Which is more safe winny or tren?

[BIGNUTT]

First off I am on a great diet and I exercise 5 times a week.

I know this seems stupid, but I am consider two different cycles. I pretty much need to lose fat before getting on test I think. I am at about 30%bf and have been told I need to really be at like 12-10%. I have also been told Winny/Clen cycle is a good one to help me lose the bf. But, of course I have also been told that test. w/ tren will cut pretty good too. So thats where I am at with this. Its either 500mg. test ew for 10wks. w/ tren or winny w/ clen for 8wks. I want to lose bf more than gain, but I do want to gain muscle asap.

Which is safer for a 1st time cycle tren or winny?

 

[ippon]

Here's my thoughts.. However, keep in mind that I have never personally tried clen, I've just seen teammates use it.

You won't much, if any, muscle while taking clen.. You would lose a lot of fat, though. With tren, there's no doubt you'll gain a good bit of muscle, and most people lose a good bit of bodyfat (if for no other reason than because you're gaining muscle and not gaining any fat.. ratio changes, etc.. but you'll probably actually lose some fat too).

 

[ippon]

Sorry -- I just realized I didn't answer the question at all. I simply analyzed what the two would do. I'm an idiot.

If this is your first cycle, you might be better off with just test.. as long as you're sticking with something like test prop (doesn't aromatize too bad) it would definitely help you maintain or even gain muscle while losing body fat.

Either way -- stay away from the clen if safety is a top priority. In my opinion, anyway.

If you're dead-set on stacking the test with something go with tren/test.. you may want to lower the dosages some if this is your first cycle -- I'm sure someone else will have more info.

 

[DaddyX]

well sorry to tell you bro but the only real way to lose body fat is by diet and proper training. Winny will do nothing for losing bodyfat. clen is a fat burner but again without proper diet it is shit. nobody and i repeat nobody should use winny if they are over i would say 12 %. fina has been know to raise body temp possibly increasing ones metabolism or something like that. however if you are at 30% body fat you really dont need drugs. CARDIO/DIET/TRAINING is all you need. shit i think it would be dangerous to use steroids if your obese

 

[magman1]

im with daddy saying that winny is worthless in ur situation...too high bf...you should easily be able to naturally slim down from 30% thru diet and cardio...then use AAS when it gets too hard to keep going

 

[athlete0185]

for a first cycle i think prop/tren would be a bitch. they both hurt like hell and ed or eod injections probably aren't the best for a first timer. same goes with winny. id say just go test only cycle. get a diet in check, lift those weights, do some cardio, and i think youll slim down quicker than you think. btw ive done clen before and the sides arent worth the result. your heart is beating through your ribcage all the time, your shaking, you get muscle cramps, and i personally felt disassociated.

 

[DaddyX]

for a first cycle i think prop/tren would be a bitch. they both hurt like hell and ed or eod injections probably aren't the best for a first timer. same goes with winny. id say just go test only cycle. get a diet in check, lift those weights, do some cardio, and i think youll slim down quicker than you think. btw ive done clen before and the sides arent worth the result. your heart is beating through your ribcage all the time, your shaking, you get muscle cramps, and i personally felt disassociated.

not bad advice but the guy says he is at 30% body fat. nobody that high needs to even think about a cycle

 

[marshallmadman]

Your big question was....Which is more safe, Winstrol, or Tren? The answer to that question is Winstrol without a doubt. I know I'm going to get blasted on this board for this, but here goes anyway. Let's just say I may have tried everything mentioned in all of these posts. Due to unavailability issues, I have been clean for over a year. I recently tried VPX's liquid 1-test, and I can tell you that the results have totally amazed me. I am in no way associated with any supplement company, before you point the finger. In my opinion, it has worked a ton better than the IP Winstrol tabs that I may have tried last year. I don't mean just a little better, I mean noticibly better. Granted, the diet that I used differed in both instances, but that isn't really a factor. Right now I'm doing a CKD diet, and it usually wastes me down to nothing (in a bad way). I lose a ton of muscle, and I look really flat. I am 4 1/2 weeks in, I've lost a ton of bodyfat, and my bodyweight is very nearly the same. I guess that my point is that you should try some legal alternatives before you jump to the "dark side". There are some really good fat burning supplements out there these days too. Good luck.

