There's No Such Thing As "Bridging."

[Nelson Montana]

You're either on or off.

"Bridging" is a theory started by a certain Meso guru whose rambings have been proven wrong on many occasions yet somehow, "bridging" was survived.

No wonder.

People like to hear what they want to hear. If you think that continuing to use gear with no supression or side effects and no loss of gains -- GREAT! But it doesn't work that way.

You can no easier recover through bridging than you can stop a leak in a boat by putting another hole in it to let the water out.

Deal with it.

 

[boston789]

I never believed in bridging either.

 

[monopoly19]

You're either on or off.

"Bridging" is a theory started by a certain Meso guru whose rambings have been proven wrong on many occasions yet somehow, "bridging" was survived.

No wonder.

People like to hear what they want to hear. If you think that continuing to use gear with no supression or side effects and no loss of gains -- GREAT! But it doesn't work that way.

You can no easier recover through bridging than you can stop a leak in a boat by putting another hole in it to let the water out.

Deal with it.

AM Dbol? I have never tried it, but some of the info makes logical sense to me.

Monopoly

 

[LAN T]

You're either on or off.

"Bridging" is a theory started by a certain Meso guru whose rambings have been proven wrong on many occasions yet somehow, "bridging" was survived.

No wonder.

People like to hear what they want to hear. If you think that continuing to use gear with no supression or side effects and no loss of gains -- GREAT! But it doesn't work that way.

You can no easier recover through bridging than you can stop a leak in a boat by putting another hole in it to let the water out.

Deal with it.

Don't know, don't care. Not too many "experts", and I use the term very loosely, agree on anything in this field.

 

[Nelson Montana]

AM Dbol? I have never tried it, but some of the info makes logical sense to me.

Monopoly

Specious thinking. It sounds good -- but it doesn't work.

The concept is that since d-bol is only active for about 20 hours, it'll be out of the system while you sleep, therfore you'll be "recovering." Even if that's so, taking it again the next morning will just put you back to square one. There will be no recovery.

There isn't a single documented case of anyone restoring their HPTA in this manner. Not that there needs to be a study to prove wheater a theory is sound, but this is one that seems pretty easy to validate. It won't happen because it can't.

This shouldn;t be confused with the mistaken notion that any amount of gear will shut you down. Dosage matters. But trying to move forward by taking steps backward is not the way to go.

 

[slat1]

You are either on or off. There is no inbetween!

 

[Anthony Roberts]

Don't know, don't care. Not too many "experts", and I use the term very loosely, agree on anything in this field.

Experts agree on 85-90% of the same things. Focus on that and not the 15-10% they don't agree on, and you'll be better off.

 

[Nelson Montana]

Don't know, don't care. Not too many "experts", and I use the term very loosely, agree on anything in this field.

True but those who really know what they're talking about tend to agree on many things if not everything. Two doctors may have differing opinions but they'll both agree where the appendix is.

But the problem with steroids is twofold.

One: Those who know the most aren't really interested in bodybuildng applications. You won't hear about "bridging" in a medical reference book. You need people with experience that is outside the normal applications.

Two: People who post on the internet, yet have never been regonized in any way (published, acknowledged by authorities, etc) have been able to establish themselves as experts simply through recognition. It's like somebody being famous for being famous. You don't need any special talent or ability -- people just have to know who you are.

 

[solidspine]

I thought the whole bridging concept was developed by Dan Duchaine?

 

[Anthony Roberts]

True but those who really know what they're talking about tend to agree on many things if not everything. Two doctors may have differing opinions but they'll both agree where the appendix is.

But the problem with steroids is twofold.

One: Those who know the most aren't really interested in bodybuildng applications. You won't hear about "bridging" in a medical reference book. You need people with experience that is outside the normal applications.

Two: People who post on the internet, yet have never been regonized in any way (published, acknowledged by authorities, etc) have been able to establish themselves as experts simply through recognition. It's like somebody being famous for being famous. You don't need any special talent or ability -- people just have to know who you are.

I totally agree. Here's my additions:

1. The issue with people who are experts on steroids also hinges on the fact that if you really are a top guy in the world for steroid knowledge, you work with athletes in something called the "NFL" not the "NPC"...The second raters are working exclusively with bodybuilders for training, diet, steroids, etc....the top dudes work where the top money is.

2. And if they were experts, they surely could put together a couple hundred pages and get it published!

 

[Mr.X]

I'm with NM here. You're either on or off steroids, no such thing as a bridge. Too many guys use a bridge as an excuse to stay on for years at a time, putting their health on the line in the process.

 

[Anthony Roberts]

I love how the bridging theory with AM dbol goes that you can "hide" dbol in a natural test spike.

