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Your nurses of the future.
- Thread starter biteme
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bignate73
New member
my roommate today, told me that he was discussing "sled dragging" (and that i do it for training) with a client of his....who used to be a nurse. of course it was bad for me, could damage my vertebrae/disk (he wasnt very clear on it) etc etc.
then again....she is a personal training client wanting to lose weight...whats the irony in that.
then again....she is a personal training client wanting to lose weight...whats the irony in that.
Scarlett33
New member
You know I really take offence to that. I'm an RN and I worked my ass off to get through school. You don't know what you are talking about. As in every profession there are losers. But nurses as a whole are good professional people.jerkbox said:
Scarlett33
New member
And bite me, do you ever have any thing positive to say about anyone, aside from maybe your daughter?
ViperHMS
Well-known member
My neighbors wife is becoming a nurse and guess what she is overweight, smokes, eats all kinds of junk foods, and believes that this magical pill her doctor perscribed her is gonna fix her obesity problem without excercise. It makes me crazy that she takes a pill and says i've lost 10lbs so far and i'm gonna lose another 2-4lbs a week just taking this pill. I was like how about you get on a treadmill and really put this magic pill to work. Imagaine if you can lose 2-4lbs without doing any excercise how about what you could loose with excercise. Rigth now both her and her husband pay $80 month for gym membership that they haven't used since May when I convinced them to use it. They did for about 2 days. END RANT
Viper
Viper
D
DcupSheepNipples
Guest
As of yet I have not met a Nurse that looks like a Porno Nurse! It's a pretty fugly occupation!
shit is not easy either, I guarantee your average fucking barmaid would not do so well in A&P II or Microbiology. I do have to admit that there are a lot of fat asses in my class tho Scarlett33
New member
well you haven't met me or my best friend who is also a nurse. BTW we are both married to nice looking dr.s and if you are even decent looking and a dr. you don't marry "fugly" women.DcupSheepNipples said:
jerkbox said:
you're a dumb fuck.
It requires a 4 year degree invery science oriented fields as well as intensive clinicals.
I can only imagine what you do for a living. Tell us. I need a laugh. I'm not even a nurse. I just want to laugh at you. So tell us.
BTW, average doctor's salary only $150K and falling. Nursing is catching up and filling the gaps in most hospitals.
A
ajtomasi
Guest
nurses just like anyother job will be outsourced overseas.
they already have nurses that come to america for 6 months at a time on a work visa and work for pennies on the dollar. look to see this trend continue.
they already have nurses that come to america for 6 months at a time on a work visa and work for pennies on the dollar. look to see this trend continue.
Fast Twitch Fiber
New member
I have an embarrasing story. I was going in for surgery on a broken hand. I had already been sedated and was given a local anesthetic. The nurse was hot as hell (or I was hallucinating). When she was trying to position me on the operating table my gown fell off and I was fully aroused. I wonder if I'm the only person that's ever had a hard on in the operating room.
Scarlett33
New member
Yes I would like to know what he does for a living too.MattTheSkywalker said:
About drs salaries, even the family practice guys here make way over 150k they make more like 300k and specialist even more. My husband does very well otherwise I would never be willing to live where we do. Thats the trade off.
A
ajtomasi
Guest
did she suck you off?
Scarlett33 said:Yes I would like to know what he does for a living too.
About drs salaries, even the family practice guys here make way over 150k they make more like 300k and specialist even more. My husband does very well otherwise I would never be willing to live where we do. Thats the trade off.
Hence "average". Specialists bring it up, pediatricians bring it down. Duh?
Your numebrs are crazy. Family practice guys on Long Island rarely make $300K and it is one of the richest areas inthe country.
I am invovled in a medical publishing business... I publish one of the best known pharmaceutical journals. I love doctors...they'll do/write/say whatever we tell them. They always have their hands out....
Scarlett33
New member
Whatever, I'm not trying to start any thing with you. My brother owns a practice consultant business so I'm very aware of what the docs make in my area and I certainly know what my husband makes, but then he is a specialist.MattTheSkywalker said:
Scarlett33 said:
oh...I didn't mean it that way....chill. Sometimes rural areas do make more because there are fewer doctors. I hope he makes ten million a year.
I hope he prescribes $100M in drugs though. Docs are a funny group.