 

[BIGNUTT]

not bad advice but the guy says he is at 30% body fat. nobody that high needs to even think about a cycle

Not even a test only cycle?

Since most including me believe it would help burn fat, plus make more muscle to burn more fat, and make more muscle to out weigh the muscle lost from low carb./high protien diet. How is test bad at higher bf% person?

I am 300lbs. 6'4" and already have alot of muscle. I am on a great cutter diet and I exercise like mad. I am losing eight so I would be probably 275lbs. by the time I have everthing I need to start the cycle.

AND I am not sure I am 30%bf, just a guess. For an exampl I am 300lbs. and wear a size 40 pants, but I have a very large bone structure.

 

[RADAR]

Health wise i would consider getting the bodyfat down would be your first priority before even considering gear.
I would get your diet in check and for a lil help get some T-rex from the AF Store.

RADAR

 

[BIGNUTT]

I have thought about getting t-rex, yohimburn, and aaa the glutamine pills.

I may go ahead and get my gear and use it when I get a little less bf, maybe 15%.

 

[DaddyX]

Not even a test only cycle?

Since most including me believe it would help burn fat, plus make more muscle to burn more fat, and make more muscle to out weigh the muscle lost from low carb./high protien diet. How is test bad at higher bf% person?

I am 300lbs. 6'4" and already have alot of muscle. I am on a great cutter diet and I exercise like mad. I am losing eight so I would be probably 275lbs. by the time I have everthing I need to start the cycle.

AND I am not sure I am 30%bf, just a guess. For an exampl I am 300lbs. and wear a size 40 pants, but I have a very large bone structure.

no, not even a test only cycle. not to be a jerk but you are concidered obese. please take my advice and bring your bf down naturally. its going to be much safer considering the state your body is at right now. goodluck, remember just eat right, train smart and it will come down in a short time. yes you could try t-rex also

 

[Fukkenshredded]

And now for the actual answer.

Tren, mg for mg, is much safer than winstrol.

There is very little evidence supporting the notion that trenbelone is even moderately toxic. True, there are anecdotal reports of kidney stress, but logic simply does not place trenbelone at the root of the issue there. A more likely culprit is oxidized methylcellulose, or even excessive BA or BB.

In any event, trenbelone exerts minimal stress on the liver (if any), and has a less profound impact on HDL/LDL ratios.

Moreover, tren does not dehydrate the body as dramatically as winstrol, nor is the hematocrit level impacted as severely.

Winstrol is a very harsh drug, contrary to popular belief.

Those who have run both and gotten regular bloodwork will corroborate this position, with very few exceptions.

 

[DaddyX]

And now for the actual answer.

Tren, mg for mg, is much safer than winstrol.

There is very little evidence supporting the notion that trenbelone is even moderately toxic. True, there are anecdotal reports of kidney stress, but logic simply does not place trenbelone at the root of the issue there. A more likely culprit is oxidized methylcellulose, or even excessive BA or BB.

In any event, trenbelone exerts minimal stress on the liver (if any), and has a less profound impact on HDL/LDL ratios.

Moreover, tren does not dehydrate the body as dramatically as winstrol, nor is the hematocrit level impacted as severely.

Winstrol is a very harsh drug, contrary to popular belief.

Those who have run both and gotten regular bloodwork will corroborate this position, with very few exceptions.

yeah i got a little off topic good answer

 

[BIGNUTT]

no, not even a test only cycle. not to be a jerk but you are concidered obese

No offense, it will help me keep losing weight.

What is t-rex?

 

[lartinos]

Yeah, I know what you're saying Daddyx. But..... if I was as fat as him and it was clearly a gentic thing where losing bodyfat was impossible, I'd jump on prop+tren whilst cycling T3 and clen. Maybe even throw in an af blitz pack as well. That combo is guranteed to drop alot of fat.

 

[DaddyX]

No offense, it will help me keep losing weight.

What is t-rex?

hey dude, if you weigh that much you probably do have alot of muscle. T-Rex is thermorexin from the AF store. its a fat burnwer and people love it. bro if you could cut up a bit you could be huge, a good huge goodluck buddy

 

[BIGNUTT]

Hey man I appreciate it.