Also...there was this guy "Nandi" who I worked with quite a bit (was a mod with him on 2 different sites and he offered me modship on a third he was involved with)....he HATED the AM Dbol theory and thought it to have been devised by people who knew very little...about anything....on a site that he typically reminded me to be a waste of time.

 

[Sam5]

I believe cycling to be counterproductive. As I've stated, the only way you are going to maintain a hormonally enhanced physique is to be hormonally enhanced. You take the support away and its gone, plain physiology. I am a firm believer in blasting and cruising if you want to maintain a freak like look for lack thereof of a better word. There is no sense in going on then going off, going on then going off, ad nauseum. If you're going to choose this lifestyle then staying on is where it is at. Did I say it was healthy, no, but to attain a competitive physique for most this is the only way. This is another reason I tell people not to use steroids unless they are totally committed and especially if they are young (early twenties). Some or many may not agree with me but then I don't agree with 90% of you on any of these boards. Rarely do I come across a post or thread where I'm like "Yea, finally a guy who gets it and knows what the game is about." So respond on "experts". Especially you Anthony Roberts.

 

[Anthony Roberts]

I believe cycling to be counterproductive. As I've stated, the only way you are going to maintain a hormonally enhanced physique is to be hormonally enhanced. You take the support away and its gone, plain physiology. I am a firm believer in blasting and cruising if you want to maintain a freak like look for lack thereof of a better word. There is no sense in going on then going off, going on then going off, ad nauseum. If you're going to choose this lifestyle then staying on is where it is at. Did I say it was healthy, no, but to attain a competitive physique for most this is the only way. This is another reason I tell people not to use steroids unless they are totally committed and especially if they are young (early twenties). Some or many may not agree with me but then I don't agree with 90% of you on any of these boards. Rarely do I come across a post or thread where I'm like "Yea, finally a guy who gets it and knows what the game is about." So respond on "experts". Especially you Anthony Roberts.

The attack on me is unnecessary. I don't think that bridging will produce an IFBB pro or Professional Powerlifter. To do that, you need to stay on all the time. But the average person here...is average. That's just a fact. We're not professional athletes or even bodybuilders...

See the hump in the middle of the "bell curve"?

That's most of EliteFitness. Deal with it. We're not professional athletes, and what they do isn't applicable to us, for the most part. If we do what they do and aren't at their level, then we need to realize that the health trade-off isn't worth it.

 

[pentatonic]

You can no easier recover through bridging than you can stop a leak in a boat by putting another hole in it to let the water out.

Deal with it.

Great analogy by the way!!! I like it

 

[Mrpumped]

I love how the bridging theory with AM dbol goes that you can "hide" dbol in a natural test spike.

Also...there was this guy "Nandi" who I worked with quite a bit (was a mod with him on 2 different sites and he offered me modship on a third he was involved with)....he HATED the AM Dbol theory and thought it to have been devised by people who knew very little...about anything....on a site that he typically reminded me to be a waste of time.

This entire thread is a waste of time. It's just a post of someone's opinion on something, nothing more.

 

[Papa Lion]

I don't believe I've ever heard "bridging" and "full recovery" used in the same sentence!! the bridging theory is not based on full recovery!! anyone stating that it is needs to go back and take a second look!! it's based on running high doses for a period and then running a lowered dose to let your receptors recover (to a degree) no knowledgable user that I have ever spoken to about bridging has ever said anything about FULL recovery... so yes to the novice users here... BRIDGING DOES NOT MEAN YOU ARE OFF... however it does mean that after doing time on a lowered dose a higher dose will be more effective than maintaining a high dose full through!! if you are an alcoholic... ie consuming a fifth (or close to it) in a sitting a few times a week, your body will become more tolerable to alcohol... however if your reduce this amount to a few beers a week for some time... tolerance will not be sustained!! plain and simple!! I chose to use alcohol as a reference as many people here will be able to apply their own experience to this theory!!

and yes running these cycles (staying on for extensive periods of time) will shut you down and completely F' your HPTA recovery if and when you decide to come off!!


~Papa Lion~

 

[jmead]

thats what i was thinking.. who ever said you recover while on a "bridge" its just allowing your body a break from heavy dosages to somewhat clear your receptors to respond once you hop back on cycle..if your going to cycle on and off for 6-10 years.. i dont see a point in trying to recover every 4-5 months.. hasnt it been proven you can recover fully after say a 3 year cycle..

basically your on HRT until you cycle on.. people on HRT still cycle and grow..

im young and ignorant though so ignore me haha

 

[Triple-G]

As I've stated, the only way you are going to maintain a hormonally enhanced physique is to be hormonally enhanced. You take the support away and its gone, plain physiology.

word. i always cringe when i read something about "keepable" gains. The only thing you keep is the hole in your bank account for buying all that gear you waste on a single cycle

There is no sense in going on then going off, going on then going off, ad nauseum.

maybe if you want to look good for one summer month and then keep away from the gym for the rest of the year

This is another reason I tell people not to use steroids unless they are totally committed

or can live with the fact than when they quit [using steroids] they will look as if the never have used.

