THINKING about doing a 1st cycle, need advice please

[ireekofawesomeness]

Whats up everyone...I'm new to these boards, I post at MM.com also but I figured id come here for any AS advice, so here goes...
I turned 20 this July and am all natural at this point. I am 6'6 and 230 lbs, at around 11-12% bodyfat. I have been making decent gains for the past few months while, according to my trainer, actually slightly lowering my bf% (it was around 15 in April and I was 212) but I am still lacking the real mass I want. I spoke to a friend of mine who competes and he suggested I take a cycle of test (omnadren is the type I think) along with D-bol, and I would come down with Clomids and possibly a maintenance shot of test every 10 days after the main cycle. I have my doubts though for a few reasons, one being that I have heard I will lose much of my gains made once I come off w/o taking the maintenance shots, like almost 70% according to my friend, and it doesn't seem worth it to me if that is the case. Plus, the maintenance shots don't seem like the best idea to me anyway, because although I am FAR from an expert on steroids, I know damn well that it is of the utmost importance to go off of EVERYTHING for a while in order to not burn your receptors out or just generally f--k up your body. Despite this though, I do see some positives in the fact that i will make SOME better gains that I would naturally obviously, as I desperately want to add more mass onto my frame and I seem to be at another sticking point, even with my intense training and rigorous diet. I'd like any input possible here good or bad, as I am new to all of this and am trying to gain as much info on the subject as humanly possible. If anyone wants, i can also list my diet, training schedule, and the proposed cycle thatmy friend suggested to me (week by week regimen of what i'd be popping/shooting) Again, any help is greatly appreciated. Thanks

 

[Bulldog_10]

Well first off, do more research before you start this cycle...this is a good start though.

Second, your trainer is blowing sunshine up your ass. I doubt you went up 18 pounds while losing 4-5%bf in 5 months...it could happen, but it's doubtful. And if you're making those kinds of gains, no need for juice.

If you decide to do a cycle, DO NOT do those "maintenance" shots every 10 days after your cycle...I don't know where your buddy came up with that.

Do something like this:

Test............400mg/wk.............1-8
D-bol...........30mg/ED...............1-4
Clomid......................................12-14
Arimidex-----.25mg/ED..............1-14

 

[THE BOUNCER]

Well first off, do more research before you start this cycle...this is a good start though.

Second, your trainer is blowing sunshine up your ass. I doubt you went up 18 pounds while losing 4-5%bf in 5 months...it could happen, but it's doubtful. And if you're making those kinds of gains, no need for juice.

If you decide to do a cycle, DO NOT do those "maintenance" shots every 10 days after your cycle...I don't know where your buddy came up with that.

Do something like this:

Test............400mg/wk.............1-8
D-bol...........30mg/ED...............1-4
Clomid......................................12-14
Arimidex-----.25mg/ED..............1-14

listen to him bro, very good advice.

 

[Bulldog_10]

oh yeah, one more thing...that handle hs got to go!

 

[liquidmuscle]

when i had broken my humerous i was "on" so after i was put in a cast i was doing 200mgs every other week to keep whatever i had left...i must be honest it didnt work too well though

 

[ireekofawesomeness]

Well, the guy i go to to get trained isn't a typical trainer who i see weekly, he's actually a powerlifter who has his own business independent of the gym i work out and and stuff, I see him once or twice a month and he assesses me and helps me with my training routines, etc. I was extremely surprised and skeptical of his bodyfat readins as well, because like you said it seems unreasonable to make those gains. I have definitely gained some size and don't particularly look fatter, but I think my bf% was lower than 15% to begin with when he took that measurement. Well eithwer way I am glad the sentiment seems to be to avoid the maintenance shot, as it sounded pretty f'in dumb for someone like me to be doing in the first place.
And for Bulldog, this is the proposed cycle my friend had given me...I am going to show him what you told me and see what his response to it is, and I'll probably mention it to a few other older guys in my gym who know about this stuff. Anyways heres the cycle:
week 1- Test shots- Monday, Wednesday, Friday. 3 d-bol every day
week 2- same as week 1
week 3 - Test shots- Monday, Wednesday, Friday. 4 d-bol every day.
week 4- Test shots- Monday and Thursday. 4 d-bol every day
week 5- Test shots Monday and Thursday 5 d-bol every day
week 6- Test shots Monday and Thursday start lowering off d-bol (take 4 pills for 2 days, 3 for 2 days, 2 for 2 days and 1 for 2 days.)
weeks 7-12Monday and Thursday shots
13-15 1 shot on Monday


quantity 30 amps of test
153 d-bol tabs


again guys I am browsing this site and tryin to learn as much as i can, thanks for all the help...and I'm NOT changin my name!!!

 

[Bulldog_10]

Don't taper the test. And I wouldn't do 750mg/wk for a first cycle. I'd go with 500mg/wk tops...that's 2 shots of omna per week. Also, I don't think 15mg of dbol per day will do much for you...I'd up it to 20-25, and keep it the same the whole way through. If anything, start high, and taper down.

Your boy doesn't know as much as he thinks he does...get your info here, forget about local guys. You'll find everything you need here.

