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Thinking about experiementing with a short cycle
- Thread starter Spunky
- Start date
200mg/day?? That's 1400mg of unesterified Test a week. On a top of 50mg/day of dbol. He will need to take 2tabs of Arimidex daily, and still will be one bloated mofo...
In my personal opinion, 100mg/day of Suspension is better, especially if it's his first short cycle.
He can shoot 1000mg of Enanthate on day one, and add Fina 75mg/day.
In my personal opinion, 100mg/day of Suspension is better, especially if it's his first short cycle.
He can shoot 1000mg of Enanthate on day one, and add Fina 75mg/day.
I know I did the math. He has several cycles under his belt and I am not sure what you mean when you say it's his first short cycle. Why does that make a difference to a vet like Spunky?
Yes Spunky you can use 100mg/day. Of course you can, to me it's just a little light.
Yes Spunky you can use 100mg/day. Of course you can, to me it's just a little light.
I don't know what dosages Spunky used before in his cycles, and can only give suggestions and of course, ultimately, he will decide what's better for him after reading all our suggestions and being very experienced will make the right decision.
But, forgive me my assumptions if I'm wrong, I doubt that he used 1400mg of Suspension before in any of his regular cycles. And, IMO, that's what makes a difference and that's what I meant saying that he's new to short cycles. It just take a little different approache.
And I agree with you Ulter, that 700mg/week is light if it's only two weeks cycle, that's why I suggested using 1k of Enanthate on day one, and adding Fina to stack.
But, forgive me my assumptions if I'm wrong, I doubt that he used 1400mg of Suspension before in any of his regular cycles. And, IMO, that's what makes a difference and that's what I meant saying that he's new to short cycles. It just take a little different approache.
And I agree with you Ulter, that 700mg/week is light if it's only two weeks cycle, that's why I suggested using 1k of Enanthate on day one, and adding Fina to stack.
ulter u give me too much credit, hehe.. I don't consider myself a vet at all, but thanx anyways. The reason i was thinking about a short cycle is cuz im tired of all the post cycle tiredness, loss of strength and all that due to natural test levels shutting down. I don't rebond very well even when using clomid. Plus, the cost of a short cycle is way cheaper.. hehe =) I might try this instead of the other 10 week cycle I had planned out. Would Nolvadex be ok instead of armidex? Its way too expensive for me, but I can get Nolva no problems.
u give me too much credit, hehe.. I don't consider myself a vet at all, but thanx anyways. The reason i was thinking about a short cycle is cuz im tired of all the post cycle tiredness, loss of strength and all that due to natural test levels shutting down. I don't rebond very well even when using clomid. Plus, the cost of a short cycle is way cheaper.. hehe =) I might try this instead of the other 10 week cycle I had planned out. Would Nolvadex be ok instead of armidex? Its way too expensive for me, but I can get Nolva no problems.I have found that short cycles do not work any where near as well as longer cycles, I have tried both & think that 12 weeks cycles are perfect with 4 weeks off in between, works for me & all the top pro's. I think doing 3 different cycles in a 12 week period works really well though.
Guy
Guy
I would say wait, but I'm a fan of moderation. Your hormones are probably still trying to find their original equilibrium, getting back into their natural cycles. Too many frequent and rapid fluxuations in hormone levels is never good, confuses the body and throws it off its natural rhythm. I like imagining hormone levels like a flat plane with a few shifts in levels few and far between, instead of a zig zag of constant on and off cycling.
I treid the so called super short cycles as like every one else I am always looking to improve, I did 4 weeks of sus 250 3 times a week & 400mg of deca, as soon as I started feeling the gear kick in I had to come off, there are these so called experts who say do this & that. I see one of these guys at Gold's all the time, he says he is this expert yet he has never won anything that I know of & looks like a football player. But he is an expert all the same, I listen to people that do what they say & the results show. I am lucky that I am tight with most of the top pro's & they all laugh at all these experts saying do this & that. I would be interested in hearing from any one that found the short cycles effective as i have not meet one yet that tried it more than once or twice. When it comes to advice look at who it is coming from.
Hope this helps
Guy
Hope this helps
Guy
South of the border
New member
Hey guy,
How´s the weather in California these days?
I can understand that your 4 week sostenon-deca did not work very well as these items are long acting (better to be used for longer cycles).
The logic of the short cycles (2 weeks) is to use only fast acting compounds such as test prop, test suspension, dball tabs, ect. The idea is to load up on these compounds for 14 days and then get out (and limit the potential negative effects of steroids to your endocrine system). I have never tried it myself. Some people like them though.
How´s the weather in California these days?
I can understand that your 4 week sostenon-deca did not work very well as these items are long acting (better to be used for longer cycles).
