Sustanon, and other AAS "blends"-DONT BE CONFUSED!

[BionicBC]

Recently Ive seen a lot of people pushing the idea that "blends" like sustanon, omnadren, (and its many UG variants), as well as Trinabol (Trenbolone blend) need to be injected ed or eod to make good use of the short esters (propionate, acetate). This just isnt true. If someone can give me evidence otherwise, Ill eat my words, edit my post, and apologize. If Im not mistaken, Sustanon was specifically invented to keep blood levels steady and even with LESS frequent injections-Otherwise, If youre gonna have to do ed or eod injections, why not just use a prop ester the whole way thru?
First off, to understand this, you must realize test is test, same goes for tren. Although half-lives/esters may be different, ITS THE SAME THING. Sustanon was invented as a blend to keep blood levels steady with LESS frequent injections. True, the prop in the sust blend (and the acetate in the Trinabol blend) causes the initial rise in test levels, but by the time this is decreasing, enough time has passed to allow some of the other esters to release and keep your test levels even. So ed or eod injections would cause an unwanted buildup of the longer acting esters, which will usually lead to unwanted side effects, particularly later on in the cycle.
Bionic

 

[PolfaJelfa]

Your right....However what some people are trying to say is that if you do Ed or Eod injections, you simply keep the level completely steady and higher. However that as i have found from personal experience is not that important. It is fine doing it 2x week or even 1x week. No problems. Especially if your on other "supps"

 

[BionicBC]

Your right....However what some people are trying to say is that if you do Ed or Eod injections, you simply keep the level completely steady and higher.

True, and with Sustanon, the sides can be handled with an increase in AI's or Nolva... Still seems unnecessary. Just take a higher dose 1x a week... I know this is harder to do with amps[but not impossible] (ie 1.7ml e5d or e6d) but with multi-dose vials its much simpler.
HOWEVER, in reference to the thread concerning Trinabol (Trenbolone blend), I can see Ed or Eod injections being a HUGE problem towards the end of the cycle when prolactin and progesterone levels are sky-high.

However that as i have found from personal experience is not that important. It is fine doing it 2x week or even 1x week. No problems. Especially if your on other "supps"

I agree completely.
Bionic

 

[artrius]

AI =? aromatase inhibitors? you mean like arimidex and femara?

 

[BionicBC]

AI =? aromatase inhibitors? you mean like arimidex and femara?

Yes. An increase in these would help with the sides that would come with an accumulation of the long-acting test esters in the Sust blend. This will not help in the case of Trinabol.
Bionic

 

[Madcow2]

One thing is that Sustanon was developed as a blend of esters to provide even blood levels for longer than standard single long-ester solutions. It was specifically designed to be injected once every 3 weeks (I have a link below and if you search my posts in this forum I did post a pdf link to the package insert from Organon). This is specifically why these esters and the resulting proportions were used. So it is in no way optimized for BBer use or weekly injections. One more thing to consider is that when you look at the different esters a mg to mg comparison doesn't really provide an accurate picture of the composition of the blend. You have to also take ester weight into account. It's significant - look at acetate vs. hept. (parabolan ester I can't spell) the amount of active ingredient per mg after the ester is removed varies significantly - 100mg of acetate is not the same as 100mg of a longer ester. This further squeues the balance toward the shorter esters more than one would think from a simple mg to mg look.

So anyway, that's the jist. It's just not designed for injections more frequent than 1 every 3 weeks. They also have a separate blend for injection every 2 weeks. What does this leave the BBer - the task of figuring out how to best apply a compound not specifically made for their needs. Given the blend and factoring ester weights to really get a good idea makes the calculations onerous. My personal opinion is that it's a hell of a lot easier and often cheaper to use a single ester and manage your frequency. Of course, how big of a deal is it - it's not life or death and obviously good gains can be made using it even 1x per week. As far as what is optimal for even blood levels, given what I've already covered, it's a frequency that balances out the short esters. How much more optimal and is it worth it for people to do it? I don't know (maybe use a spreadsheet, figure the ester weights, apply halflives, calculate the deviations, and chart it) it also likely depends on the person and how much he wants to bother himself with it.