MattTheSkywalker said:
dickface,
somehow I doubt that every type of nurse needs 4 yr degree...based on some of the trailer trash i've met who are nurses.....anyway,
i'm a art director/interactive designer/developer/usability specialist/information architect/blah blah blah...right now I work for a software company....laugh away
Scarlett33, i apologize for making generalizations
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jerkbox said:
ignorance is bliss. You can work with an associate's but typically RNs are 4 year degrees or more. Certain specialties require master's or more.
Software dork? LOL. Dime a dozen I suppose.
anabolicmd said:
Confusing them with LPN's maybe?
A
anabolicmd
Guest
MattTheSkywalker said:
Im not trying to start anything with you Matt, just reminding you that you are talking out of your ass again. Most Rns do not have 4 year degrees or more, ones that do arent typical as you said.
A
anabolicmd
Guest
MattTheSkywalker said:
Well get it straight before you post.
Scarlett33 said:
Yeah, I know, I'm turning the tables on the women. Being one of the only desirable males in the class, they want to get down my pants, but I'm not going to let them. THis is fun. I think I'll marry a female Dr. with lots of money. The things these women tell me, they are so much like men, they just hide it.. One today, told me how hard it is to be monogamous.
Scarlett33 said:
Absolutely and I have proof now whenever anyone says this to me. Just research my posts, I've handed out plenty of compliments. I'm going to print out my posts so that the next time someone says that I never have anything nice to say about people, I'll just say, "Here, eat your words."
biteme said:
man i could go on for hours about that.
the nursing majors at the place i go are that. they are even required to take 1 nutrition class. ha health care professionals my butt. btw HULKSTER was a nurse. just because im going ot be a doctor i will automatically have ripped abs and well defined very broad shoulders. dang nurses.
Scarlett33 said:
i completley agree with that statement.
im just burned bc i just got out of a year and a half relationship with a female who happened to be a nursing major. almost every habit of hers when it came to food, rest , or exercise apalled me.
MattTheSkywalker said:
of course. Thats the only way that insurance and HMO's will have it.
Scarlett33
New member
These are my thoughts and observations on the whole nursing school thing. An assosiate degree is almost not worth having any more because it doesn't lead to any higher level jobs. Its kind of a glorifyed LPNwhich is just a step above a nurses aide. I mean no disrespect to either an LPN or an aide[CNA]. Thats just the way it is. THe people who pursue an LPN degree or RN associate do tend to be more blue collar type people again I mean nothing negative by that. Its a fact. Those that pursue a BSN are often in the position I was in . I already had a BS degree in history, which is a lame major. You cna't do a lot with that degree. With a few just a few more select hours I found that I could get a BSN, which is very much in demand, so why not.
Taps
New member
I had coffee with a nurse this morning. She was cute.
However, i will say that all the other ones I've met were fat and ugly.
I do some financial stuff for a lot of medical people...nurses make a ton of money. Not quite as much as pharmasists starting out, but damn close. 50-60K right out of school isn't bad.
However, i will say that all the other ones I've met were fat and ugly.
I do some financial stuff for a lot of medical people...nurses make a ton of money. Not quite as much as pharmasists starting out, but damn close. 50-60K right out of school isn't bad.
Scarlett33
New member
Taps said:
well then I guess we can now conclude that ALL nurses are fat and ugly with the exception of the one you had coffee with, but they have lots of money. Glad this is now settled.This is the last time I'm responding to this ignorant ass thread.
Scarlett33 said:
This is the last time I'm responding to this ignorant ass thread.
I'm willing to give you the benefit of the doubt but it would be nice if you could prove us wrong with a pic.
Lao Tzu
New member
biteme said:
dick. none of the women are throwing themselves at me in school. damn my chubby introverted ass. My partner is a MILF though.
i'd say about 60% of the women re obese in the nursing classes at my school. there are about 16 in my class and at least 5 are really fat and about 11 are fat. what the fuck about nursing attracts big people? fat women & muscular men populate the field. why i ask.
