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 Maybe try working out before taking steriods
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| Author | Topic: Maybe try working out before taking steriods | ||
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Elite Bodybuilder 
Posts: 1180 |
Is this no longer the way to build a body? No offense and slam me if you will but what ever happened to working hard building a foundation and than looking at what has been built and consider a cycle? There seem to be more and more people posting there pictures with very little foundation to them Not a slam on anybody in particular. Some say give them credit for posting but I can't believe some of what I see. I posted my pictures with great hesitation and I have been on an NPC stage. Seems as though some think this is an instant shortcut to build a body? I worked out two years and built myself up 40 pounds before I ever considered a cycle. No offense but all the drugs in the world won't do it for ya if you don't do the time in the gym. I've never written a flame post but its appearing that some on this board think its all about drugs. Well its not its all about hard work and reading, and asking, and building,a nd than considering where you are and where you want to go. Than and only than should you consider gear.     | ||
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Pro Bodybuilder 
Posts: 386 |
BUMP THIS STRAIGHT TO STOP!!!!!!!!!!! | ||
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Amateur Bodybuilder 
Posts: 91 |
I have been waiting for this topic to come up for some time now. I'd be willing to wager that a good percentage of the participants on this board have not, as some vets feel is necessary "Worked to their natural limit before they do gear." I kind of feel that this is hypocritical on their part, considering how many people consider the use of steroids to excel is cheating. Well, where do we draw the line? I'll say this much, having gone to the gym for several months and seeing little progress, and now having just completed my 1st cycle, I think to myself, "I would have loved going to the gym and working hard all along had I been able to see this type of results." Please forgive me but now having gained 30 lbs (with a good part of that being fat, admittedly) I almost look at natural bodybuilders, the ones who look the same as they did a year or 2 years ago with disdain. I feel like saying, "Wake up!" You are getting nowhere fast!". Maybe they are the suckers. Just my .02 | ||
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Elite Bodybuilder
Posts: 1093 |
Flexed, I totally agree. I laugh when an 18 yr old says he's reached his genetic peak. What these lazy fuckers need is to eat more, train heavy and do things like bent over rows, rack deadlifts, deads, squats (I wish i could still do them), ect. Trying to train on the training splits seen in Flex and MMI are partially to blame for this. How bout only lifting every other day, ie chest and bis on day 1 day 2 off, day 3 legs, day 4 off, shoulders/triceps day 5, day 6 off, day 7 back, then take 2 days off before starting over again. That split ensures that not only will the muscles recuperate but so will the nervous system. *Also its adviseable not do deadlifts and try and squat 2 or 3 days later. ------------------ | ||
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Cool Novice 
Posts: 19 |
Thanks for a GREAT post. It's about time someone said this. Some of these guys don't even look like they've seen a weight room and are ready to do a cycle that would make a pro green with envy. How about the guy that posted that he injected oil even though there looked like something growing in the bottle or the guy who's eyes were yellow but wasn't sure if he should go to the doc. Yikes! Newbies - put some time in the gym and GET YOUR DIET DOWN PAT before even thinking about doing a cycle. Sorry I just had to rant... SS | ||
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Pro Bodybuilder
Posts: 571 |
Bump! it is about fucking time this was said! These guys are 170 lbs and using steroids, this is pathetic. I went from 150-205 before my first cycle. Fuck I could do better with a zero protein diet then some of these wannabe's do with gear. ------------------ | ||
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Amateur Bodybuilder
Posts: 188 |
No offense guys, but Gear is only a small part of the growing game, your diet,routine, and shear intensity make you grow more than all the gear in the world. It saddens me to see young men who obviously have not put in the time & effort jump on the gear train.. You know who you are, so just think about it first, lets grow smart. Ole DOGGY | ||
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Cool Novice
Posts: 25 |