That's my take on sustanon and that's also why you hear people talking about more frequent injections than 1x per week. Obviously from what I presented I think they are correct but I doubt that the majority has any idea and is merely repeating what someone else told them. So anyway, check out the link below and maybe search up the organon document I linked a few months back. I'd love to see such a spreadsheet made up but it's not something to which I'm willing to devote my own time since my involvement is zero. Personally, I think a comprehensive spreadsheet (still an estimate to some degree but a lot more accurate) would be a good basis for decision making and looking into this further. Afterall, this is how they designed the drug in the first place using simple calcs and analytics.

http://www.dundee.ac.uk/medther/tayendoweb/images/sustanon_injection.htm

 

[BionicBC]

One thing is that Sustanon was developed as a blend of esters to provide even blood levels for longer than standard single long-ester solutions. It was specifically designed to be injected once every 3 weeks (I have a link below and if you search my posts in this forum I did post a pdf link to the package insert from Organon). This is specifically why these esters and the resulting proportions were used. So it is in no way optimized for BBer use or weekly injections. One more thing to consider is that when you look at the different esters a mg to mg comparison doesn't really provide an accurate picture of the composition of the blend. You have to also take ester weight into account. It's significant - look at acetate vs. hept. (parabolan ester I can't spell) the amount of active ingredient per mg after the ester is removed varies significantly - 100mg of acetate is not the same as 100mg of a longer ester. This further squeues the balance toward the shorter esters more than one would think from a simple mg to mg look.

So anyway, that's the jist. It's just not designed for injections more frequent than 1 every 3 weeks. They also have a separate blend for injection every 2 weeks. What does this leave the BBer - the task of figuring out how to best apply a compound not specifically made for their needs. Given the blend and factoring ester weights to really get a good idea makes the calculations onerous. My personal opinion is that it's a hell of a lot easier and often cheaper to use a single ester and manage your frequency. Of course, how big of a deal is it - it's not life or death and obviously good gains can be made using it even 1x per week. As far as what is optimal for even blood levels, given what I've already covered, it's a frequency that balances out the short esters. How much more optimal and is it worth it for people to do it? I don't know (maybe use a spreadsheet, figure the ester weights, apply halflives, calculate the deviations, and chart it) it also likely depends on the person and how much he wants to bother himself with it.

That's my take on sustanon and that's also why you hear people talking about more frequent injections than 1x per week. Obviously from what I presented I think they are correct but I doubt that the majority has any idea and is merely repeating what someone else told them. So anyway, check out the link below and maybe search up the organon document I linked a few months back. I'd love to see such a spreadsheet made up but it's not something to which I'm willing to devote my own time since my involvement is zero. Personally, I think a comprehensive spreadsheet (still an estimate to some degree but a lot more accurate) would be a good basis for decision making and looking into this further. Afterall, this is how they designed the drug in the first place using simple calcs and analytics.

http://www.dundee.ac.uk/medther/tayendoweb/images/sustanon_injection.htm

Thanx for the momentary dose of sanity. When i hear people injecting sust eod, i just shake my head.

 

[Madcow2]

Thanx for the momentary dose of sanity. When i hear people injecting sust eod, i just shake my head.

Most people don't have a clue as to why they are doing this and I'd bet even those who understand why it might matter haven't bothered to sit down and do an analysis. Shit, if one person would just do it and take into account esterweights/halflives it would put this to bed. It's simply a question of how much more optimal an additional injection is and at what point for a given person will this incremental optimality outweigh the hassle of an additional injection. It's like dbol and blood levels. From a blood level standpoint 2x is a lot better than a single dose. 3x is better than 2x but by not nearly as much. 9x is better than 8x but damn the amount is so small it's not worth considering. Unfortunatelly the calcs and information for sustanon is a bit more in depth but it isn't rocket science here. Just application of some basic math.

If someone obtains the ester weights and calculates out the amount of test per mg that is left over in each of the components and then provides the half-lives (these calculations should be provided so I can check the math), I will do the spreadsheet. However, this information should have references listed because I'm not going to devote time for a spreadsheet unless this stuff is absolutely verified.

 

[BionicBC]

it isn't rocket science here. Just application of some basic math.