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nordstrom said:
There's about 5 guys in my class and 25 women. Most of the women are fat. I don't know why, I think they just mirror the average population. At least 1 guy is gay and I suspect that 2 others might be. I bet the women would throw themselves at you if you knew how to play them. I think it's just an instinct with me, I do let them know that I'm interested in them. I make it a point to talk to all of them when I get a chance. Even the fat ones, I may have no romantic interest in them but I still show interest in them as fellow classmates.
nordstrom said:
theres 30 women & 2 men in mine, seperated into 2 seperate classes.
you should know i have no active pimp skills. no interpersonal sexual skills.all i do is bitch about it too, i do nothing to improve the situation.
Do you have social anxiety? If so, Klonopin is an excellent drug for that and may bring you out of your shell. Very addictive though. Makes life better, so I don't give a shit.
Lao Tzu
New member
biteme said:
i dont know if its that. http://www.socialphobia.org/whatis.html#whatis1
i don't have any of those symptoms. i have no problem communicating with people as long as i have something of value to say or need to hear something of value (and there isn't alot of that so i don't talk alot). I'm not 'afraid' of women, i don't lose my bowels in their presence or anything. so i still have no idea whats wrong with me.
I think when i was young the idea that women are frigid and complained that men liked them somehow leeched its way into my brain and screwed me up. its probably a mixture of low self worth and thinking women are supercilious or something. i have no idea, i've been introspective and still cant figure it out.
Re: Re: Re: Your nurses of the future.
my aspirations do lie in medicine.
right now i work in sleep medicine as a psg tech.
i would like to come back to my small redneck town in southwest missouri (branson) and work in the more rural parts of the county.
i have a little under 8 months til the MCAT..... 15 months or so to graduate with a bio degree, chem minor and nutrition minor.
nordstrom said:
my aspirations do lie in medicine.
right now i work in sleep medicine as a psg tech.
i would like to come back to my small redneck town in southwest missouri (branson) and work in the more rural parts of the county.
i have a little under 8 months til the MCAT..... 15 months or so to graduate with a bio degree, chem minor and nutrition minor.
i must say that i renounce every belief that i have about nurses. My roomate was talking to this girl online today she had a webcam. she was an LPN, and g dang it she was friggin hot.
bump (not like its not going to be on the top anyways.)
bump (not like its not going to be on the top anyways.)
I have got to chime in here! I am currently in nursing school and I am by no means ignorant, ugly, fat, white trash, etc.. I actually have a degree in exercise phys. and , like Scarlett, have found that job opportunities are limited in that major. Therefore,I'm back in nursing school and plan to go the CRNA school in the future.
Oh, and my Mom went back to school and got her associates in nursing. She didn't go to college right out of high school because my dad wanted her to stay at home. She is an EXCELLENT nurse! Just becasue she has an associates doesn't relegate her to LPN status. In fact she is the only nurse some of the heart surgeons want to take care of their patients. Oh, let's not forget the nation as a whole is obese, not just nurses!
I think that there are unattractive overweight smokers in every career path-- that's just part of our society. If most of our population is ignorant about diet/training and is overweight, then of course there are many nurses who would fit into that category. There are a lot of homely ignorant accountants too.
Scarlett33
New member
Ok Raina, Nessa I said I would not post on this thread again, but I need to apologize to you guys. Some of the best, good hearted nurses I have ever worked with were Assoc. degree. I meant no disrespect at all. I know LPNs more knowledable than drs. as well. This whole thread pissed me off. THose guys saying all nurses were fat white trash slobs. Most of the ones I know are none of those things. I'm sorry if I stepped on any toes. No disrespect intended at allRaina said:
I shouldn't have generalized. Good luck to you guys in school. I don't give a shit what these tools say, nursing is a proud and upstanding profession.Scarlett
Y_lifter
New member
I love hot nurses wearing those V neck Scrubs..
Especially when they lean over the bed to check you over..
I think many of you don't have a clue as to the amount of medical and technical skills nurses must have today.
It's no longer just taking vitals, changing sheets and bedpans.
They are required to know and do things today that only Dr. did in the past..
Especially when they lean over the bed to check you over..
I think many of you don't have a clue as to the amount of medical and technical skills nurses must have today.
It's no longer just taking vitals, changing sheets and bedpans.
They are required to know and do things today that only Dr. did in the past..
