This gyno makes no sense, please help

[dandeanuk]

Hi guys,

I'm hoping you can help me because I'm at a total loss.

I'm 40, I've been lifting for 20 years and this is my third cycle. I'm 5ft 10, 89kg and 18% bodyfat.

I've done no anabolic steroids for 2 years. And I've been taking propecia (finasteride) 1mg ED for 16 yrs for MPB and have had no sides and have a full head of hair.

First cycle was
500mg test enanthate for 12 weeks.
Felt tingling in the nipples early, hit the arimidex at 0.5mg ED and used nolva for 6 days to mop up the excess estrogen around the nipples. It fixed it, sorted it, carried on with arimidex for rest of cycle and did PCT with nolva and clomid. - no problems. Great Cycle.

Second cycle knew I was sensitive to gyno so no need to experiment with AI and started with 0.5mg Armidex everyday, same cycle as above no problems apart from water retention.

Current cycle
Test Enanthate 500mg per week 12 weeks
Arimidex 1mg a day from first pin
Anavar 60mg for 10 weeks, started at week 2

2 days after adding the Anavar I now have a very small but sore flat lump under each of my nipples, I hit it with 60 mg nolva on day 1, 60mg of nolva on day 2, and 40mg nolva today and it has definitely helped, but when the nolva wears off the pain comes back so today I started splitting the dose., which I've also reduced to 40mg.

Why has this happened? I'm on 1mg arimidex everyday so my estrogen levels are controlled, I don't look water retentive, this is different to the gyno symptoms i had on my first cycle as there was no tingling / sensitivity in the nipples. its just gone straight to small painful lumps under my nipple. I did 1mg or Arimidex ED this cycle because I wanted to reduce the water retention, and it's worked, I don't look anything like as bloated as I did on my previous cycles.

I was also doing 6ml of Saw Palmetto Tincture everyday to protect my prostate. I've now cut this out completely as I feel that using 2 DHT inhibitors may have caused my current problem. I have also dropped my propecia to 1mg EOD.

What should I do now? Up my arimidex? Keep taking nolvadex for the rest of the cycle? Your suggestions please....many thanks

 

[George Spellwin]

I think I would drop the test to 100mg every two weeks until you get this worked out. Are you sure your anti-e's are legit? Given the half life of testosterone, there's going to be a ton in your system for quite some time, so you can still have a good cycle and IMHO 12 weeks is too long anyway. With the 100mg every two weeks, your test will remain high so you won't crash.

What does everyone else think?

 

[dandeanuk]

George, thanks for your reply.

Yeah the Arimidex is legit, its from a pharmacy. Also I know its legit because it's really helped with my water retention.

And I thought 12 weeks of test enanthate 250ml twice a week was the normal / recommended dose and length of cycle.

Good news though, after 3 days of Nolvadex treatment the lumps which were pea sized have shrunk and the pain has reduced by 90%. I feel relieved. I will continue to run nolva for 5 days once symptoms have disappeared.

I really think that I created this problem by taking 2 strong DHT inhibitors. I was pretty much shutting down my DHT. So the small amount of estrogen I had in my body was causing me problems in the chest area as there was not enough DHT to tackle it.

I've cut out the SP, and will take the propecia once every third day. Hopefully when I stop the nolva the gyno symptoms wont come back.

 

[RamboStallone]

You are gyno prone that's for sure and what flared it up on this cycle is your "mislabeled" anavar. It's really dbol and at 60mgs a day for a gyno prone gyno, you're going to need to increase your AI dose some. Try 1mg ed.

 

[dandeanuk]

Thanks for your reply RamboStallone, yes taking 1mg propecia everyday has made me more prone to gyno on cycle.

I am already on 1mg Arimidex everyday, I have been since my first pin.

The anavar is legit, I trust my source and he's a great fan of anavar, he's on the same stuff as me right now, he's done it many times.

I've done dbol before so I know what it's like, big time water retention, big wet pumps, immediate strength increase.

This anavar is giving very little water retention, my pumps are dry, and I have veins popping out of veins, my vascularity is intense, everyday I notice new veins, I've been on it a week now and I've just started to feel its affects, my muscles are also very hard, nothing like dianabol.

I'm pretty convinced that me taking 2 DHT inhibitors I caused these problems.

 

[FlexManning]

Don't bother with saw palmetto. Seriously. It won't help any condition and it's possible it's even harmful. If you have reason to worry about your prostate beyond what propecia can do for your BPH, then talk your doctor into prescribing you Avodart or find a source.

I prefer exemestane for estrogen control because of the lack of a rebound effect which I feel can be beneficial to people who are gyno prone.

 

[dandeanuk]

Thanks for the reply FlexManning.

I wont be taking saw palmetto again, I was only taking it for 4 weeks to help with frequent night time visits to the toilet. I've already seen my doctor and have a referral to a urologist in a couple of weeks.

From what I read I shouldn't have taken it with propecia anyway. And from what what I've learnt recently, that combination should definitely not be used on cycle as it could lead to gyno even with an AI in place.

I will definitely look into using exemestane as opposed to anastrozole on my next cycle, thanks for your help.

 

[ALIN]

Thanks for the reply FlexManning.

I wont be taking saw palmetto again, I was only taking it for 4 weeks to help with frequent night time visits to the toilet. I've already seen my doctor and have a referral to a urologist in a couple of weeks.

From what I read I shouldn't have taken it with propecia anyway. And from what what I've learnt recently, that combination should definitely not be used on cycle as it could lead to gyno even with an AI in place.

I will definitely look into using exemestane as opposed to anastrozole on my next cycle, thanks for your help.

EVERY time I use saw palmetto ( and I wont ever again) it gives me
nasty gyno symptoms.

 

[dandeanuk]

Alin, thanks I completely agree, I wont be using it again either.

 

[dandeanuk]

It's funny how so many companies include Saw Palmetto in their on cycle protection like N2Guard. It's probably causing more problems than its solving...