The whole world is "mathematics." Thats why I shy away from those who say they hate math. Math is life. (Damn, that sounded nerdy. But its true)
Bionic

 

[Makavelli]

Good post Bio. I've been saying this for years and yet I always see people on this board saying ed or eod. That doesn't make any sense. I don't know why, but on other boards everyone is in agreement that sust only needs to be injected once a week. Here, lots of people say eod. Hopefully this will set it straight.

 

[PolfaJelfa]

Bionic.....i have a diferent thought of mind about the whole process.......if im doing a small dose that fits into 1 pin ...i do it 1 day.....if im to do something else or more than 1 pin i spplit it up......i always max out my pin room sort to speak.....poking sucks when you do it often...thats why i always maximze the MG i can get in per shot...... There would be no way in heck..i would be wasting 2cc's of room and unnecessary scar tisue..( even from a 25 g i always use) to shoot 250 mg Ed or Eod. Thats crazy. But hey if you want to do it....go ahead.

 

[Outtlaw]

Some people are stupid. They believe sust has to be injected at least eod and nobody can tell them any differently. Im tired of wasting my time trying to reason with them anymore. Im still waiting for somebody to prove to me with a study that eod injections yeilded significantly better results than once or 2x a week injections of the same amount of mg's.

 

[Madcow2]

It matters as much as constant blood levels matter. Some people swear that there is no difference in taking dbol 1x per day vs. 3x per day. Math indicates that there is a massive difference in the stability of blood levels. Obviously some people don't feel that blood level stability matters to gains.

From my post above, it is plain to see why it would matter but only so much as from the stance that more constant blood levels are supperior to less constant levels. That's really all there is to debate. Math will absolutely reveal a difference (just a question of magnitude) so it comes to balancing injection frequency against stable blood levels and how much someone values stable blood levels and believes they correlate to significant added effect.

So, rather than talk about sustanon and ED or EOD, find something on the effect of stable vs. unstable blood levels because that's what is being debated.

As I said above, if someone can get the factors for ester weight and halflives, I'll provide the spreadsheets to illustrate the stability of various dosing patterns over time. However, this is only important as far as how much one values stable blood levels and believes they correlate to significant supperior effect.

There's really nothing else to talk about other than throwing around opinion.

1) figure out the value of stable blood levels
2) determine the stability of various dosing patters using Sust 250
3) weight the value of stability against the frequency of injections
4) This arrives at the optimal utility for a given individual where he is unwilling to take another injection for whatever added incremental stability that injection might provide

That's the basic block and tackle for solving this dilema. The rest is bullshit and conjecture which is exactly why this discussion always comes up and never gets resolved.

 

[Makavelli]

It matters as much as constant blood levels matter. Some people swear that there is no difference in taking dbol 1x per day vs. 3x per day. Math indicates that there is a massive difference in the stability of blood levels. Obviously some people don't feel that blood level stability matters to gains.

From my post above, it is plain to see why it would matter but only so much as from the stance that more constant blood levels are supperior to less constant levels. That's really all there is to debate. Math will absolutely reveal a difference (just a question of magnitude) so it comes to balancing injection frequency against stable blood levels and how much someone values stable blood levels and believes they correlate to significant added effect.

So, rather than talk about sustanon and ED or EOD, find something on the effect of stable vs. unstable blood levels because that's what is being debated.

As I said above, if someone can get the factors for ester weight and halflives, I'll provide the spreadsheets to illustrate the stability of various dosing patterns over time. However, this is only important as far as how much one values stable blood levels and believes they correlate to significant supperior effect.

There's really nothing else to talk about other than throwing around opinion.

1) figure out the value of stable blood levels
2) determine the stability of various dosing patters using Sust 250
3) weight the value of stability against the frequency of injections
4) This arrives at the optimal utility for a given individual where he is unwilling to take another injection for whatever added incremental stability that injection might provide

That's the basic block and tackle for solving this dilema. The rest is bullshit and conjecture which is exactly why this discussion always comes up and never gets resolved.

That's the point bro. Stable blood levels equal better gains. That's why orals should be taken throughout the day. With sust it's designed to release a steady stream of test throughout a long period of time. Again, if you're going to shoot it ed or eod, then use prop.