Lao Tzu
New member
Nessa Bug said:
An ASN isn't the easy way out. the ASN degree is probably harder to do than the BSN degree. Its like saying using HIT instead of 8 sets is using the easy way out.
the professor at my school says only about 6% of ASN students get As in class. Meanwhile my friend who is getting her BSN say alot of studens are getting As. The same people i used to blow out of the water academically when i went to the same school/classes as them. Sucks because that means the door to graduate school will be more closed for those who get an ASN then transfer to a BSN because both the ASN & the transfer are harder than a straight BSN. on my 34 credit hours of prereqs i made straight As (and one B) with 1-2 hours of studying a week. Now i'm studying 12 or so hours a week and hoping to get at least a B average. During summer a year ago for a time i was in classes 27 hours a week and didn't study as hard as i am for 10 hours of nursing and my grades will be lower in this ASN program too.
If the transfer isn't super hard and my pre-reqs get added in then perhaps i can get into grad school if the issue comes up.
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Gemini_Man
New member
My girlfriend is an RN. With an ASN & 3 years experience her salary is quickly rising to what I make as an engineer. I've got 6 yrs exp. & a BS. I think one generalization that is safe to make about nurses is the awesome job security.
ASN's take the exact same same Licensing test as BSN's. They are the both "RN's" when all is said and done. To trivialize ASN's is absolutely unfair.
My girlfriend had a four year degree in psychology which after working worthless jobs for a few years realized how pretty much useless that degree was. She then applied, finally got into and completed her ASN. She told me that the girls and guys in her ASN classes worked harder than most any BSN's she knew when she went to University.
Most were older, more mature students (over 24) and not lazy 18-20 year olds who just wanted a quick easy degree. Many were single mothers who didn't have 4,5,6, years to waste starting over in University. Some were laid off techies who wanted a complete carreer change into something more stable. Many were like her with useless four year degrees. The consensus however, was that the people in that ASN program looked at it as their "last chance" and made the absolute most out of it. No partying like 18-21 y/o BSN students, No daddies money, no dating and boyfriends, no skipping classes, no BULLSHIT. They put their noses to the grindstone and made something of themselves.
During clinicals most students out of her class made such good impressions with the staff at many hospitals that they were able to get jobs there immediately after graduation. Many got jobs in the sought after and difficult units as ER, ICU, NICU, surgery, OR, etc. etc.
My girlfriend had a four year degree in psychology which after working worthless jobs for a few years realized how pretty much useless that degree was. She then applied, finally got into and completed her ASN. She told me that the girls and guys in her ASN classes worked harder than most any BSN's she knew when she went to University.
Most were older, more mature students (over 24) and not lazy 18-20 year olds who just wanted a quick easy degree. Many were single mothers who didn't have 4,5,6, years to waste starting over in University. Some were laid off techies who wanted a complete carreer change into something more stable. Many were like her with useless four year degrees. The consensus however, was that the people in that ASN program looked at it as their "last chance" and made the absolute most out of it. No partying like 18-21 y/o BSN students, No daddies money, no dating and boyfriends, no skipping classes, no BULLSHIT. They put their noses to the grindstone and made something of themselves.
During clinicals most students out of her class made such good impressions with the staff at many hospitals that they were able to get jobs there immediately after graduation. Many got jobs in the sought after and difficult units as ER, ICU, NICU, surgery, OR, etc. etc.
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Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Your nurses of the future.
my entire existence hinges on two things
my squat max
and my mcat score
not necessarily in that order either.
nordstrom said:
my entire existence hinges on two things
my squat max
and my mcat score
not necessarily in that order either.
Raina said:
agreed wholeheartedly. the school i go to is primarily a PT and teaching university so there is an excellent female/male ratio. therefore the unattractiveness generalization about nurses is greatly exaggerated due to the amount of nursing majors at this university.
Y_Lifter said:
uh huh, some specialised nurses get to the stage where they have knowledge exceeding that of a junior doc (in their specific field), and if you specialise as a nurse in a growing field with little attention devoted to it (ie.g. lymphoedema) you can make lots of money.
i didnt realise so many on here were in the healthcare field...nice to know.....also the thought of raina in a nurses uniform is giving me palpitations
nordstrom said:
Yeah, I couldn't stay out of work full time for the 2 years it would take to get the R.N. I plan to get the LVN, work on the weekends and get the higher pay and then bridge into a BSN. You're automatically accepted into the BSN program after you complete the LVN unless your grades are very low.