 

[monopoly19]

I respect the opinion of everyone that's posted in here. For the most part, I read as much as I can, do the best I can to understand it, and then do what makes the most sense to me.

We really don't have any hard data that proves much of anything in this game, it's all studies that were used for a different situation, or feedback and ideas from smarter people who have been around.

I agree that you are either on or off, no inbetween.

However, the only way to get good data would be to gather a large enough test group of healthy adult males within a certain age range. Have all of them cycle test e at 500mgs per week for 12 weeks. Then, have some use PCT, some quit cold turkey, some taper, some use dbol, some bridge, etc. Do blood work before, during, and after on all subjects and see the real results.

It would be interesting to see I think, and it would actually give some good reference points. Kinda off topic, but kinda where the thread is headed.

Monopoly

 

[Sam5]

The attack on me is unnecessary. I don't think that bridging will produce an IFBB pro or Professional Powerlifter. To do that, you need to stay on all the time. But the average person here...is average. That's just a fact. We're not professional athletes or even bodybuilders...

See the hump in the middle of the "bell curve"?

That's most of EliteFitness. Deal with it. We're not professional athletes, and what they do isn't applicable to us, for the most part. If we do what they do and aren't at their level, then we need to realize that the health trade-off isn't worth it.

Allright Anthony, because of your mature response I will stop attacking you. Honestly, a good part of the reason I feel the way I do is that another really respected trainer on a few other boards is constantly bashing you and I guess I'm guilty for being led along. Maybe I should read some of your stuff before I form my own opinion. I apologize and it won't happen again. So far you seem to be fairly credible so I'll leave it alone.

 

[chazk]

cycling roids is not just about getting your nuts to come back ..
you cycle becuase you want to gain some muscle but come off and maintain some muscle while giving the body a rest
off cycle allows a break on the internal organs such as the spleen,liver,gallbladder,pancreas,heart,kindnies they all deal with stress of steroids in one form or anotherfiltering, breaking down ,excreting or internal organ growth.

If you want to stay on all year then thats your choice just rember the body never got a break from chemical toxicity.

Id rather cycle for 10-20 years 1-2 cycles per year and look decent then get all roided up for 5 years on high doses and have major healthproblems that force me to stop all together .Such as flex wheeler,don long,pual dillet and other numerous top amatures and pros that are now a shadow of them selves .

people forget when steroids make the muscles grow it makes the internal muscles grow its a sad fact that they dont wanna face and if you tell them anything other then what they want to hear it's all "hearsay" to them.

If you cant come off then its called a addiction and you might need professional help to over come it.

stay safe bros...Lets lift untill we die not die from lifting.

 

[mr.nitro]

cycleing , bridgeing, who really cares what its called, we all know what it is. I drop my testosterone intake to 250-500mg for a few weeks between cycles, call it whatever you like.

 

[jmead]

lol your bridge is 500mg test? wowsers what kinda cycles you run

 

[medical]

Not that there needs to be a study to prove wheater a theory is sound

Ummmmm.........it's called the Scientific Method you 'tard.

 

[jackangel]

is it the majority opinion that doing 1 cycle, or even 2-3, in a lifetime will be useless in permanently altering a physique (provided diet and training don't falter)?

 

[nydj66]

I never liked the idea of bridging but Ulter once stated in a post that he has seen it used successfully and I assume he has the experience to make such a statment.

Since the male body produces about 10mg/day of testosterone (and continues to produce more) it's not unreasonable to believe that you could take 10mg/day of d-bol and recover some (not all) of your natural tesosterone production.

However, the idea of taking it in the AM in order not to conflict with the natural testosterone peak does seem suspect to me.

 

[jmead]

i think bridging is just for people who dont want to come off and lose gains.. that plan on cycling 4-5 more times and see no point in recovering and losing some of your muscle gains just to get right back on 3-4 weeks after a PCT

 

[jacshelb]

I went for a walk yesterday and stopped in a little mom and pop store told them my ideas on running a small business first thing upon walking in. Then, concluded with "Deal with it!" They were so greatful that they decided to hire me on as their permanant financial advisor. I also do the same thing to customers in my store. It's a great way to get business.

No, but seriously, this is a good point. If you want to recover, you gotta come off. If you aren't worried about that, cool. I just have heard too many personal stories on here about guys being on for a year and a half and then still not having normal test after another 18 months off. I just try to keep it reasonable, but I do believe in tapering- I know a lot of people don't. But, for me, it seems to make for a smoother recovery time. Not such a shock to the system. And, if it's psychological, so be it.


Jacob

ps: The first part of my post is a joke directed at Nelson's posting technique (hey, it gets your attention), no offence intended. Also, on low carbs and feeling loopy, so pay no attention....