 

[got muscle]

Here is the normal 3 times a week chart

Monday, Wednesday, Friday shots
It never gets stable, just Here is Monday, Wednesday, Friday shots
It never gets stable, just develops a pattern after week 7


1 ...250 .......................238
2 ...0 ..........................201
3 ...250 .......................409
4 ...0 ..........................346
5 ...250 .......................532
6 ...0 ..........................451
7 ...0 ..........................384
Week 2
8 ...250 .......................566
9 ...0 ..........................480
10...250 .......................646
11...0 ..........................547
12...250 .......................703
13...0 ..........................595
14...0 ..........................507
Week 3
15...250 .......................672
16...0 ..........................569
17...250 .......................722
18...0 ..........................611
19...250 .......................758
20...0 ..........................642
21...0 ..........................547
Week 4
22...250 .......................706
23...0 ..........................598
24...250 .......................747
25...0 ..........................632
26...250 .......................776
27...0 ..........................657
28...0 ..........................560
Week 5
29...250 .......................717
30...0 ..........................607
31...250 .......................755
32...0 ..........................639
33...250 .......................782
34...0 ..........................662
35...0 ..........................564
Week 6
36...250 .......................721
37...0 ..........................610
38...250 .......................757
39...0 ..........................641
40...250 .......................784
41...0 ..........................663
42...0 ..........................656
Week 7
43...250 .......................722
44...0 ..........................611
45...250 .......................758
46...0 ..........................642
47...250 .......................784
48...0 ..........................664
49...250 .......................566
Week 8
50...250 .......................722
51...0 ..........................611
52...250 .......................758
53...0 ..........................642
54...250 .......................784
55...0 ..........................664
56...0...........................566
http://www.elitefitness.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=26482&stc=1

 

[PolfaJelfa]

It would be almost as stable if i shoot 500 mg on monday and 500 on friday......there would be only a sllight drop in the days between...SO WHAT? Even 1.25g 1x a week. Sure the levels would go down towards the end of the week....good then......all same final results.....The levels would be higher in the begining of the week , thus cause higher gains at the begining and less at the end. So WHAT? The outcome would still be the same. People tend to overanalize things. You do NOT need to shoot sust ED or Eod.

 

[Makavelli]

It would be almost as stable if i shoot 500 mg on monday and 500 on friday......there would be only a sllight drop in the days between...SO WHAT? Even 1.25g 1x a week. Sure the levels would go down towards the end of the week....good then......all same final results.....The levels would be higher in the begining of the week , thus cause higher gains at the begining and less at the end. So WHAT? The outcome would still be the same. People tend to overanalize things. You do NOT need to shoot sust ED or Eod.

That's right.

 

[Madcow2]

I'll tell you flat out that most everyone who has done one of these charts fails to take into account ester weight. This factor means that significantly more test is contained in the shorter esters than the longer in mg per mg. If this isn't taken into account is smooths the chart. Were there any references or other information provided regarding the chart? I wouldn't take anything for face value when it comes to stuff that people put up.

All that said, I also don't know why people don't use a single ester. Cheaper, much more control and accuracy with no debate whatsoever about injection frequency. Sustanon 'sounds cool' but it's just test and the funky blend was designed for injects over 3 weeks which isn't how anyone besides legit patients use it.

 

[BionicBC]

I'll tell you flat out that most everyone who has done one of these charts fails to take into account ester weight. This factor means that significantly more test is contained in the shorter esters than the longer in mg per mg. If this isn't taken into account is smooths the chart. Were there any references or other information provided regarding the chart? I wouldn't take anything for face value when it comes to stuff that people put up.

All that said, I also don't know why people don't use a single ester. Cheaper, much more control and accuracy with no debate whatsoever about injection frequency.

So that being said MadCow, what is the optimal injection frequency for Enanthate?
Bionic

 

[ryan04]

I've been taking 125 mgs sust 4 times a week and am having good results. Although it's water weight, I was up 9 lbs. in 10 days. I agree that it probably doesn't make too much of a difference, but I still think it makes more use of the prop in it. If I was taking the sust with something else that only needed to be shot once or twice a week, I wouldn't bother with the 4 x a week injections, but I'm also taking tren acetate every day, so it's no big deal to just mix in half a amp of sust.

