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When should I change workout and to what??

Anything that has "Smith Machine Shoulder Press" or any other type of smith machine in it is a good indication that the entire program is crap.

That is your typical body builder mag, "lets sell you tones of supplements" type work out. It is crap, it is not optimal training.

I would suggest you switch to something better today.
 
Lol pretty much every person who comes on here asking for a routine basically gets told do 5x5 dont change it and come back when your strong and not a n00b anymore :FRlol:
 
djeclipse said:
With that program it will be quite some time before that happens, if ever.
Click to expand...

I know the 5x5 is good just pretty much every answer on here is the same lol,
n00b: I want bigger bicepts
EF: heavy deadlifts

n00b: I wana get bigger iv been doing flex workouts what shall i do now i think iv platued
EF: 5x5 follow it to a T

n00b: how do i get a 6 pak
EF: 5x5, diet, cardio

lol.
 
ExtraMile said:
I know the 5x5 is good just pretty much every answer on here is the same lol,
n00b: I want bigger bicepts
EF: heavy deadlifts

n00b: I wana get bigger iv been doing flex workouts what shall i do now i think iv platued
EF: 5x5 follow it to a T

n00b: how do i get a 6 pak
EF: 5x5, diet, cardio

lol.
Click to expand...

Don't be so ignorant.

Go ahead and do what you want, waste your time with typical BB type programs, no one here will loose any sleep over it.

If someone comes here asking for help I am going to suggest the program that will get him the best results and at the same time teach him the proper way to train, planning, progression.

You don't have to do it, but I am certainly not going to recommend him something that doesn't work just becasue it was recommended to the last person that asked teh same question.

The fact that you made that post shows you don';t understand the program at all, or training in general. It is people like you that have been giving bad advice for so long that has been so detrimental to the weight training community. The ignorant leading the ignorant.
 
djeclipse said:
Anything that has "Smith Machine Shoulder Press" or any other type of smith machine in it is a good indication that the entire program is crap.

That is your typical body builder mag, "lets sell you tones of supplements" type work out. It is crap, it is not optimal training.

I would suggest you switch to something better today.
Click to expand...

people with ac joint issues benefit greatly from a smith machine while still being able to lift near max effort weight without worrying about joint stability and i could introduce you to dozens of monsters who swear by the smith machine for bbing purposes. people who are into bbing for the long haul recognize the importance of a smith machine. your joints wont last forever in the 5 x 5, there is a point of diminishing returns.

and dont assume you know what optimal training is. not everyone has the same goals.
 
timtim said:
people with ac joint issues benefit greatly from a smith machine while still being able to lift near max effort weight without worrying about joint stability and i could introduce you to dozens of monsters who swear by the smith machine for bbing purposes. people who are into bbing for the long haul recognize the importance of a smith machine. your joints wont last forever in the 5 x 5, there is a point of diminishing returns.

and dont assume you know what optimal training is. not everyone has the same goals.
Click to expand...

Smith machine puts your body at unnatural angles, with unnatural bar movement. ON top of that you don't use any stabilizer muscles as the smith machine takes care of that for you. So when you go to lift something in a similar movement in real life, the stabilizers are weak and that is when injury happens.

I don't care who uses the smith machine, it is an injury waiting to happen. Strong/ big muscles and weak stabilizers = injury.

As far as optimal training, adding strength and size allowing the body to grow as a whole while doing it in the most efficient way is optimal training.

The useless bb split he posted is not optimal training for anyone new to lifting, or even people that have been lifting for years.

Most successful body builders have a power lifting, or similar strength training background. they have spent years on core lifts, building mass and getting stronger. They already have the size they need to compete. They may then turn to a BB type routine to focus on specific areas that they need to please the judges, but this is after putting on size with core lifts. They didn't get there by doing BB splits, if they did, they spent thousands, on top of thousands on juice.

For a new lifter to go out and try a program that is for someone that already has size and just wants to focus on specific areas is far form optimal for that person. Optimal training for a new lifter is core lifts, adding weight to the bar, with planned progression. It doesn't matter if the goal is to add some muscle and loose BF (get ripped), or add size, or just get fucking strong, the training is the same, diet is the variable.