Lao Tzu
New member
biteme said:
thats good. the BSN is probably the best route too. i dont know if its the same in texas but here in indiana everyone ive talked to seems to agree that the ASN is much harder than the BSN. Youre smart and if you want to go into anaestheology school someday that BSN GPA will help you out.
Is the LVN/LPN a 6 month program in texas? its 12 months here.
also working nights pays better too. Plus nights are slower. So nights & weekends will give you better pay.
nordstrom said:
there's a program here in arkansas through baptist medical and UAMS where you go through and get a 2 year RN and then if accepted through uams in a year or so or maybe a little less you can get a BSN.
Lao Tzu
New member
juicedmullet said:
here in indiana you can transfer an ASN to a BSN in 18 months. However, if i ever got a BSN it would solely be to get into grad school and since a BSN is only 36 months total i guess i'd rather do that, start from scratch on a BSN since the pre-reqs are the same and my GPA would go up.
nordstrom said:
if my aspirations to become a physician prove to be too lofty for me, i will enroll as a nursing student (BSN undergrad degree). at that point my electives would be able to serve as a means to finish out a chemistry degree and work closer to being able to go to a dietetic internship program. working as a PSG tech, if you take the board exams, which suprisingly enough everyone i know that does this work has not done out of just not wanting to study, you start out somewhere between $20-25 base with a mileage and weekend differential also. all you do is watch a cpu all nigth and study, well thats all i do. you also get paid anywhere from $25-55 dollars per study to "score them" so its not unrealistic to make 70k a year working 4 nights a week or 5.
I think that careers in health care are great job stability. The baby boom generation will get sick and die in my lifetime.....working in the health field will pretty much gaurantee that I can always find a job. My hope also that once I'm an RN I can work less normal 9-5 hours. I'd rather work 2-3 really long days at night. My main plan is to get this degree, finish up the last year of my other 2 BAs, and then keep going to school after that learning more about whatever catches my fancy.
Raina said:
we could be perfect for eachother actually.
im 21 hours (depending on what classes go as bio and chem elective credit)from graduating with an evolutionary biology degree
5 hours from a chem minor, and i dont know how many from my nutrition minor. in december im going to take the board exam for psg tech and begin to learn how to score studies. next december i should graduate with 175 or so hours and just continue on in undergrad degrees until ive been accepted into medical school, marry a descendant of sam walton, or have bio, chem, and FACS (to be come a dietician) degees.
and i work long nights too!!!!
do you wakeboard or water ski?
Raina said:
with physicians becoming more and more of a "yes" man due to HMO's and insurance costs, i forsee RNs (especially BSN candidates) to become more and more an intrical part of our healthcare system. Although, when the ANA gets APN's the right to prescribe scheduled drugs in all states without answering to a physician; the apocalypse will come and so we wont have to worry aobut that hopefully.
juicedmullet said:
It's a stretch to call docs "yes men", although no doubt, they are owned by HMO's and insurance companies. I think "insurance whores" is better than "yes men".
I do some work in pharma marketing and publish a well-known pharma journal. (over 1M copies a year) We hire a lot of doctors to write for us, and these guys love getting outside the clinical side for a while.
The drugs they prescribe, indeed the conditions they diagnose, are often at the hands of pharma companies. Pharma companies buy drug rating companies. HMOs use the lists from the rating companies to make sure their docs prescribe enough.
If the docs don't, the docs are out of the HMO group and out of work usually. Hence "insurance whores"; docs have to do what the HMO tells them to do, and the HMO does what the pharma company tells them. Pharma companies are stuck with insurers (and the government through Medicare) - so there's the sell-out right there. Docs need to diagnose what they are told - accurate or no - and prescribe what they are told.
The highest paid docs are plastic surgeons, by a mile. And they do elective operations - no insurance. Coincidence? I think not. As health care gets more expensive, HMOs will force doctors' salaries down. It's simple market economics...people love to disagree but the statsitics are plain as day on this.
If I were in medicine I'd be a nurse isntead of a doctor in a second. It's a cool career, and your nobody's bitch.