 

[Madcow2]

So that being said MadCow, what is the optimal injection frequency for Enanthate?
Bionic

It depends. How much do you value the incremental stability in blood levels vs. another injection. There will still be variance but long esters are less severe over lower injection frequency and a whole lot easier to calculate with a single halflife (only a single ester weight makes this point moot because it's constant - unless of course you want exactly the same amount of test you get in 200mg of prop in which case you have to do some math).

To my mind it doesn't matter much. If I were to take 1-2ccs it would be 1x per week. If I had to take 4ccs I'd break it up and get it 2x per week, figuring that with 2 required injections regardless, you might as well space them to reap any increment providing it's convenient.

 

[milo hobgoblin]

I disagree with most of this thread.. I have NEVER found any Test blend to be as effective as Sustanon.

Peope always yammer about Test is test and the ester chain not mattering.. and yes while rings 1 and 2 are specific to affinity.. you all forget there is more to it than that.. half life does have an effect on efficacy.

Sust is an amazing drug and well designed.. 500mg every 7 to 9 days will work wonders and because of the low dosage of each compound you can use it for extended cycles and still expect amazing results.

Hell 500 mg/week-9 days of sust redijects gave me much better results than 8-900mg of enanthate over the same time period.

 

[BionicBC]

I disagree with most of this thread.. 500mg every 7 to 9 days will work wonders

Isn't this what most of us have been saying? To keep it to 1x per week minimum, even 1 e2w?

 

[BionicBC]

It depends. How much do you value the incremental stability in blood levels vs. another injection. There will still be variance but long esters are less severe over lower injection frequency and a whole lot easier to calculate with a single halflife (only a single ester weight makes this point moot because it's constant - unless of course you want exactly the same amount of test you get in 200mg of prop in which case you have to do some math).

To my mind it doesn't matter much. If I were to take 1-2ccs it would be 1x per week. If I had to take 4ccs I'd break it up and get it 2x per week, figuring that with 2 required injections regardless, you might as well space them to reap any increment providing it's convenient.

But if you want to take only 500mg/week (2cc), once a week is okay/optimal?

 

[Madcow2]

But if you want to take only 500mg/week (2cc), once a week is okay/optimal?

Well, if you make a chart 2 250mg injections are going to give you more stable blood levels than 1 500mg injection (the same with 3 vs. 2 and so on). So if optimal is the most stable blood levels possible regardless of hassle, the more injections the better (really, set up a suspension drip and be done with it). The effect is less drastic with longer esters but still exists nonetheless. A lot of this is about convenience which is a big reason people use long esters for this stuff particularly in HRT. Even for short half-life pills you can't tell people to take them around the clock every hour, you have to make life livable unless a condition is so severe that stability within a narrow range is absolutely required.

The question is, at what point does another injection outweight the benefits from that injection's additional stability to blood levels. That's going to depend upon your own tolerance for additional injections and how much you value stable blood levels (i.e. believe that a given improvement will really translate into more gains). Of course 1x per week will work and you will see gains. From a math standpoint 2x per week will provide more stability and theoretically better gains - how much so and has this been proven? I don't know.

It's safe to assume even leves provide better gains. You can only mobilize so much recovery and adaptation at one time (i.e. diminishing returns). Recovery happens 24 hours around the clock. To 1000 (whatevers - units unimportant) for 12 hours and 0 for the next 12 is likely a bit worse than 500 around the clock simply because an average is misleading due to diminishing returns (i.e. the first 333 means more than the next 333 which mean more than the final 333). To really illustrate it, how about concentrations of 2400 for 1 hour and 0 from the rest of the day. Likely 100 every hour is going to be better even though the average will be the same - only so much mobilization and recovery can take place at once.

Obviously the differnence will be night and day at extremes but reasonable dosing is far from extremes so you wind up with an increment. How important is the increment you get to you and how much of a hassle is that next injection worth to you?