So ya, I know what optimal training is.
 
djeclipse said:
Don't be so ignorant.

Go ahead and do what you want, waste your time with typical BB type programs, no one here will loose any sleep over it.

If someone comes here asking for help I am going to suggest the program that will get him the best results and at the same time teach him the proper way to train, planning, progression.

You don't have to do it, but I am certainly not going to recommend him something that doesn't work just becasue it was recommended to the last person that asked teh same question.

The fact that you made that post shows you don';t understand the program at all, or training in general. It is people like you that have been giving bad advice for so long that has been so detrimental to the weight training community. The ignorant leading the ignorant.
Click to expand...

chill bro I wasn't making fun of anything I just found it funny how many times the same question is asked :)

if you really want Ill type you out my routine in detail and you can evaluate it and tell me if you think Im wasting my time or if I know anything about training, sure I wont know as much as you but Im only 14, Iv been training for 6 months you have probably been training for years.
 
djeclipse said:
Smith machine puts your body at unnatural angles, with unnatural bar movement. ON top of that you don't use any stabilizer muscles as the smith machine takes care of that for you. So when you go to lift something in a similar movement in real life, the stabilizers are weak and that is when injury happens.

I don't care who uses the smith machine, it is an injury waiting to happen. Strong/ big muscles and weak stabilizers = injury.

As far as optimal training, adding strength and size allowing the body to grow as a whole while doing it in the most efficient way is optimal training.

The useless bb split he posted is not optimal training for anyone new to lifting, or even people that have been lifting for years.

Most successful body builders have a power lifting, or similar strength training background. they have spent years on core lifts, building mass and getting stronger. They already have the size they need to compete. They may then turn to a BB type routine to focus on specific areas that they need to please the judges, but this is after putting on size with core lifts. They didn't get there by doing BB splits, if they did, they spent thousands, on top of thousands on juice.

For a new lifter to go out and try a program that is for someone that already has size and just wants to focus on specific areas is far form optimal for that person. Optimal training for a new lifter is core lifts, adding weight to the bar, with planned progression. It doesn't matter if the goal is to add some muscle and loose BF (get ripped), or add size, or just get fucking strong, the training is the same, diet is the variable.

So ya, I know what optimal training is.
Click to expand...



i didnt argue any of the points you made. you said the smith is crap and it is far from it. if youre a moron without a clue, you may set up bad angles in the smith machine, but your point of unnatural angles is wrong. for those of us who dont need joint stabilizing exercises, the smith is great.
 
ExtraMile said:
chill bro I wasn't making fun of anything I just found it funny how many times the same question is asked :)

if you really want Ill type you out my routine in detail and you can evaluate it and tell me if you think Im wasting my time or if I know anything about training, sure I wont know as much as you but Im only 14, Iv been training for 6 months you have probably been training for years.
Click to expand...

It seemes like you were saying that to suggest the 5 x 5 to someone new was wrong.

You have been doing the beginner strength program with alternating A, B workouts, involving core compound movements.

I also see that you are starting to stall, or have been stalled on a few of your lifts for a while.

The beginner program is great as you're adding weight to the bar each week, but one can only do that for so long. I would also suggest that you move to the intermediate workout, take a week to deaload and start the intermediate 5 x 5 where weight is added every week, instead of every workout.

You will start making gains on your squat and deads again.

Also, I see that you are startingto stall
 
timtim said:
i didnt argue any of the points you made. you said the smith is crap and it is far from it. if youre a moron without a clue, you may set up bad angles in the smith machine, but your point of unnatural angles is wrong. for those of us who dont need joint stabilizing exercises, the smith is great.
Click to expand...


The movement of the smith machine itself is unnatural. A fixed straight path for the bar is unnatural and puts your body in bad angles, no matter how you set it up.

Take the bench for example. The proper bench press movement is not in a straight line, it has a slight arc (bar movement). The squat is the worst on the smith machine as you end up with your feet way out in front of your body as the bar moves straight down.


I understand joint pain being a problem, but I would suggest the smith machine is the cause of that joint pain, not the solution to it.
 
djeclipse said:
It seemes like you were saying that to suggest the 5 x 5 to someone new was wrong.