MattTheSkywalker said:
i hear that, my favorite example is the over prescription of viagra for the first 9 months that it was out until it was linked to that heart problem.
maybe we can hurry up and subsidize health care.
the thing im really scared of is giving advanced practice nurses more power than they have. thats crap, less malpractice insurance, less overall training and nearly the same rights in many respects as physicians.
juicedmullet said:
If we subsidize health care, there will be a quick spie in doctors' salaries, and once taxpayers realize the costs, thy will go crazy. Docs' salaries will plumet.
Nurses will rise until they get closer to docs, and then they will all fall. Translation: fewer docs. less qualified nurses. That's bad.
The situation with advanced practice nurses is economics. It's cheaper.
MattTheSkywalker said:
i understand the situation with apn's and it really sux, that could be a big nail in the coffin for physicians. i just meant subsidize health care to control costs , not for physicians sake
juicedmullet said:
If you want to control costs, step 1 is GET THE GOVERNMENT AWAY FROM IT AS SOON AS POSSIBLE.
Docs should have high salaries. It's their reward for missing the first 30 years of life. And we want smart people in that line of work.
MattTheSkywalker said:
come on now matt, what do you think of canada?
Testosterone boy
New member
What do you do? Shine shoes?jerkbox said:
juicedmullet said:
health care up there is worse than ours. long waits for procedures you canhave here right away.
Cheaper drugs means less quality and less attentionfrom pharma R&D.
But I love the country.
Lao Tzu
New member
MattTheSkywalker said:
im pretty sure i read somewhere that 50% of medical diagnosis's are incorrect. I just read in a pharmaceutical textbook that doctor mistakes with drugs kill over 106,000 people a year.
Not only that, but there are alot of medical professionals who can do the work of a doctor for a lesser charge.
Physicians assistants can perform minor surgeries right now. and i think they are gaining more responsibility. Nursing managers/practitioners are gaining authority too.
A nurse anesthesiologist makes 1/2 what an MD anesthesiologist makes but 1/2 the hospitals in america have a nurse anesthesiologist as their sole anesthesiology practitioner. Its an example of a doctor being replaced by another medical professional who can do the same job for less money. an MD anesthesiologist makes $243,530 in Indianapolis and a nurse anesthesiologist makes 106,564.
Physicians assistants and nurses with grad degrees will take on more responsibility because they can perform more or less the same function for 1/2-1/3 the cost.
And the US has the highest % of GDP spent on healthcare of any developed nation. so i dont think that gov. intervention is automatically a bad thing in regards to cutting cost.
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Lao Tzu
New member
MattTheSkywalker said:
i'm pretty sure they get the same drugs we do. Their government is just able to negotiate a lower price. Not only that but pharma companies only spend about 13% of their budgets on R&D, they make a 22% profit margin too. Most other companies make 3% profits.
And alot of the new drugs are just newer drugs for illnesses that already have a class of drugs for them. they are offering new drugs that do what pre-existing drugs already do for 5x the price. Thats not to say there are not improvements but a reasonable amount of the time there are already a large group of drugs for the condition the new drug was invented for.
nordstrom said:
Yes. Once a company's patent for a drug expires and they have to compete with generic brands, they will make a new drug that often essentially does the same thing but for a much higher price. I assume they have a contract or something with certain doctors to prescribe the new drug. They're greedy bastards. They recoup all the money they did on research by having a patent on the drug for 10 years. This is the assumption that I have and I believe it's correct.
nordstrom said:
so youre going to suck the health care industry into more of a black hole of competition for cheap labor. MD's pay their dues. nurses dont to the same degree.
biteme said:
wouldnt you want to recieve under the table money if you were a physician and you were constantly fearing for your job from some advanced practice nurse who has several years less training than you, but will work for cheaper.
hey lets turn our entire health care industry into illegal alien labor, heck every other industry is going that way. will you work for a pile of dog crap, or at least a pile only half as big as that guys? of course you will.
nordstrom said:
riiight, i believe those stats, especially with physicians being forced to go from patient to patient in minutes, hurry diagnoses and give more and more of their hands on time to others. think about it this way...
can you more accurately deduce something having been there, or looking at things on a chart like... BP slightly elevated, urine slightly alkalinic with high Na + concentrations.
by God i would say they were in metabolic or respiratory alkalosis. with a hurried diagnosis like that, a physican in my opinion would be more likely to assume that respiratory alkalosis is also present, without looking at an arterial blood gas analysis. why? bc it can be a compensatory process metabolic alkalosis, easy to assume, correct. possibly a bad assumption, yes. with having to meet quotas and see certain amounts of patients, of course youre going to assume things.
another fact you are seemingly forgetting is that advanced practice nurses are not put under the same scrutiny as physicians, the ANA is not up to date on its policies for APN's and the regulations on APN's are state by state. if they dont have to see as many patients, and have a physician looking over their shoulder correcting mistakes, of course they are going to make less mistakes.