The logic of the short cycles (2 weeks) is to use only fast acting compounds such as test prop, test suspension, dball tabs, ect. The idea is to load up on these compounds for 14 days and then get out (and limit the potential negative effects of steroids to your endocrine system). I have never tried it myself. Some people like them though.
The weather is always pretty good herethanks, I agree with the shorter acting stuff being used for short periods of time, but that is only really effective for pre comp the last 4 weeks or so , I use the quick acting stuff close to the show as they are out of your system quickly & you can get the growth benefits it provides as you need to look your best the day of the show, but to use these compounds in the offseason in only short cycles doesn't make sense to me as you do grow when you are on the quick acting stuff, but you also loose the fullness & benefits when you come off. To me this is a waste of time for the off season as you want to build quality muscle in the off season which I find can only be acheived & held doing longer cycles. pre comp is the time for the short cycles as that is the time you need an additional push in the lead up to the show. that is what I find has worked for me & the guys I work with.
GUY
GUY
Short cycles are not for everyone, and certainly not for guys who compete. It's more for people who more concern with their health and reproductive system.
The idea behind short cycles is that if steroids are used for not longer then 2 weeks, and by day 15th body is cleared from synthetic testosteron, only hypothalamus is suppressed, but not pituitery(in a matter of fact, it gets more sensitive) so the postcycle recovery is much faster then after 8-12 weeks cycle.
Of course, short cycle result in less gains, but it's much healthier and because of fast recovery practically all the gains stay.
A lot of guys, especially when they get older find that short cycles work very well for them, usually resulting in 4-8lb of keepable lean muscles,and it's not that bad.
The formula is 2 weeks on, 4 weeks off.
Usually user frontload with slightly longer ester(day one) and then keep using fast active compounds,like orals, prop, fina,suspension.
The idea behind short cycles is that if steroids are used for not longer then 2 weeks, and by day 15th body is cleared from synthetic testosteron, only hypothalamus is suppressed, but not pituitery(in a matter of fact, it gets more sensitive) so the postcycle recovery is much faster then after 8-12 weeks cycle.
Of course, short cycle result in less gains, but it's much healthier and because of fast recovery practically all the gains stay.
A lot of guys, especially when they get older find that short cycles work very well for them, usually resulting in 4-8lb of keepable lean muscles,and it's not that bad.
The formula is 2 weeks on, 4 weeks off.
Usually user frontload with slightly longer ester(day one) and then keep using fast active compounds,like orals, prop, fina,suspension.
liftingnjuicing
New member
Guy said:
ARE YOU THE REAL GUY GUNDRY????? I DOUBT IT FOR SOME REASON BUT ITS COOL IF YOU ARE!
Hey Liftingnjuicin,
I am Guy Grundy, not Guy Gundry, if you are after the first of the 2 then I am he, If I was going to pretend to be a bodybuilder I would have picked some one a little better than me, I would be either Flex Wheller or Kevin Levrone, but I am stuck being Guy Grundy, You can confirm that is me by going to my site www.fitnetusa.com email me & if I email you back saying hello Liftingnjuicin then you will know it's me. Other than that I am not sure how I can prove it. I love bodybuilding & I am dieting & cannot sleep so I come here & see if I can learn anything new or help any one else get on the right track. Take Care
Guy
I am Guy Grundy, not Guy Gundry, if you are after the first of the 2 then I am he, If I was going to pretend to be a bodybuilder I would have picked some one a little better than me, I would be either Flex Wheller or Kevin Levrone, but I am stuck being Guy Grundy, You can confirm that is me by going to my site www.fitnetusa.com email me & if I email you back saying hello Liftingnjuicin then you will know it's me. Other than that I am not sure how I can prove it. I love bodybuilding & I am dieting & cannot sleep so I come here & see if I can learn anything new or help any one else get on the right track. Take Care
Guy
vexed
New member
Back to the ol fangowangos?
If only animal was here... I will repost the fangowango cycles are now dead thread from the af hall of fame.
AAresearch
Registered: 11-14-2000 12:00 AM
Posts: 278
Fangowangos are now DEAD!
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Read the two studies in the ester post.
100mg of deca shut down people in 5 days and kept them down for up to 32 days from one shot!
The other study on suppression of the HPT axis shows that 250mg and 500mg/week caused shut down to ZERO, ZERO, ZERO, in 2 weeks! NANANANANA!
100mg/week of test caused shut down in 5-6 wks.
EOD!
Anarchy in the USA!
____________________________________________
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=PubMed&list_uids=6416111&dopt=Abstract
http://jpet.aspetjournals.org/cgi/content/full/281/1/93#F2
ulter said:
If only animal was here... I will repost the fangowango cycles are now dead thread from the af hall of fame.