 

[chazk]

is it the majority opinion that doing 1 cycle, or even 2-3, in a lifetime will be useless in permanently altering a physique (provided diet and training don't falter)?

not always a person that has done 3 cycles... will have a big advantage over a all natural guy that took no roids at all... they will have expanded their muscle fascia (sacks around the muscle) to be bigger then a all natural allowing them to be able to achieve bigger muscle growth when they do come off and build back up slower then the guy that could never break a platue at all being natural..

look at lot of " natural " ex juicers at these shows they have been off roids for atleast 5 years and they still look huge compared to the " lifetime naturals" thats never used at all

 

[Sam5]

cycling roids is not just about getting your nuts to come back ..
you cycle becuase you want to gain some muscle but come off and maintain some muscle while giving the body a rest
off cycle allows a break on the internal organs such as the spleen,liver,gallbladder,pancreas,heart,kindnies they all deal with stress of steroids in one form or anotherfiltering, breaking down ,excreting or internal organ growth.

If you want to stay on all year then thats your choice just rember the body never got a break from chemical toxicity.

Id rather cycle for 10-20 years 1-2 cycles per year and look decent then get all roided up for 5 years on high doses and have major healthproblems that force me to stop all together .Such as flex wheeler,don long,pual dillet and other numerous top amatures and pros that are now a shadow of them selves .

people forget when steroids make the muscles grow it makes the internal muscles grow its a sad fact that they dont wanna face and if you tell them anything other then what they want to hear it's all "hearsay" to them.

If you cant come off then its called a addiction and you might need professional help to over come it.

stay safe bros...Lets lift untill we die not die from lifting.

I agree with some of what you say and what you believe is very common. Again, if your going to stay on all the time there is a science behind it and I'm not going to go into it, but for starters, staying away from shit like dbol, anadrol, tren, and winstrol is a great idea. The simple fact is your not going to get big overnight no matter how much shit you take. It is a long drawn out process and you must have a highly anabolic environment to do this, that is just simple fact. The closest thing any of us will get to getting big overnight is the first 6-8 weeks of your cycle and most of that is water. This is where creating a new homeostatic l;evel comes into play and the only way to do that is to stay on for extended periods. Now if your looking to look good on spring break or for the summer, which most here are, then a cycle or two a year is fine. I know there are health risks and I'm willing to throw the dice. I want to take this as far as I can go because I believe I have the genetics to do so. At the same time I'm also being as safe as I can to ensure longevity. I made the mistake once of playing with too many harsh drugs at one time or prolonged periods and I had to come off, not due to any doctors advice but due to my own intuition. This is another thing, and Keith Richards is a firm believer in it too, that you must know your body and be able to listen to it. I wish everyone the best with their goals and I would definitely hope everyone wishes me the best in my endeavors even if it is not your cup of coffee.

 

[Sam5]

not always a person that has done 3 cycles... will have a big advantage over a all natural guy that took no roids at all... they will have expanded their muscle fascia (sacks around the muscle) to be bigger then a all natural allowing them to be able to achieve bigger muscle growth when they do come off and build back up slower then the guy that could never break a platue at all being natural..

look at lot of " natural " ex juicers at these shows they have been off roids for atleast 5 years and they still look huge compared to the " lifetime naturals" thats never used at all

I agree with this. You create a new genetic limit once you've used. Before you cycled you were only able to bench 320, after you cycled and were off for quite some time , like 3-4 years your were able to get to 360 naturally. This is because you created a new genetic limit so to say but it only goes so far.

 

[Nelson Montana]

Ummmmm.........it's called the Scientific Method you 'tard.

And so begin the personal insults.

You don't even know what you're talking about so I think it best if you keep quiet and let the grown ups speak.

 

[chazk]

I know there are health risks and I'm willing to throw the dice. I want to take this as far as I can go because I believe I have the genetics to do so. At the same time I'm also being as safe QUOTE]


I know when I roll the dice I rarley ever win .I have to consider a house,wife,making money and living a wonderful life. If I lose, I could lose all of that if i'm to sick to work and need organs transplated or have major health problems it could all vanish before my eyes.

I wish you the best sam5 I hope you find the road you travel a good one with your goals achieved at the end of it.Just be safe and as you said listen to your body then you never go wrong...Just rember its a roll of the dice you rolled um they will be up in the air for the next 5-7 years no one knows how they will land not me or you untill they land.

 

[CO B-man]

Im going to bridge with HGH is that not called bridging?

 

[medical]

And so begin the personal insults.

You don't even know what you're talking about so I think it best if you keep quiet and let the grown ups speak.

Wait a minute: You said:

Not that there needs to be a study to prove wheater a theory is sound

.
That is the most wrong, 180 degree backwards, non-sensical statement I have ever heard! Just how WOULD you prove a theory sound, then????
I think it's best if you keep quiet and let scientists debate matters of science. Your post was just a troll anyway so don't bash me for giving you exactly what you asked for.