I've been waiting for this topic to come up also, because I'm a contrarian up to a point. I'm all for "paying dues," but some of you guys take it a bit too far, and I'll tell you why I think that by explaining my situation. I lifted for 5 years before I started trucking. Lifted 3 or 4 times a week and played raquetball regularly the last year of that period. I am 6' tall and I got "up to" 165 pounds the first year and never got beyond that in the next 4 years, despite eating everything in site. I was buff as hell, but still skinny. Fast forward 10 years of sitting in a truck. Now I'm out of the truck and working out again, after having lost almost 20 pounds. Three months later I'm back up to 165, eating everything in site and gobs of hi-tech protein. I look ripped because i have no body fat, but I am still 165 and I'm not going beyond that by eating more and lifting harder. I can't lift beyond physical exhaustion and eating more just makes me shit more often and/or have diarrhea. In summary, I do not need to lift for another 2 years to have sufficiently paid my dues for you people to be satisfied that I am ready for a cycle in order to put on more weight. And neither does anyone else for that matter. ------------------ | ||
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Cool Novice
Posts: 25 |
And furthermore, there have been two "respectable" double blind studies published recently, one using Deca and one using Test, that showed that couch potatoes fed juice gained more lean muscle than both the group that only worked out and the group that worked out and got juice. So much for dues paying ------------------ | ||
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Elite Bodybuilder
Posts: 1011 |
maybe if the coach potatoes were 80 year old women. basically your saying that studies show that it's better to take juice and sit on your ass than to workout and juice. maybe you should work at biotest or muscletech, you seem to be great at coming up with bullshit. | ||
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Cool Novice
Posts: 25 |
I didn't come up with it, and it's not bullshit, it's in the JAMA. I can't help it if you don't like the results of the studies. | ||
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Amateur Bodybuilder
Posts: 148 |
YO BRO I READ SOMETHING LIKE THAT ALSO. But what I think they were trying to say is its better to take test and not do anything , than not taking test at all. I believe the study did have to do with a couple different age groups. All groups that took test and did nothing more gained lean muscle mass as compared to the groups that did not take test and did nothing at all. Of course all things considered, one has to wonder if he/she can believe what they read. Later! | ||
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Cool Novice
Posts: 19 |
Sorry, but I really have to laugh when people say "I eat all the time but can't gain a pound" or "I eat everything in site but my weight stays the same". If you are not gaining weight then you are not eating enough - that's the bottom line. Fuck I eat 5000+ cals a day of FOOD - not supplements - and it's not an easy job BUT IT IS A JOB! You can't look like a 250 pounder if you eat like a 180 pounder. It drives me crazy when people say they can't gain weight. Geez, a guy can curl weight till his face turns blue but he kills any chance of being big by not eating enough. If you want results you must have intensity in the gym and INTENSITY IN THE KITCHEN! Eating is a full time job - better get used to it or take up bowling. SS | ||
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Guru 
Posts: 4123 |
I agree.. but lets keep age out of it...More 40 year olds look to steroids than younger such as myself...They are the ones looking for the quick fix because they have wasted their lives and finally had a heart attack and Figured its time to get in shape and attempt to be the biggest person in the gym 2 weeks into it. So lets keep age out of it... For those of us who are dedicated to the sport...Their are two sides.. ------------------ Lift | ||
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Pro Bodybuilder
Posts: 571 |
I agree, diet is so much more important then the steroids used, and I will even go so far as to say it is way more important then how intense your training is. I love the line "I eat everything in sight" haha whatever... IF THAT WAS TRUE THEN U WOULD BE ASKING HOW TO LOSE THE FAT, NOT BITCHING ABOUT NOT GAINING WEIGHT. Also keep in mind that u have to know what the hell your doing with your training program too. ------------------ | ||
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Amateur Bodybuilder
Posts: 51 |
I agree....before starting a cycle you need to have everything in order (goals, diet, training routine, etc). Many people enter into this lightly and think that AAS will take care of everything. This is not the case. Yeah, you may make minimal gains by taking gear and neglecting everything else, but just think of what could be accomplished by having a good foundation and having your other variables accounted for before doing a cycle!!! Stones | ||
