the all the vegatarians out there I appreciate the sentiment and your discipline and perhaps while I'm waisting away with colon cancer in 30 years I'll sit back and realize you were right, but for now I'll just enjoy all the steak your missing out on. ------------------ | ||
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Freak
Posts: 1588 |
Bump you Fener ------------------ Don't look back, life is too short |
All times are ET (US) | |
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posted January 02, 2001 10:25 AM