 

[Nelson Montana]

Im going to bridge with HGH is that not called bridging?

It's not a steroid. Anything that helps get you from one place to another can be figuratively referred to as a "bridge."

REALITY CHECK!!!

sam5. If that's your pic, you look good bro. Great, in fact.

But answer me this -- honestly.

Do you think in another 3-4 years you'll look better than Coleman and Cutler and Ruhl and Martinez? Because you'll have to -- just to make enough money to pay the rent and buy the amount of gear you'll need. Bodybuilding is not a career. "Taking it as far as you can" means nothing, unless you're talking about what is indeed an (unhealthy) addiction as chazk said.

Right now, you'd be better off trying to do male model work. You'll make more money and get more women and you'll have a much better chance of living till 50.

 

[CO B-man]

It's not a steroid. Anything that helps get you from one place to another can be figuratively referred to as a "bridge."

Then with that statement you mean for the title should have read "There is no such thing as "brdiging" with another sterroid."

 

[Sam5]

It's not a steroid. Anything that helps get you from one place to another can be figuratively referred to as a "bridge."

REALITY CHECK!!!

sam5. If that's your pic, you look good bro. Great, in fact.

But answer me this -- honestly.

Do you think in another 3-4 years you'll look better than Coleman and Cutler and Ruhl and Martinez? Because you'll have to -- just to make enough money to pay the rent and buy the amount of gear you'll need. Bodybuilding is not a career. "Taking it as far as you can" means nothing, unless you're talking about what is indeed an (unhealthy) addiction as chazk said.

Right now, you'd be better off trying to do male model work. You'll make more money and get more women and you'll have a much better chance of living till 50.

No, I don't think I'll be as big as Coleman, but neither was Titus, Sarcev, or a good number of pro's and hey, if I get to pro stage that would be great, but I just want to take it as far as i can go. that may mean only the NPC's, but at least I did my best. I think some of you get the wrong idea when i speak and I don't blame you, because unless I had you here in front of me and did the talking then it is hard to convey what I'm really doing. Also, doesn't this kind of go against one of your threads Nelson where you say that most do not do the mega doses. I think we both know that they do mega dose. As far as the money is concerned, maybe I shouldn't say this, but I have more shit than I know what to do with. I refuse to sell, in fact I give away some of it to good friends and that is it. I won't sell anything. So monster doses are not a problem. I've been on since July of last year just used prop and about 2 months worth of tren during that time. Won't do tren again probably, too many other compounds that are safer and less sides. I've been conservative all the way through, but have had to increase my doses naturally, goes without saying. I wouldn't say I'm going nuts right now, here it is. Monday I shoot 500mg of testosterone cypionate and 500mg of nandrolone decanoate, on Thursday I repeat this, on Sunday I just shoot 500mg of cypionate, no deca and i repeat this schedule. Now i just recently added the second 500mg of deca this last week and I may find that that is too much, but believe it or not I do not use anti-e's and get no sides whatsoever, well except acne which sucks. So as you see, for having the gear that I have I have not been stupid, but my trainer and friend (former Mr. Iowa) and I were on the way to the gym the other day and I brought up the question "I wonder what kind of results we'll get if we bump our doses up in the 3-4 gram range?" Right now he is only using 200mg of cyp and 200mg of deca so he knows it is best for him to stay there unless he needs to go up. He is 5'5" at 240lbs, a little fat, but not bad, so there is no reason for him to do so. And no I seriously doubt I could be a model at this point, not only does that pic not do me justice, it is about 6 months old. I was 225lbs there and now I'm at a solid 240lbs. So I'm still making gains which is great. Now that I've got a good training partner and my diet is in check I'm only expecting the best. I will get blood work done soon.

 

[dwbrown555]

I believe cycling to be counterproductive. As I've stated, the only way you are going to maintain a hormonally enhanced physique is to be hormonally enhanced. You take the support away and its gone, plain physiology. I am a firm believer in blasting and cruising if you want to maintain a freak like look for lack thereof of a better word. There is no sense in going on then going off, going on then going off, ad nauseum. If you're going to choose this lifestyle then staying on is where it is at. Did I say it was healthy, no, but to attain a competitive physique for most this is the only way. This is another reason I tell people not to use steroids unless they are totally committed and especially if they are young (early twenties). Some or many may not agree with me but then I don't agree with 90% of you on any of these boards. Rarely do I come across a post or thread where I'm like "Yea, finally a guy who gets it and knows what the game is about." So respond on "experts". Especially you Anthony Roberts.

finally...thank you...looking foward to the junior nationals next year and cannot keep gaining and losing,gaining,and losing.