You have been doing the beginner strength program with alternating A, B workouts, involving core compound movements.

I also see that you are starting to stall, or have been stalled on a few of your lifts for a while.

The beginner program is great as you're adding weight to the bar each week, but one can only do that for so long. I would also suggest that you move to the intermediate workout, take a week to deaload and start the intermediate 5 x 5 where weight is added every week, instead of every workout.

You will start making gains on your squat and deads again.

Also, I see that you are startingto stall
Click to expand...

Yeah I was kind of doing the 3x5 but changed a little for what I need and prefer,

3x5 ¬ my workout
A
Squats 3x5 ¬ Squats 3x5
Bench 3x5 ¬ Military 3x5
Deadlift 1x5 ¬ Deep Dips 3x8, DB Row 3x10

B
Squats 3x5 ¬ Squats 1x20, 1x15, 1x12, 1x10, same with leg ext.
Military 3x5 ¬ Bench 3x5
Pendlay 3x5 ¬ Dead 1x5, RDL 2x6

I also added in some core and grip work after each workout.

So you would suggest I would move to this? Bill Starr 5x5 - Madcow Intermediate or Linear Version ... I will take that into account however I get very bored with programs very easily and always have done and I think after 4 weeks I will already want to change, especially as you end up spending more time loading/unloading the bar than actuallly lifting and you only really do 1 work set per lift...

Maybe doing this will help me progress on squats but I doubt on deadlifts as I have actually been using the 5x5 calculator to work out my deadlift weights, so I started off pretty easy then after around 4 weeks when it started to get harder I stalled again.

Big_BK reccomended doing the opposite and doing more sets and less reps anyway...
 
ExtraMile said:
Yeah I was kind of doing the 3x5 but changed a little for what I need and prefer,

3x5 ¬ my workout
A
Squats 3x5 ¬ Squats 3x5
Bench 3x5 ¬ Military 3x5
Deadlift 1x5 ¬ Deep Dips 3x8, DB Row 3x10

B
Squats 3x5 ¬ Squats 1x20, 1x15, 1x12, 1x10, same with leg ext.
Military 3x5 ¬ Bench 3x5
Pendlay 3x5 ¬ Dead 1x5, RDL 2x6

I also added in some core and grip work after each workout.

So you would suggest I would move to this? Bill Starr 5x5 - Madcow Intermediate or Linear Version ... I will take that into account however I get very bored with programs very easily and always have done and I think after 4 weeks I will already want to change, especially as you end up spending more time loading/unloading the bar than actuallly lifting and you only really do 1 work set per lift...

Maybe doing this will help me progress on squats but I doubt on deadlifts as I have actually been using the 5x5 calculator to work out my deadlift weights, so I started off pretty easy then after around 4 weeks when it started to get harder I stalled again.

Big_BK reccomended doing the opposite and doing more sets and less reps anyway...
Click to expand...

Do what you want. If you're not going to put enough effort into it and only do it for 4 weeks there is no point. There is no point in doing any type of program for only 4 weeks, you'll end up jumping form program to program getting no results.

As far as the deadlifts go, it's not simply about the 5x5 calculator, it's about the entire program as a whole, weight progression, over reaching. If you do it properly and put proper effort into it, your deadlift will go up. But it seems you are not willing to do it properly so there's no point.

You started off good, putting on some size and adding weight to the bar just as any beginner would. Now you're at a point where just going out and lifting isn't enough, you need a program/ plan to get your weight's going up. You are at the point that a lot of new lifters come across They are new to lifting, it is new to the body and just about anything you do gets results. Then they reach a point where they hit a plateau and just lifting isn't enough. This is the point where a lot of people get frustrated and stop lifting all together.
 
djeclipse said:
Do what you want. If you're not going to put enough effort into it and only do it for 4 weeks there is no point. There is no point in doing any type of program for only 4 weeks, you'll end up jumping form program to program getting no results.

As far as the deadlifts go, it's not simply about the 5x5 calculator, it's about the entire program as a whole, weight progression, over reaching. If you do it properly and put proper effort into it, your deadlift will go up. But it seems you are not willing to do it properly so there's no point.