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Cool Novice
Posts: 25 |
It's always a mistake to generalize too broadly from a limited amount of data. I merely point out these studies because there are quite a few individuals on this board who like to boldy proclaim that AS really won't do anything for you if you're not training correctly ("you have to know what the hell you're doing with your routine") and don't have the proper diet ("4000 didn't do it? Try 5000. That didn't do it? Try 6000. You haven't exploded yet? Try 7000"). You all know it's bullshit or you wouldn't be on here juicing, and it's not 40 year olds with bodies gone to seed, it's a bunch of 18-25 yr olds. Blonde Myth, what's true for your body is not true for mine, and vice versa. The only way my weight is going to increase further using food is if I carry it in my pockets. Some people are true ectomorphs. They do not get fat, no matter what. The defensive tone of all of these posts only serve to expose the fairly feeble attempts to maintain some kind of "moral high ground" in regards to using AAS. Perhaps a better name for this board would be "Elitist Fitness." And for what it's worth, I'm not trying to look like a 240 pounder. I'm trying to look like a 175 pounder. Can we all just lighten up now? ------------------ | ||
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Cool Novice
Posts: 25 |
quote:
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Elite Bodybuilder
Posts: 1180 |
you missed the point. let me go back and restate it. some on this board have NO muscle development and turn to steriods to " look like the magazines or the guys on stage". yes its a discussion board for steriods AND training and they go hand and hand. i for one feel sorry for some who have the dislusion that a needle will blow ya up and make ya huge without laying a foundation and putting in the time. . I also don't buy into I can't gain and grow. As stated by some others if ya eat, train hard, you will grow. If you have done the work and take them great. but to take them just starting out without paying your dues is what I meant by the post. Maybe go back and read it. don't know about you or how you look but some of the pictures have been great but on the other hand some I open having me saying to myself huh? | ||
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Elite Bodybuilder
Posts: 919 |
Intensity in the kitchen. That is f**k'n awsome... and so damn true. If doctors could perscribe food as anabolics(which food is) people might give eating a try before gear. A great point was made earlier in this thread...If you arn't gaining weight it simply comes down to the fact that you ARE NOT EATING ENOUGH CALORIES. Thats it...case closed. I whole heartedly beleive that one must know how to completely manipulate his body before AS becomes a logical option. The only way to know how to completely operate this incredibly complex piece of sofisticated machenary is by taking the time tp learn how to use it. It takes alot of time to figure out what works for you and what doesn't. Most newbies to the iron game pick up a book or magazine and see the routines and diets and automaticaly assume it applies to all humans. Nothing is farther from the truth. They absolutely must learn thier bodies if they have any chance of succeeding. Gear will be most effective when one knows how to work thier body. Then and only then will the real benifits of AS be fully utilized. ------------------ | ||
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Elite Bodybuilder
Posts: 872 |
agree 100%,you should reach your genatic potential naturaly and then start think on AS as aid to your cause. ------------------ | ||
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Amateur Bodybuilder
Posts: 61 |
Jay,you sound once again like an idiot.Steroids are not only for you young grasshopper. All 40yo should take some testosterone to conteract what they have lost due to age and use some HGH. In the very near future gentlemen this will be a NORMAL practice(It already is to the very rich)to supplement your own hormonal levels and bring them up to par. The irony is the nutritional companies in the USA are acually making this come true much faster by education of all the prohormones ,now these don't work and in time people will realize this and with their new found knoweledge they will go to the doctors and get the real thing.Steroids are only a controlled substance in the USA and only frowned apon for young people. Take a 40yo that is not a bodybuilder and he has a valid reason to use them in the USA.All other countries is it much easier.,
[This message has been edited by good simon (edited January 01, 2001).] | ||
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Elite Bodybuilder
Posts: 919 |