 

[ironclaw]

cycling roids is not just about getting your nuts to come back ..
you cycle becuase you want to gain some muscle but come off and maintain some muscle while giving the body a rest
off cycle allows a break on the internal organs such as the spleen,liver,gallbladder,pancreas,heart,kindnies they all deal with stress of steroids in one form or anotherfiltering, breaking down ,excreting or internal organ growth.

If you want to stay on all year then thats your choice just rember the body never got a break from chemical toxicity.

Id rather cycle for 10-20 years 1-2 cycles per year and look decent then get all roided up for 5 years on high doses and have major healthproblems that force me to stop all together .Such as flex wheeler,don long,pual dillet and other numerous top amatures and pros that are now a shadow of them selves .

people forget when steroids make the muscles grow it makes the internal muscles grow its a sad fact that they dont wanna face and if you tell them anything other then what they want to hear it's all "hearsay" to them.

If you cant come off then its called a addiction and you might need professional help to over come it.

stay safe bros...Lets lift untill we die not die from lifting.

I totally agree with you on the fact that if you can't come off, then its an addiction. Being a recovering addict myself, I can say that when I'm on, I don't want to come off, jsut for thte fact that I feel like shit for a few months before I go back on. And the more cycles I do, the longer I stay on without coming off. Ijsut came off a 10 month cycle, and plan on stayingon for 12-14 months, maybe longer when I go back on in 6 weeks.

 

[rdel85]

can any of the experience bros chime in on this a little more?

is it the majority opinion that doing 1 cycle, or even 2-3, in a lifetime will be useless in permanently altering a physique (provided diet and training don't falter)?

 

[Mac173]

can any of the experience bros chime in on this a little more?

I wouldn't say useless but it takes alot of work to mantain the extra mass that has been gained due to those cycles.

 

[Nelson Montana]

No, I don't think I'll be as big as Coleman, but neither was Titus, Sarcev, or a good number of pro's and hey, if I get to pro stage that would be great, but I just want to take it as far as i can go. that may mean only the NPC's, but at least I did my best.

...............................................................................................

I UNDERSTAND. I DID THE NPC FOR THE SAME REASON. OF COURSE MY CYCLE WAS 200 MGS OF DECA A WEEK AND 25 MGS OF D-BOL A DAY. STILL, I PLACED. IT WAS MY BEST. SO FUCKING WHAT, I GOT A TACKY TROPHY. BUT THAT'S NOT THE ISSUE. IT SOUNDS LIKE YOU WANT TO SEE HOW FAR YOU CAN GO BY DOING AS MUCH GEAR AS POSSIBLE AND THAT'S FINE. BUT YOU MAY FEEL DIFFERENTLY WHEN YOU HAVE TO LIVE WITH THE CONSEQUENCES.


..................................................................




Also, doesn't this kind of go against one of your threads Nelson where you say that most do not do the mega doses.
................................................................................

MANY DON'T. THE OLD TIMERS DID A FRACTION OF WHAT GOES ON TODAY AND QUITE FRANKLY LOOKED, AT LEAST AS GOOD AS YOU. TODAY THERE ARE OTHER DRUGS INVOLVED BUT IF THE COST ISN'T AN ISSUE FOR YOU, IT ISN'T.


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Monday I shoot 500mg of testosterone cypionate and 500mg of nandrolone decanoate, on Thursday I repeat this, on Sunday I just shoot 500mg of cypionate, no deca and i repeat this schedule. Now i just recently added the second 500mg of deca this last week and I may find that that is too much, but believe it or not I do not use anti-e's and get no sides whatsoever, well except acne which sucks. So as you see, for having the gear that I have I have not been stupid, but my trainer and friend (former Mr. Iowa) and I were on the way to the gym the other day and I brought up the question "I wonder what kind of results we'll get if we bump our doses up in the 3-4 gram range?" Right now he is only using 200mg of cyp and 200mg of deca so he knows it is best for him to stay there unless he needs to go up. He is 5'5" at 240lbs, a little fat, but not bad, so there is no reason for him to do so. And no I seriously doubt I could be a model at this point, not only does that pic not do me justice, it is about 6 months old. I was 225lbs there and now I'm at a solid 240lbs. So I'm still making gains which is great. Now that I've got a good training partner and my diet is in check I'm only expecting the best. I will get blood work done soon.[/
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YEAH, AND TITUS WAS SELLING USED T SHIRTS ON HIS WEBSITE FOR MONEY BEFORE HE WAS BUSTED. SOUNDS VERY SUCCESSFUL. SARCEV WAS PRETTY FREAKIN BIG BRO BUT HE COULD NEVER BREAK THE TOP 5. BUT ALL THIS DOESN'T MATTER. YOU'VE MADE A CHOICE AND REGARDLESS TO WHAT ME OR ANYONE ELSE THINKS ABOUT IT, YOU HAVE THE RIGHT TO MAKE IT. BUT FOR 99.9% OF THE GUYS ON HERE, THEIR GOALS ARE DIFFERENT.