You started off good, putting on some size and adding weight to the bar just as any beginner would. Now you're at a point where just going out and lifting isn't enough, you need a program/ plan to get your weight's going up. You are at the point that a lot of new lifters come across They are new to lifting, it is new to the body and just about anything you do gets results. Then they reach a point where they hit a plateau and just lifting isn't enough. This is the point where a lot of people get frustrated and stop lifting all together.
Click to expand...

no your right i wont put maximum effort into it after a while as I wont enjoy it, like I said the fact that you spend more time changing the weights than actually lifting and they fact that each day is so short and so similar I just dont think I will enjoy, i just think the 5x5 isnt what I would enjoy and therefore put effort into, right now I enjoy the programs so much on the way to the gym I have a butterfly feeling in my stomach so much i feel sick and I start breathing real quick cuz I cant wait to get in there, with 5x5 I just wouldnt spend all day at school looking forward to hitting the gym or anything like that, thats why I havnt really done it much, I tryed it for 6 weeks before and didnt enjoy it. Thankyou for your advice and Ill keep to routines made up of compound lifts for sure, just not the sets and weights that are used in the 5x5.
 
ExtraMile said:
no your right i wont put maximum effort into it after a while as I wont enjoy it, like I said the fact that you spend more time changing the weights than actually lifting and they fact that each day is so short and so similar I just dont think I will enjoy, i just think the 5x5 isnt what I would enjoy and therefore put effort into, right now I enjoy the programs so much on the way to the gym I have a butterfly feeling in my stomach so much i feel sick and I start breathing real quick cuz I cant wait to get in there, with 5x5 I just wouldnt spend all day at school looking forward to hitting the gym or anything like that, thats why I havnt really done it much, I tryed it for 6 weeks before and didnt enjoy it. Thankyou for your advice and Ill keep to routines made up of compound lifts for sure, just not the sets and weights that are used in the 5x5.
Click to expand...

Keep us posted on your minimal/ lack of progress.
 
ExtraMile said:
so your saying just because Im not gonna do the 5x5 then Im not gonna make progress and doing the 5x5 is the only possible was i can make progress
Click to expand...

I am saying randomly lifting shit is not going to get you anywhere as far as results go. You have already been stalled for 4 month's now, it's not working, why do you think it will magically start working at some point.

Good luck.
 
5x5 is golden EM. don't dog it till you try it.
that is the truth about any workout.
the longer you stay consistent with your current program the more results you will see.
 
ExtraMile said:
I will take that into account however I get very bored with programs very easily and always have done and I think after 4 weeks I will already want to change, especially as you end up spending more time loading/unloading the bar than actuallly lifting and you only really do 1 work set per lift...
Click to expand...

As already suggested, you should take up Pilates and yoga if you are too lazy to load the bar. And when they become too much work for you, try this, it seems better suited for you.

YouTube - Jane Fonda Workout Video


You have taken ignorance to a new level I thought I would never in my life time see.

Congrats.
 
Last edited:
djeclipse said:
As already suggested, you should take up Pilates and yoga if you are too lazy to load the bar. And when they becomes too much work for you, try this, it seems better suited for you.

YouTube - Jane Fonda Workout Video


You have taken ignorance to a new level I thought I would never in my life time see.

Congrats.
Click to expand...

i have told you this over and over, ITS NOT THAT IM TOO LAZY TO LOAD/UNLOAD THE BAR, the reason is I wont enjoy it and enjoying hitting the gym is a big priority for me, after all I wouldnt be doing this is I didnt enjoy it. Why cant you understand that.

And anyway I said yesterday I am going to try the 5x5! Not the madcow variation you posted the original Bill Star 5x5. OK?
 
DJeclipse,

I know you have strong opinions. I have gone on with you in the past. Leave that strong conviction free of rude comments.

Less than friendly dialogue is now zero tolerance. Gotta be civil bro and the crap stops right now.

I don't mod this board section, or you would have been banned for a day for this already. You can't be like this. Take this as a strong warning, and a last one.



Exatramile,

I go to the gym and do what needs to be done regardless of how fun it is.:)
 
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