I would like to make the point that hormone THERAPY and AS use for extreme physical enhancement, the purpose we are discussing here, are two entirely different approaches. Hormone thereapy involves, when compared to bodybuilding use, very small doses. It isn't used for the purpose of packing on 30 pounds at a rapid rate, nor is it used to acheive unnaturaly and incredibly low body fat. It is used modestly to maintain the hormone functions that mimic that of a younger, healthier individual. Much like a fountain of youth. The point of therapy and "juicing" are quite different. ------------------ | ||
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Amateur Bodybuilder
Posts: 61 |
Beezer, I can't agree with you more.You made some sound points in your 2 earier posts that ring very true. Calories are the utmost important piece to the equation. Learn your body,find out how it works ------------------ | ||
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Cool Novice
Posts: 36 |
Very interesting topic. I am an advocate of training for at least several years before using gear. But the exact timing depends on goals, doesn't it? If I had ambitions of being a pro, I would have used a lot more, a lot earlier. As I am just doing it for myself, I trained for a dozen years before I did my first cycle at age 32. By that time I had tried just about every variation on routine, intensity, volume, and diet that I could find. My workout logs finally told me that I was very close to my genetic limits of strength and size and since I was not yet where I wanted to be, I decided to use AAS. Cton Haul -- please post a reference to the article you mention. I find it very difficult to believe that AAS with no training is better than AAS with training. However, I will let the research speak for itself. | ||
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Cool Novice
Posts: 25 |
quote: I have to believe there is a middle ground between these two options, and that is what I and some others here are talking about. Flexed1, I agree very much with your second post. I look at some of the pictures posted recently and I say 'I don't get it.' I don't have the answer, I just have a hangover. ------------------ | ||
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Elite Bodybuilder
Posts: 1180 |
I think the hormone theraphy is a good twist but should be kept seperate to keep this issue at its original post. As one age's test makes ay feel younger and that can't be disputed. But again keeping it on topic you all have some great responses. | ||
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Cool Novice
Posts: 25 |
Intensity, here ya go. Here's two for starters. All these studies are being conducted in the context of therapy for HIV/AIDS, because that is currently the only area being investigated for the use of anabolics in a medically acceptable manner. From JAMA 2000 Feb 9;283(6):763-70 (You must use this link to view the full JAMA article unless you are a JAMA subscriber or AMA member.) RESULTS: Body weight increased significantly by 2.6 kg (P<.001) in men receiving testosterone alone and by 2.2 kg (P = .02) in men who exercised alone but did not change in men receiving placebo alone (-0.5 kg; P = .55) or testosterone and exercise (0.7 kg; P = .08). From the Annals of Internal Medicine From the discussion: "The increase in lean body mass in response to exercise alone is equivalent to the effects of lower doses of testosterone (4, 6) and those of anabolic steroids (16, 17). " ------------------ | ||
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Amateur Bodybuilder
Posts: 213 |
Gear is a privilege. | ||
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Guru
Posts: 4123 |
quote: I never said They weren't for older people ------------------ Lift | ||
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Amateur Bodybuilder
Posts: 96 |
nice post | ||
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Amateur Bodybuilder
Posts: 130 |
Cton Hall: those ar every interesting studies, but I think the fact that the subjects were all AIDS patients cannot be discounted. Also, the doses were significantly less than the average bb uses, so I wonder if the results would hold true at higher doses as well. I can't accept that for a healthy young adult, AS use alone will produce more gains than AS + exercise. It seems to me that there are plenty of competitors and other people on this board who could provide ample empirical evidence to the contrary. That aside, I absolutely agree that proper diet and nutrition are the most potent weapons in any mass-gaining arsenal. | ||
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Amateur Bodybuilder
Posts: 133 |