QUOTE]
,,

 

[airsmith2k]

i know alotta guys that will come off and do hcg for like 6 weeks for the balls to grow back then just go rite back on

 

[Nelson Montana]

i know alotta guys that will come off and do hcg for like 6 weeks for the balls to grow back then just go rite back on

HCG just prepares the body to start functioning on its own. If you go right back on, you never really took a break.

 

[Anthony Roberts]

Allright Anthony, because of your mature response I will stop attacking you. Honestly, a good part of the reason I feel the way I do is that another really respected trainer on a few other boards is constantly bashing you and I guess I'm guilty for being led along. Maybe I should read some of your stuff before I form my own opinion. I apologize and it won't happen again. So far you seem to be fairly credible so I'll leave it alone.

A lot of people attack me. Typically I earn for an hour of consulting what they earn for 16 weeks of contest prep...and although they seem to think they're also authors, they've never been published. Just something to think about...I co-wrote an article with Llewellyn, Kneller, and Collins....has this trainer who attacks me ever been asked to do something like that? Seriously...I'm not bashing him, and don't know who you're talking about...but think about what I'm saying.

 

[Anthony Roberts]

I never liked the idea of bridging but Ulter once stated in a post that he has seen it used successfully and I assume he has the experience to make such a statment.

Since the male body produces about 10mg/day of testosterone (and continues to produce more) it's not unreasonable to believe that you could take 10mg/day of d-bol and recover some (not all) of your natural tesosterone production.

However, the idea of taking it in the AM in order not to conflict with the natural testosterone peak does seem suspect to me.

But the male body doesn't make 10mgs of Dbol a day....or 10mgs of Anadrol, etc...it makes testosterone...

See the flaw in the theory?

 

[needtogetaas]

You're either on or off.

"Bridging" is a theory started by a certain Meso guru whose rambings have been proven wrong on many occasions yet somehow, "bridging" was survived.

No wonder.

People like to hear what they want to hear. If you think that continuing to use gear with no supression or side effects and no loss of gains -- GREAT! But it doesn't work that way.

You can no easier recover through bridging than you can stop a leak in a boat by putting another hole in it to let the water out.

Deal with it.

I feel the same way.

 

[Sam5]

Hey Nelson, I respect your view, please respect mine and quit downplaying my goals and your own accomplishments. And your trophy is not tacky, it represents all the hard work and know-how it took to get to that point. Listen, I don't have kids, a wife, or even a loved one except my mom, dad, and brother. I don't have a degree and I don't have some high end job. The only thing I really have is my genetics so I want to take that and make the absolute best out of it. And like I said, I believe I'm being as safe as I can about this.

Oh and Anthony, the guy I'm referring to has made a name for himself over at Anabolex.com and Professionalmuscle.com and at least claims to train at least ten top pro's who step on the stage at the NOC, Arnold, and the Olympia and there are many other guys on the boards that confirm this. But anyway, like I said, I'm done bashing you. I do respect the fact that you have made a killing on the internet.

 

[humble]

....

 

[needtogetaas]

But the male body doesn't make 10mgs of Dbol a day....or 10mgs of Anadrol, etc...it makes testosterone...

See the flaw in the theory?

lol just a bit.

 

[Nelson Montana]

Hey Nelson, I respect your view, please respect mine and quit downplaying my goals and your own accomplishments. And your trophy is not tacky, it represents all the hard work and know-how it took to get to that point. Listen, I don't have kids, a wife, or even a loved one except my mom, dad, and brother. I don't have a degree and I don't have some high end job. The only thing I really have is my genetics so I want to take that and make the absolute best out of it. And like I said, I believe I'm being as safe as I can about this.

Oh and Anthony, the guy I'm referring to has made a name for himself over at Anabolex.com and Professionalmuscle.com and at least claims to train at least ten top pro's who step on the stage at the NOC, Arnold, and the Olympia and there are many other guys on the boards that confirm this. But anyway, like I said, I'm done bashing you. I do respect the fact that you have made a killing on the internet.

I'll pass it back to you bro. Don't sell yourself short. You sound like an intellegent person. Y If you have the dedication to do this, you can do anything.

Competing is fun but it's not a total life. I'll be a bodybuilder until I'm a serior citizen and beyond, but as a healthy lifestyle, not a collision course. We just don't want to see anyone hurt themself for something that may not seem all that important in a few years.



And yeah, the trophy was pretty tacky.