I think now is a good time to leave this topic alone, but i have been getting very different remarks on this same topic:

http://www.cuttingedgemuscle.com/Forum/showthread.php?s=&postid=79210#post79210

Look on the 2nd page, please don't start anything. I am just wondering why two views can be sooo different. I am healthy by the way, well maybe the blood test lied?

 

[BIGNUTT]

hey dude, if you weigh that much you probably do have alot of muscle.

I guess Im 21, with 18" Bi's (not pumped) and I bench 450lbs., I don't squat much anymore, but I assure you my legs are big. My calves on the other hand are bigger than alot of pros (I have a 2.5" shelf sticking out of my leg, lol!)

 

[DaddyX]

LOL, JGUNS over there is an idiot. he thinks pro bodybuilders get over 30% bodyfat in the offseason. haha, he needs to really start researching before giving any advice. does he even know what 30% BF is. Ronnie coleman in the off season still has a visible six pack as well as alot of pros do. im not going to start anything but if he think he will smoke any vet here in a debate he is sadly mistaken. o well, try out what you think is best for yourself. BTW i didnt read alot of that i just skimmed through what numbnuts said

 

[BIGNUTT]

LOL!

I think I am going to hold off a little while, I understand what you mean by being 300lbs at 30%+ or-bf. I cn honestly say t would be safer to do it when I am at lower bf%.

Thanks

 

[AleaveR]

Heres some input from someone in a similar situation. I let myself get up tp abput 33% BF. I started eating a lot better and wroking out, also cardio 3 x week and in 5 months I got my bodyfat down from 33 to 24.5%.

At this point I talked to a family Dr who treats HIV patients with AAS and he uses himself and asked him if I could benefit from using them. He said I could and before I started, he had me do a series of blood test, one of which showed that I had naturally low testosterone. He actually feels that the low test levels could have been contributing to my obesity.

Anyways, on 10-12-03 I started a cycle of 200mg Deca and 250mg CYP EW for 12 weeks under the Dr's supervision (I frontloaded the Test @ 400mg weeks 1-2).

I have continued to maintain a clean diet and have actually uped my calories a little. Before I started the cycle I was eating about 180-200g protein/day but I have increased it since to about 250g. I stay away from high GI carbs and have continued to eat about 5-7 times per day. I am also supplementing with glucorell, fish oil, multi vitamin, flax oil, and g-plenish.

Right now I am in the 6 week of my cycle and I have gained about 8lbs but my bodyfat has gone down from 24.5 to 20.8% yesterday morning. My bench has increased about 55lbs and all my other lifts have increased as well.

Just my experience with AAS's.....

 

[dali]

Here's what I'd suggest:
Go with the test prop 100 eod and tren 75 eod for the first 4 weeks. Then switch to Winny 50 ed and clen (around 100-120mcg) for the duration. Remember clen only works on a calorie deficient diet. Lots of protein, lots of cardio. I think at 30%bf you'll probably need a couple cycles to achieve your goal of 10-12%bf. Be patient. Take a break of 6-8 weeks after your first cylce. During this time keep your diet clean and continue doing regular cardio. good luck bro.

 

[lartinos]

Good luck BIGGUTT. JK

 

[magman1]

Here's what I'd suggest:
Go with the test prop 100 eod and tren 75 eod for the first 4 weeks. Then switch to Winny 50 ed and clen (around 100-120mcg) for the duration. Remember clen only works on a calorie deficient diet. Lots of protein, lots of cardio. I think at 30%bf you'll probably need a couple cycles to achieve your goal of 10-12%bf. Be patient. Take a break of 6-8 weeks after your first cylce. During this time keep your diet clean and continue doing regular cardio. good luck bro.

yeah, and then what? just cuz this is the anabolic board, doesnt mean anabolics are always the answer...say u use a boatload of gear to get to 15%...then what? dnp? u can naturually cut down...use AAS to break ur genetic limit, and listen to someone who did not wait...me! and at 300lbs, ur blood pressure on a cycle will be through the roof...sounds like you have a lil muscle to spare tho

 

[laduc]

hey whats up

 

[BIGNUTT]

As of right now I am holding off on AAS, I am ordering the "Ultimite Fta Removal Kit" from the AF store, so hopefully that will help me out. I have lost 62lbs. in the past using just Xenadrine w/ ephedra, so I can do it again. Once I get to 250lbs. or so I am hitting the test.

Thanks for all the help.