I guess I'm kind of on the fence on this one. I think alot of it could be that many of the guys here started juicing after they had worked out for a long time, and they don't want to see some guy come in and be where they are in six months. Everyone says reach your genetic potential, but in the same breath they will say if you eat enough you will grow. If theories about diet hold true there can't be a limit. How are you supposed to know what that limit is anyway? I also don't think that someone should expect to juice and suddenly look like a model. It takes alot of hard work, even with gear. It is not a quick fix, cure all. Basically, I look at it like this. Everyone here has a goal. AS can help you reach that goal. If someone has been seriously working out for a while, to the point where they have a good routine down, proper form, etc, then why not use? I don't see a logical reason to work out for 5 years to get to the same spot you can reach in 2. I think AS can be used to reach your potential quicker. | ||
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Elite Bodybuilder
Posts: 1197 |
Yea, probably all they (the guys who didn't work out) gained was fat..the guys who worked out gained muscle but lost fat | ||
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Cool Novice
Posts: 18 |
I've never taken juice in my life and I weigh 220 with 9 % bodyfat. I'm a sophomore in college and have been lifting since 5th grade. Now is the first time I've considered using them, and they're only for cutting purposes...I feel bad for all you suckers who can't gain a pound without steroids...as far as I'm concerned, they're just a copout for people who don't know how to eat or train properly. No offense to those who've paid their dues. Juice ain't gonna be the miracle drug, if you ain't gainin' without them, then you ain't gonna gain much on them!! | ||
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Amateur Bodybuilder
Posts: 139 |
You know, I've tried working out clean. But for some reason I couldn't gain anything. I am of course, joking. This post (like many) has started with an extreme though intelligent topic and compromised through discussion and mediation to produce a valid--though elusive--point. Put in your time before you juice. How much time? Everyone is different; when you think you are ready, wait a couple of months. | ||
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Amateur Bodybuilder
Posts: 83 |
There is no doubt that AS makes all the difference in muscle-building. Yes, diet and training are important of course. But AS gives the edge no other natural can possibly catch up even with the strictest form of diet/training. | ||
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Elite Bodybuilder
Posts: 653 |
Bump........very true .....bout time someone said it. Luca | ||
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Elite Bodybuilder
Posts: 1180 |
Bigbald 1 BINGO | ||
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Elite Bodybuilder
Posts: 1377 |
Roids are a supplement. Not a miracle, food is the real friend when lifting, as is time. Bumppppppppp ------------------ | ||
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Amateur Bodybuilder
Posts: 128 |
Its refreshing to here this from a lot of the Iron Bros that are actually taking AS now. My belief as many of you know is from the standpoint of the natural BB. Our society is based on the path of least resistance, ie:AS. Today the younger generation seems to be enamored by the limelight that Pro BB's portray. The media in part has played into this because they simply try and push every supplement as a quick fix! In bodybuilding my friends, there is no quick fix, no easy way out. You want to be an Iron Warrior you must go through the gauntlet first. Those of you who get on the AS wagon to early will never truely appreciate the essence of working out with your bodies natural abilities. Its sad to see this sport go in the direction it has. I see it all to often on this board. So many young guys posting nothing but drug related topics. Look at the training section of Elite. Its half the volume of this board! In my opinion people should be more involved in what really makes a bodybuilder, training, than looking for the next best drug to get there faster. This isnt a race guys, if your a true Iron Bro, your in this for the long haul. | ||
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Amateur Bodybuilder
Posts: 212 |
Completely and absolutely agree. I see more and more beginner BB's taking AS when they should still be figuring out their routines and diet. ------------------ | ||
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Amateur Bodybuilder
Posts: 96 |
bump | ||
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Amateur Bodybuilder
Posts: 165 |
Reach the muscle plateau first and only then look for alternatives I say. Muscle tear and injuries are encountered more frequently if the plateau is not reached. The muscles will not be used to the strain |
All times are ET (US) | |
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posted December 31, 2000 07:03 PM
