Who trains abs for strength & hardness? (Martial artists answer!)

[DaMan]

This is a non-bb question, but since I'm on a cycle right now I'm allowing myself to put it on this board

I'm at a point where I can see abs and I can see that they actually look pretty good. Downside is that a) they're fucking WEAK as far as taking hits goes (I kickbox) and b) they're fucking weak as far as strength and endurance go. I took a 30-minute abs class at my gym (ever seen the chicks in those things) and was literally the second-worst person out of like 25, worst being the token fat guy. Every girl in there could do more reps than me, had better form, etc etc.

I don't know if it's a matter of endurance or what, but I'd like to hear how guys with hardcore abs - and I don't mean just good looking, I mean rock-solid and crazy endurance - train. So far I've had the best luck with 4-5x/week (I know, "overtraining", but it's working better than 1x/week).

Sorry for the incoherent rant, but I posted this because I was watching this dude with kickass abs at my gym do a pullup, get his legs in the air (parallel to the ground), hold them there for 30s, and then work his obliques by twisting the legs first to the right, then left, and so on - still keeping them parallel to the ground. Hard to visualize but looked fucking hardcore (and I wanna be hardcore!), and guess who got the hot blond chick's phone number that day. No, not me

So let's hear it - frequency, exercises, etc etc etc.

 

[Andy13]

This is a non-bb question, but since I'm on a cycle right now I'm allowing myself to put it on this board

I'm at a point where I can see abs and I can see that they actually look pretty good. Downside is that a) they're fucking WEAK as far as taking hits goes .

Son, block the kick by bringing your knee up and your elbow down!

You're abs weren't designed to take beatings... shins, yes.

 

[ABall]

This is a non-bb question, but since I'm on a cycle right now I'm allowing myself to put it on this board

I'm at a point where I can see abs and I can see that they actually look pretty good. Downside is that a) they're fucking WEAK as far as taking hits goes (I kickbox) and b) they're fucking weak as far as strength and endurance go. I took a 30-minute abs class at my gym (ever seen the chicks in those things) and was literally the second-worst person out of like 25, worst being the token fat guy. Every girl in there could do more reps than me, had better form, etc etc.

I don't know if it's a matter of endurance or what, but I'd like to hear how guys with hardcore abs - and I don't mean just good looking, I mean rock-solid and crazy endurance - train. So far I've had the best luck with 4-5x/week (I know, "overtraining", but it's working better than 1x/week).

Sorry for the incoherent rant, but I posted this because I was watching this dude with kickass abs at my gym do a pullup, get his legs in the air (parallel to the ground), hold them there for 30s, and then work his obliques by twisting the legs first to the right, then left, and so on - still keeping them parallel to the ground. Hard to visualize but looked fucking hardcore (and I wanna be hardcore!), and guess who got the hot blond chick's phone number that day. No, not me

So let's hear it - frequency, exercises, etc etc etc.

Bro -- there are allot of things you can do. Personally, every time I train, which is 4 times a week at the Thai box gym and two days in the weight room, we do intense ab work EVERY time we train. I don't know how you train, but it seems strange to me when people go through a "training session" and don't do ab work, hit a pad or bag, or really burn themselves out (I am not saying this is you but it all falls into the same category in my books). Here are SOME options if you really have no idea:

1) Regular sit ups (do 50);
2) From #1, lift your feet 4 inches off the ground (do 50 more);
3) From #1 position lift your knees up so they are parallel to the floor (do 50 more);
4) "Six inch leg raises". Lie on your back with your head a few inches off the ground and your hands under your ass (not completely but slightly). While keeping your legs straight, lift them up to a 90 degree angle and then bring them back down (do not ever let your legs touch the ground once you have started your reps). Once you have done 25, hold your legs 6 inches off the ground and hold them there for around 25 seconds.

DO NOT REST BETWEEN THESE!!!! Next:

5) Get a friend/training partner, have him drop a medicine ball onto your stomach AND/OR stand about 3/4 of a meter apart and throw the medicine ball into each other's gut for 2 minutes;
6) Put your gloves on. Have your training partner punch you relatively hard in the stomach repeatedly(let him know how much you can take) for 2 minutes. As the time goes on, he should speed up and hit a little harder until the 2 minute mark;
7) At the gym, you can lie on the decline bench with a 35 or 45 or whatever is good for you and do sit ups that way;
8) Be intense and don't quite early.



Hope this helps,


A

 

[liquidmuscle]

i am training for a fight in Nov and use a 8lb medicine ball and allow my workout buddy drop it on my stomach,,i do 3 sets at 25reps each then i do 100 situps, 30seconds worth of matt slaps..rest 30seconds and do 30seconds more of matt slaps and that should get ya nice and hard

 

[liquidmuscle]

Re: Re: Who trains abs for strength & hardness? (Martial artists answer!)

Son, block the kick by bringing your knee up and your elbow down!

You're abs weren't designed to take beatings... shins, yes.

and that too

 

[DaMan]

Re: Re: Who trains abs for strength & hardness? (Martial artists answer!)