If your choices are my cycle vs. the one you just gave me...it's not even close...do the one I gave you.

 

[stonecold54]

BF

well what kind of bf testing was done, calipers suck 5-8% error, any of the cheap infared or scale type bf testers suck. go to this website www.bioanalogics.com if you want to see a good bf tester. The tester is very expensive, but hey it works. What else could be more important than to know what exactly is going on with your composition. you can make more informed adjustments with the correct information.

stonecold54

 

[ireekofawesomeness]

thebf testing was done with calipers on my upper back, side of my stomach, bicep, tricep, and then averaged...my trainer is nationally certified with the NSCA and swears his measurements are always within 1% of the tank meaning the water tank...hes highly qualified but his claims still seem a bit too good

Bulldog: I showed my friend your recommended cycle just to see what hed say, and he said for the D-bol i should start lower and gradually go up because my body will eventually need more, and also bc id want to make sure that i dont get any estrogenic side effects right off the bat...he said its better to do it this way rather than take an anti-estrogen off the bat because that will inhibit my gains... and he said as far as the test goes, i am front loading the test and then lowering it after 2-3 weeks of front loading...he also said hes never seen an 8 week test cycle and it was 'dumb'...this is what he had to say in comparison to your cycle...this is not meant to be a flame, i am just letting you see what he had to say so i can get your feedback as well..thanks

 

[Dr.M]

If you decide to do a cycle, DO NOT do those "maintenance" shots every 10 days after your cycle...I don't know where your buddy came up with that.

This is whats called abuse, let your body recoup when coming off the cycle.

 

[Dr.M]

he also said hes never seen an 8 week test cycle and it was 'dumb'

Bodyfat calipers are accurate, the elctronic stuff is innacurate unless your lucky that particular day. The underwater is also accurate if used correctly, but about $40 a test.

Never seen an 8 week test cycle? Give me a fuckin break, there are guys doign 16 weeks, some idiots even doing 6 months.

DBol is to kick start your cycle, don't taper it, just flat DROP it at the 4th or 5th week. Your friend has an interesting education of steroids, where he got his info I have no idea. Also, why are you injecting 3 times a week? What frigging type of test do they suggest you use?

I likewise agree, 750mg is a WASTE. I did 250mg a week starting at 220 pounds, and kept 14 solid pounds at the end of my cycle. You do not need doses that a 3rd or 4th cycle person uses, thats a waste of money and just ridiculous. 400-500 sounds plenty fine to me.

 

[Canuck4]

Well first off, do more research before you start this cycle...this is a good start though.

Second, your trainer is blowing sunshine up your ass. I doubt you went up 18 pounds while losing 4-5%bf in 5 months...it could happen, but it's doubtful. And if you're making those kinds of gains, no need for juice.

If you decide to do a cycle, DO NOT do those "maintenance" shots every 10 days after your cycle...I don't know where your buddy came up with that.

Do something like this:

Test............400mg/wk.............1-8
D-bol...........30mg/ED...............1-4
Clomid......................................12-14
Arimidex-----.25mg/ED..............1-14

Yep,
Bulldoggie knows what he's talking about bro

 

[Bulldog_10]

Never seen an 8 week test cycle? Give me a fuckin break, there are guys doign 16 weeks, some idiots even doing 6 months.

Holy shit! When I saw that I thought he eamnt that 8 weeks was too short! I forgot that he had a 6 week plan set up. Bro 8 weeks minimum...I WAS going to say 10, but keep it at 8 for now.

Seriously stinky...Get some arimidex if you can...it won't inhibit your gains, unless you like blowing up like a balloon for a couple months then losing it at the end. If you use an anti-e it will limit your gains to quality mass, no water.

As for the dbol, I'd keep it at the same dose the whole way through, if anything start high, and drop it down at the end...But I would just keep it constant. 30mg/ED looks good to me, and when you stop that, the test will be kicking in...and you'll cruise through your 8 weeks.

I'll say it one more time...

Test cyp........200mg/E5D..............1-8
D-bol.............30mg/ED................1-4
Clomid.........................................12-14
arimidex------.25mg/ED................1-14

I went with cyp because of the infrequent injections...omna has prop in it, so you'd have to inject every third day minimum, which would make your dose too high. So go with a long acting ester only...cyp or enanthate.

Let us know what you decide...and if you pick your pal's cycle, do mine next time and let me know how much better it is.

Bulldog

 

[Cro Magnon]

Follow Bulldog's advice. And use human grade test.

CM

 

[PatBateman]

thebf testing was done with calipers on my upper back, side of my stomach, bicep, tricep, and then averaged...my trainer is nationally certified with the NSCA and swears his measurements are always within 1% of the tank meaning the water tank...hes highly qualified but his claims still seem a bit too good

Bulldog: I showed my friend your recommended cycle just to see what hed say, and he said for the D-bol i should start lower and gradually go up because my body will eventually need more, and also bc id want to make sure that i dont get any estrogenic side effects right off the bat...he said its better to do it this way rather than take an anti-estrogen off the bat because that will inhibit my gains... and he said as far as the test goes, i am front loading the test and then lowering it after 2-3 weeks of front loading...he also said hes never seen an 8 week test cycle and it was 'dumb'...this is what he had to say in comparison to your cycle...this is not meant to be a flame, i am just letting you see what he had to say so i can get your feedback as well..thanks

your friend is a moron when it comes to gear then. listen to bulldog and be rewarded with a nice cycle or listen to your buddy. the only thing he got right in the post above is that anit-e's do inhibit gains, although it varies for everyone.