 

[gautho]

I believe cycling to be counterproductive. As I've stated, the only way you are going to maintain a hormonally enhanced physique is to be hormonally enhanced. You take the support away and its gone, plain physiology. I am a firm believer in blasting and cruising if you want to maintain a freak like look for lack thereof of a better word. There is no sense in going on then going off, going on then going off, ad nauseum. If you're going to choose this lifestyle then staying on is where it is at. Did I say it was healthy, no, but to attain a competitive physique for most this is the only way. This is another reason I tell people not to use steroids unless they are totally committed and especially if they are young (early twenties). Some or many may not agree with me but then I don't agree with 90% of you on any of these boards. Rarely do I come across a post or thread where I'm like "Yea, finally a guy who gets it and knows what the game is about." So respond on "experts". Especially you Anthony Roberts.

i'm with you on this one sam. 2 steps forward, 2 steps back.......lol...f**k that.

 

[gautho]

Maybe i won't call it bridging. But i'm definitely a fan of what someone called the blast and cruise theory.

 

[CO B-man]

I think the whole concept of bridgin with another sterroid was taken out of context. I agree you cant bridge with it. It makes total sense sinse your body is still tricked into thinking it is producing enough testosterone and therefore your body will still be supressed from producing its own. The concept of bridging I think is simply meant that you are going to give your body a break between heavy dose cycles by tricking your body into thinking it was producing the regular amount and therefore aiding in sustaining your gains from the previous cycle. Many readers in here took that as meaning Hmm I dont have to get off sterroids, keep gains and get back to normal which is not the case and what I think is being said in here. But I do believe you can bridge with HGH and bring yourself back with PCT which is that type of bridging. Or at the very least it will help

 

[Powerbuilder333]

I tried the AM Dbol bridge once, and I liked it. I retained most of my strength from the previous cycle. Of course I also added 10 iu of Humalin-R post workout.
I plan on running this same bridge after this cycle.
If you tried it, and didn't like it, then don't do it.

 

[mr.nitro]

Maybe i won't call it bridging. But i'm definitely a fan of what someone called the blast and cruise theory.

ya, I like that. blast and cruise!

 

[Anthony Roberts]

Hey Nelson, I respect your view, please respect mine and quit downplaying my goals and your own accomplishments. And your trophy is not tacky, it represents all the hard work and know-how it took to get to that point. Listen, I don't have kids, a wife, or even a loved one except my mom, dad, and brother. I don't have a degree and I don't have some high end job. The only thing I really have is my genetics so I want to take that and make the absolute best out of it. And like I said, I believe I'm being as safe as I can about this.

Oh and Anthony, the guy I'm referring to has made a name for himself over at Anabolex.com and Professionalmuscle.com and at least claims to train at least ten top pro's who step on the stage at the NOC, Arnold, and the Olympia and there are many other guys on the boards that confirm this. But anyway, like I said, I'm done bashing you. I do respect the fact that you have made a killing on the internet.

Made a name for himself on two boards with less than 20k combined members?

Notice that he calls himself an "author" (which is what I am) in his sig, though he's never been published? And notice further that he changed from using a screen name to his real name (after I did it_? C'mon, I'm sure you can see what's going on....I'm an author, I use my name...I did all of that first...


I wish him nothing but the best, and hope he succeeds in all of his ventures in the industry...but if you're going to make a name for yourself, it has to be somewhere that has a name for itself. When you have a name, you get asked to do stuff like this:

http://www.elitefitness.com/forum/showthread.php?t=542725

...you're not posting YOUR OWN "articles" (which are simply long posts) everywhere...you get paid to do articles with the best in the industry...when you have a name...

'Bolex's main page has more articles by me on it than by him, if you're interested.
Anyway, thanks for keeping an open mind.

 

[odoyal rulez]

I totally agree. Here's my additions:



2. And if they were experts, they surely could put together a couple hundred pages and get it published!

yeah how hard could it be to copy paste everyone elses ideas and present them as your own in a publication...

 

[Anthony Roberts]

yeah how hard could it be to copy paste everyone elses ideas and present them as your own in a publication...

You couldn't copyright that kind of book, though.

 

[blut wump]

i know alotta guys that will come off and do hcg for like 6 weeks for the balls to grow back then just go rite back on

After only six weeks, unless you're just using orals and esterless hormones or, just maybe, acetate esters then you're still not "off'. It'll take longer than six weeks for the hormones to clear from a typical cycle even though levels will have fallen low enough for endogenous production to be comfortably back underway.

If testicle size were their only real consideration then they could take HCG regularly throughout their cycle.

I'm still not sure on the situation with AM Dbol. I have seen studies indicating that LH production is negligably affected. The idea behind the AM Dbol, of course, is not that it helps you to recover but that it helps you to feel better while recovering and that, at a 10mg dose, it doesn't significantly interfere with recovery.

I've certainly not felt that I've suffered from taking AM Dbol for a few days but I've not run it for extended periods as a part of recovery from a cycle. Of course, feeling that I've not suffered is no basis for a medical recommendation.