RAINA where are you?
MattTheSkywalker said:
im sure to some degree that the info ive recieved is skewed the other way, but in a conservative part of the USA, i learned in med sociology that the negative aspects of canadian subsidized healthcare are greatly overstated. i can point you to some journal articles that would indicate that same phenomena, but im sure youve read plenty of them given your chosen profession
Lao Tzu
New member
juicedmullet said:
no nurses don't pay the dues that doctors do. however a BSN with a 2 year grad degree deserves some credit, even if its not the credit an MD deserves.
The reality is in the US we spend 15% of GDP on healthcare and healthcare costs are increasing at about 2-6x the rate of inflation. Plus medicaid/medicare spend about 45% of all healthcare dollars in the US. cutting corners will become more & more necessary and the mentality that a 300k doctor is a god and a 60k physicians assistant or nurse practitioner is incompetent is a myth. I went to the local health clinic to get some vaccinations a month ago. they had no MD on staff, jsut some RNs, LPNs and a nurse practitioner. The cost of the vaccines was 1/3 what it would've cost if i'd gone to an MD to have them done. things like that will probably become more common.
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nordstrom said:
Nord,
The regulatory controls on th drugs they have are far less stringent.
Many of the drugs they have are the same, but there is a massive black and gray market there as well. Drugs marked for export form Canada are never exported, instead sold to Canda and Americans as if they were the original American drug. These drugs are usually formulated entirely differently
This is rampant.
JuicedMullet -
Socialized healthcare is a otouchy issue. Just look at the way it is adminsitered over there: do they have gateway docs, etc. every doc I know - and I know hundreds, tells me we have teh best system....not all American docs either.
Socialzied health care works for many basic conditions, but no one dies from a broken leg. Advanced treatments are where these countries really suck; transplants etc.
javaguru
Banned
An interesting study conducted a few years back compared Canadian treatment for cardiac patients(diet, exercise, drugs) to the American system which adds expensive surgery to the above mixture and found no difference in survival rates. I guess that I'm just pissed off my health care costs are influenced by all the fat ass grease disposals I see every day.
JavaGuru said:
Well, the thing about those studies is that they are so biased to whatever agenda the group has.
My stories don't have statistical weight, they are anecdotal from doctors who attend a lot of the pharma meetings I am invovled in.
javaguru
Banned
Everyone has an agenda, including doctors, that's why we have peer reviewed articles and accepted methods for conducting studies. Admittedly, these can still be manipulated just like the FDA drug approval process. I do know that mahor surgery is a VERY traumatic procedure and IMO performing it on the average 70 year is often more detrimental than helpful from what I've seen in my own relatives.
Concerning doctor's agendas. My ex-wife's uncle is an Orthopod and he brought up steroids and joint damage during one of our discussions. He basically said that having spoken with the Orthopod of a pro team at a conference AAS use was the primary cause of joint damage and career ending injuries in NFL players. I asked him how often he gave cortisone injections to his patients, his answer was once every six months. I then asked him why not more frequently, "because frequent cortisone injections cause joint degeneration." I then informed him it wasn't uncommon for injured players to be given weekly cortisone injections and pain killers to continue to play and asked him if the orthopod brought that up. I think he got my point.