Animal
AAresearch
Registered: 11-14-2000 12:00 AM
Posts: 278
Fangowangos are now DEAD!
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Read the two studies in the ester post.
100mg of deca shut down people in 5 days and kept them down for up to 32 days from one shot!
The other study on suppression of the HPT axis shows that 250mg and 500mg/week caused shut down to ZERO, ZERO, ZERO, in 2 weeks! NANANANANA!
100mg/week of test caused shut down in 5-6 wks.
EOD!
Anarchy in the USA!
____________________________________________
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=PubMed&list_uids=6416111&dopt=Abstract
http://jpet.aspetjournals.org/cgi/content/full/281/1/93#F2
Testosterone suppression of the HPT axis.
MacIndoe JH, Perry PJ, Yates WR, Holman TL, Ellingrod VL, Scott SD.
Department of Psychiatry, College of Medicine, University of Iowa, Iowa City, USA.
BACKGROUND: Although studies have demonstrated the suppression of normal gonadal function in the experimental setting, the specific mechanisms by which androgenic-anabolic steroids impact male gonadal function remain ill defined. Following 2 consecutive weekly injections of an identically appearing testosterone cypionate (TC) placebo, subjects were randomized to a TC dose of 100 mg/wk, 250 mg/wk, or 500 mg/wk. Following the last weekly injection of active agent the subjects received 12 consecutive weeks of TC placebo injections. RESULTS: Spermatogenesis was impaired by each of the doses of TC employed in this study, but the observed decreases in, sperm count were neither strictly dose dependent nor consistent between individuals treated with the same dose. Basal leuteinizing hormone (LH) and follicle stimulating hormone (FSH) became undetectable 2 weeks after the start of 250 and 500 mg/wk TC injections and were lost within 5 to 6 weeks of starting 100 mg doses. Pituitary gonadotropin responses to leutinizing hormone releasing hormone (LHRH) disappeared more slowly with FSH responses being lost 1 to 3 weeks after the loss of basal FSH activity. Leuteinizing hormone responses to LHRH appeared to be suppressed last, disappearing 4 to 6 weeks after FSH responses to LHRH. CONCLUSIONS: Exogenous testosterone-mediated inhibitory influences on the hypothalamic-pituitary-testicular axis were reversed following the cessation of drug treatment.
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That's full abstract Animal was talking about. If you read the whole thing, you will see that even hypothalamus is suppressed completely after two weeks but pituitery is not(it takes up to 3 weeks to do so) And that's the whole point of short cycles. It's not to avoid suppression, it's to make recovery fast and easy and as you can see from that study, if pituitery are not suppressed, then recovery of the whole axis will be much faster and easier.
So, fangowango cycles are not dead yet....
MacIndoe JH, Perry PJ, Yates WR, Holman TL, Ellingrod VL, Scott SD.
Department of Psychiatry, College of Medicine, University of Iowa, Iowa City, USA.
BACKGROUND: Although studies have demonstrated the suppression of normal gonadal function in the experimental setting, the specific mechanisms by which androgenic-anabolic steroids impact male gonadal function remain ill defined. Following 2 consecutive weekly injections of an identically appearing testosterone cypionate (TC) placebo, subjects were randomized to a TC dose of 100 mg/wk, 250 mg/wk, or 500 mg/wk. Following the last weekly injection of active agent the subjects received 12 consecutive weeks of TC placebo injections. RESULTS: Spermatogenesis was impaired by each of the doses of TC employed in this study, but the observed decreases in, sperm count were neither strictly dose dependent nor consistent between individuals treated with the same dose. Basal leuteinizing hormone (LH) and follicle stimulating hormone (FSH) became undetectable 2 weeks after the start of 250 and 500 mg/wk TC injections and were lost within 5 to 6 weeks of starting 100 mg doses. Pituitary gonadotropin responses to leutinizing hormone releasing hormone (LHRH) disappeared more slowly with FSH responses being lost 1 to 3 weeks after the loss of basal FSH activity. Leuteinizing hormone responses to LHRH appeared to be suppressed last, disappearing 4 to 6 weeks after FSH responses to LHRH. CONCLUSIONS: Exogenous testosterone-mediated inhibitory influences on the hypothalamic-pituitary-testicular axis were reversed following the cessation of drug treatment.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
That's full abstract Animal was talking about. If you read the whole thing, you will see that even hypothalamus is suppressed completely after two weeks but pituitery is not(it takes up to 3 weeks to do so) And that's the whole point of short cycles. It's not to avoid suppression, it's to make recovery fast and easy and as you can see from that study, if pituitery are not suppressed, then recovery of the whole axis will be much faster and easier.
So, fangowango cycles are not dead yet....