Bro -- there are allot of things you can do. Personally, every time I train, which is 4 times a week at the Thai box gym and two days in the weight room, we do intense ab work EVERY time we train. I don't know how you train, but it seems strange to me when people go through a "training session" and don't do ab work, hit a pad or bag, or really burn themselves out (I am not saying this is you but it all falls into the same category in my books). Here are SOME options if you really have no idea:

1) Regular sit ups (do 50);
2) From #1, lift your feet 4 inches off the ground (do 50 more);
3) From #1 position lift your knees up so they are parallel to the floor (do 50 more);
4) "Six inch leg raises". Lie on your back with your head a few inches off the ground and your hands under your ass (not completely but slightly). While keeping your legs straight, lift them up to a 90 degree angle and then bring them back down (do not ever let your legs touch the ground once you have started your reps). Once you have done 25, hold your legs 6 inches off the ground and hold them there for around 25 seconds.

DO NOT REST BETWEEN THESE!!!! Next:

5) Get a friend/training partner, have him drop a medicine ball onto your stomach AND/OR stand about 3/4 of a meter apart and throw the medicine ball into each other's gut for 2 minutes;
6) Put your gloves on. Have your training partner punch you relatively hard in the stomach repeatedly(let him know how much you can take) for 2 minutes. As the time goes on, he should speed up and hit a little harder until the 2 minute mark;
7) At the gym, you can lie on the decline bench with a 35 or 45 or whatever is good for you and do sit ups that way;
8) Be intense and don't quite early.



Hope this helps,


A

SWEET.

Thanks bro. Yeah I do abwork every time I kickbox but sessions are usually an hour and the 5-10 mins of abwork we get to squeeze in just aren't always enough, unlike those 30-minute classes at the gym which are really good. Your routine is good though, I'm gonna give it a shot on my next "off" day from kickboxing

I also just wanted reassurance that it's ok to train abs 4-5x/wk... I keep hearing 1-2x/week and I just feel like that's not enough.

 

[Zyglamail]

Re: Re: Who trains abs for strength & hardness? (Martial artists answer!)

Son, block the kick by bringing your knee up and your elbow down!

You're abs weren't designed to take beatings... shins, yes.

I totally agree! Im a close style fighter myself and always have fun with the guys that like to kick, the top of their knees invariably got took a beeting from my elbows and the force of the knee comming up was always good at helping to propel my hand to their face

On a side not, I train abs for strength, 3-5 sets of 3-5 reps. If you can do more than that add some weight or find a new exercise.

 

[DaMan]

Re: Re: Who trains abs for strength & hardness? (Martial artists answer!)

Son, block the kick by bringing your knee up and your elbow down!

You're abs weren't designed to take beatings... shins, yes.

Bro tell me that's NOT how you rationalize not working out abs. One of my personal favorites is an offensive push kick to the solarplexus. Sure you don't make it 80% of the time, but the other 20% make it worth it :-D

On another note, who uses weighted ab machines? (i.e. the ones where you hold on to those two bars right above your shoulder kinda like a jet-pack...) - just curious what y'all think about them, nothing else. I just joined a gym that has them... seems like good variety.

 

[Parabellum]

Re: Re: Re: Who trains abs for strength & hardness? (Martial artists answer!)

the force of the knee comming up was always good at helping to propel my hand to their face

Hell yeah, damn. UMmmmm you kinda knocked yourself out.

 

[Andy13]

Re: Re: Re: Who trains abs for strength & hardness? (Martial artists answer!)

Bro tell me that's NOT how you rationalize not working out abs. One of my personal favorites is an offensive push kick to the solarplexus. Sure you don't make it 80% of the time, but the other 20% make it worth it :-D

On another note, who uses weighted ab machines? (i.e. the ones where you hold on to those two bars right above your shoulder kinda like a jet-pack...) - just curious what y'all think about them, nothing else. I just joined a gym that has them... seems like good variety.

YES! That upward thrust kick was exactly what I was also going to say..

Now, when you talk about training abs, there is more than one thing you are training for..

Are you training for functionality?
If so, you need to do dynamic instability exercises.. The machine abdominal crunch is awesome for thick, rock-hard abs, but it doesn't really teach you how to 'use' your abs as you would in the sport..

Have you heard the claim (theory?) that the bench press doesn't help in athletics?
I don't know that it DOESNT help... But it isn't nearly as of the importance as, say, grass drills for football..
When you are working a muscle group, and get further and further isolated (ie, from dumbells to a machine) you reduce the functional effectiveness as well... I used to use the analogy of picking up a gallon of paint to get people off machines and on to less stable exercises.. I would say "when you use your biceps muscle to pick up a gallon of paint in real life, is there this pad there for you to rest the back of your arm on and sides to keep your arm from sliding like there is on this machine?" The answer is "no."

Machines are great for bodybuilders.. But bodybuilders don't train for the same reasons as atheletes do.

What I'm saying, I guess, is don't train abs to take kicks; train abs to give kicks.

Andy