Concerning doctor's agendas. My ex-wife's uncle is an Orthopod and he brought up steroids and joint damage during one of our discussions. He basically said that having spoken with the Orthopod of a pro team at a conference AAS use was the primary cause of joint damage and career ending injuries in NFL players. I asked him how often he gave cortisone injections to his patients, his answer was once every six months. I then asked him why not more frequently, "because frequent cortisone injections cause joint degeneration." I then informed him it wasn't uncommon for injured players to be given weekly cortisone injections and pain killers to continue to play and asked him if the orthopod brought that up. I think he got my point.
nordstrom said:
administration of drugs/medication doesnt always need to be done by a doctor, but if you had a complication due to the vaccine i think it would be far more appropriate to have a doctor on standby
there is a large amount of medical care that can be covered by nurses, and if they receive specific training they can be EXTREMELY good at their job, but ultimately you still need the doctors there, all those years of medical training were given for a reason. remove them and you ask for trouble. bear in mind who decides the medication that is administered as well. i;ve been at a hospital where junior doctors were taken ourt of the equation and replaced with lots of nurses and it didnt work nearly as well
as for the 50% figure....i doubt its that high....but bear in mind the sheer number of differential diagnosis there are for diseases....and how easily they can be made, it boggles the mind. differentiating between a bad viral infection and leukaemia can be extremely difficult for your average doctr, especially of all he see;s are the viral infections. people don;t realise how easy it is, but still somehow expect 100% efficiency from someone who is human trying to diagnose another human....the error that can ceep in is astounding.
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Your nurses of the future.
what really stinks is that now every chem class that i take is the kind of class where a 56 is an A, so im going to be pulling my teeth out about my gpa for a year and a half while i get biochem I, II and quant out of the way, and maybe an independent study over the pharmacokinetetics of several common drugs for elective credit. (my biochem teacher is very interested in that stuff)
juicedmullet said:
what really stinks is that now every chem class that i take is the kind of class where a 56 is an A, so im going to be pulling my teeth out about my gpa for a year and a half while i get biochem I, II and quant out of the way, and maybe an independent study over the pharmacokinetetics of several common drugs for elective credit. (my biochem teacher is very interested in that stuff)
Lord_Suston
New member
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Your nurses of the future.
I hope you are joking, Most Rn's I work with had a Bachelors about 70%, and the others Associate degress. But the trend is changing due to the average age of a nurse is in their 40-50's. I will give some credit for the knowledge they have but ultimately they have not been trained to diagnose and administer drugs. Saying they should because of experience is very risky because of the lack of experience with drug interactions. I have worked with nurses right out of school and they need to train for at least six months untill they get the swing of things; from medications, critical care situation, paperwork ect... That time is just to get accustomed to nursing, yet many say let them prescribe. That is why there are NP's they need a masters and have a year in critical care and take pharacology classes.
LPN's get very little respect due to fact they go to school for 14 months or so and can't even give IV meds, they are a real burden for other RN's
Most RN's in my former hospital were just lazy, they were there for 20 years or so adn thought they had tenure. So they would sit around and complain all day while the aids did the grunt work and the docs re-checked their work to make sure no one keeled over from some missed labs the nurse forgot to get.
Mis-diagnosis- most are due to the huge amount of doctors we import from other nations each year, The command of english is always in question and have been shown to one of the major causes of mis-diagnosis.
Mullet; I wish my professor were that leanient, no curve ever, out of a class of 128 in biochem 1 only 62 passed, roughly 45 got d's and only 3 got a's. I was lucky enough to get out of their alive
nordstrom said:
I hope you are joking, Most Rn's I work with had a Bachelors about 70%, and the others Associate degress. But the trend is changing due to the average age of a nurse is in their 40-50's. I will give some credit for the knowledge they have but ultimately they have not been trained to diagnose and administer drugs. Saying they should because of experience is very risky because of the lack of experience with drug interactions. I have worked with nurses right out of school and they need to train for at least six months untill they get the swing of things; from medications, critical care situation, paperwork ect... That time is just to get accustomed to nursing, yet many say let them prescribe. That is why there are NP's they need a masters and have a year in critical care and take pharacology classes.
LPN's get very little respect due to fact they go to school for 14 months or so and can't even give IV meds, they are a real burden for other RN's
Most RN's in my former hospital were just lazy, they were there for 20 years or so adn thought they had tenure. So they would sit around and complain all day while the aids did the grunt work and the docs re-checked their work to make sure no one keeled over from some missed labs the nurse forgot to get.
Mis-diagnosis- most are due to the huge amount of doctors we import from other nations each year, The command of english is always in question and have been shown to one of the major causes of mis-diagnosis.
Mullet; I wish my professor were that leanient, no curve ever, out of a class of 128 in biochem 1 only 62 passed, roughly 45 got d's and only 3 got a's. I was lucky enough to get out of their alive
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