 

[serge]

Whats up everyone...I'm new to these boards, I post at MM.com also but I figured id come here for any AS advice, so here goes...
I turned 20 this July and am all natural at this point. I am 6'6 and 230 lbs, at around 11-12% bodyfat. I have been making decent gains for the past few months while, according to my trainer, actually slightly lowering my bf% (it was around 15 in April and I was 212) but I am still lacking the real mass I want. I spoke to a friend of mine who competes and he suggested I take a cycle of test (omnadren is the type I think) along with D-bol, and I would come down with Clomids and possibly a maintenance shot of test every 10 days after the main cycle. I have my doubts though for a few reasons, one being that I have heard I will lose much of my gains made once I come off w/o taking the maintenance shots, like almost 70% according to my friend, and it doesn't seem worth it to me if that is the case. Plus, the maintenance shots don't seem like the best idea to me anyway, because although I am FAR from an expert on steroids, I know damn well that it is of the utmost importance to go off of EVERYTHING for a while in order to not burn your receptors out or just generally f--k up your body. Despite this though, I do see some positives in the fact that i will make SOME better gains that I would naturally obviously, as I desperately want to add more mass onto my frame and I seem to be at another sticking point, even with my intense training and rigorous diet. I'd like any input possible here good or bad, as I am new to all of this and am trying to gain as much info on the subject as humanly possible. If anyone wants, i can also list my diet, training schedule, and the proposed cycle thatmy friend suggested to me (week by week regimen of what i'd be popping/shooting) Again, any help is greatly appreciated. Thanks

i would much rather see you run test only cycle for the first time aroung, if you insist on stacking then deca or eq would do you much better then dbol

500mg/test/week along with 400mg/deca or eq/week will be an awesome cycle which is surely to generate some nice and solid gains

do your clomid post cycle, keep your nutrition/rest/traing top notch and you will keep MOST of your gains, if not all of them

you dont need to bridge untill you blow way past your natural potential

 

[ireekofawesomeness]

a bit off topic, but I also had this suggested to me by someone and thought id run it by you guys...what about stacking test and finaplex?

 

[serge]

a bit off topic, but I also had this suggested to me by someone and thought id run it by you guys...what about stacking test and finaplex?

test/fina is another great cycle, but you have to shoot fina eod

 

[rodd45]

bulldog is right, your friend sounds like a moron. These guys here have been using juice and speak from experience. I did a similar cycle for my first as bulldog described and I only lost 4 out of 20 lbs to this day. Thats not 70%.

 

[serge]

bulldog is right, your friend sounds like a moron. These guys here have been using juice and speak from experience. I did a similar cycle for my first as bulldog described and I only lost 4 out of 20 lbs to this day. Thats not 70%.

any1 who still pyramids cycles thinking that by doing so he is restoring HPTA, is a fucking moron

 

[rodd45]

any1 who still pyramids cycles thinking that by doing so he is restoring HPTA, is a fucking moron

My thoughts exactlly, so why listen to him.

 

[ireekofawesomeness]

what is HPTA?

 

[kidkoala]

Hypothalamus Pituitary Testicular Axis

 

[serge]

Hypothalamus Pituitary Testicular Axis

in plain english, your natural testosterone production

 

[ireekofawesomeness]

well, i had a little problem with getting my omnadren so now i will be using aratest instead...

i have also decided to go for a test/fina stack as opposed to a dbol stack after doing a ton of searches on here and seeing what people had to say about each...

as of right now this will be my proposed cycle...how does it look?
-250mg aratest shot 2x a week Monday + Friday weeks 1-10
-75mg fina shot ED from weeks 4-11
-clomids, begin taking them 3 days after last fina injection and
take them for about 3 weeks

the only thing here im not sure of is the half-life of my test and if i am waiting too long or too short of a time to start the clomids in regards to that...so how does this look?

 

[gymrat]

Whats up everyone...I'm new to these boards, I post at MM.com also but I figured id come here for any AS advice, so here goes...

haha sorry i'm not replying to your question. I just wanted to say you have the best login name ever.
hahaha

 

[Racer-X99]

test/fina is another great cycle, but you have to shoot fina eod

Yes, I agree. I am running my first cycle about week 7 now. I am doing 75mg fina EOD and 500mg Enanth/week for about 10 weeks. It rocks. Strength is great and put on about fifteen pounds so far with next to no bloat. Didn't front load this time, but will next time. I wanted to see how I would react before I tossed too many things and levels into my body. Be patient and get ready to buy new clothes and work out like a maniac.

Test/fina is great. The EOD injections you get adjusted to. That is a small price to pay for the size and strength in my opinion.