 

[Outtlaw]

The question is, at what point does another injection outweight the benefits from that injection's additional stability to blood levels. That's going to depend upon your own tolerance for additional injections and how much you value stable blood levels (i.e. believe that a given improvement will really translate into more gains). Of course 1x per week will work and you will see gains. From a math standpoint 2x per week will provide more stability and theoretically better gains - how much so and has this been proven? I don't know.

I've been trying to get at this point for the longest. I want somebody to prove to me that more frequent injections(stable blood levels) equals better gains. I have yet to see somebody be able to back this up.

 

[Madcow2]

I've been trying to get at this point for the longest. I want somebody to prove to me that more frequent injections(stable blood levels) equals better gains. I have yet to see somebody be able to back this up.

I agree with what you are saying.

I don't think that there is any argument that it does - at least at the extremes (i.e. my examples above - 2400 available for only 1 hour then 0 for 23 hours vs. 100 available every hour for 24 hours, you can even make an example out of seconds to make it more clear). The quesiton is that once you are in a reasonable dosing pattern, what kind of variability is enough to notice a difference and hurt gains to any measurable degree?

I don't know that answer and I've never once seen anything presented on it but that is the key answer to the question. Once you know that, you can back into some form of reasonableness that balances optimality (which I guess would be near-absolute stability) with hassle of injections. Of course there are a lot of other factors going on, even half-lives are just an estimate but without knowing the level of volatility which produces significant effects (however small) we can't really go anywhere.

 

[FlexManning]

I don't think it would make a whole hell of a lot of difference if the only test left on Earth was cypionate in the grand scheme of things. The arguments about various esters are pretty inconsequential IMO.

 

[CENTURION44]

Well then what would be the proper dosing and inj. schedule for Prop????? I mean if one is taking 200mg of Enanth.. then why couldnt one take 200mg of Prop EW...broken up into 50mg injections EOD...IMHO..that would provide steady levels and minimal sides...for the long term Prop is my preference....any ideas..

 

[anabolic12]

Is Sust and Omna's amps the same things?


J/k... I had to say it...

Everyone makes good points here, but without going into detail.. Every cycle that I have ever done has included Sust/Omna with doses; as low as 250 a week for a cutter or up to 750 a week for a bulker. I have found, and of course this could just be the way my body reacts, but I have not seen a different between injecting 500mgs a week (twice a week) or 750mgs a week (3 times a week). I know this doesn’t really mean much towards the arguments of ED or EOD, but I can honestly say that just sounds like a waste of money to me. Again, could be my body, but the only difference I saw in between the 500mg and the 750mg was I felt that everything was kicking in around the end of week 2 rather than 3 or 4.

So with all that being said “Since I have not seen any REAL difference in injecting 250mgs more a week. I personally just stick with 500mgs. That’s what works for me, so why spend the money for ED or EOD injections. The smart thing to do would be order enough for ED or EOD injections, but just turn those baby’s into a couple of cycles  I would be willing to beat that my story is pretty much the same for everyone.

 

[digimon7068]

Your right....However what some people are trying to say is that if you do Ed or Eod injections, you simply keep the level completely steady and higher. However that as i have found from personal experience is not that important. It is fine doing it 2x week or even 1x week. No problems. Especially if your on other "supps"

Once a week worked great for me.

 

[itlnstln]

I've done (2) cycle with sus 500mg every 10 days with EXCELLENT results.

I would say anywhere between every 7-10 days is suffice.

 

[big_boy_1]

Recently Ive seen a lot of people pushing the idea that "blends" like sustanon, omnadren, (and its many UG variants), as well as Trinabol (Trenbolone blend) need to be injected ed or eod to make good use of the short esters (propionate, acetate). This just isnt true. If someone can give me evidence otherwise, Ill eat my words, edit my post, and apologize. If Im not mistaken, Sustanon was specifically invented to keep blood levels steady and even with LESS frequent injections-Otherwise, If youre gonna have to do ed or eod injections, why not just use a prop ester the whole way thru?
First off, to understand this, you must realize test is test, same goes for tren. Although half-lives/esters may be different, ITS THE SAME THING. Sustanon was invented as a blend to keep blood levels steady with LESS frequent injections. True, the prop in the sust blend (and the acetate in the Trinabol blend) causes the initial rise in test levels, but by the time this is decreasing, enough time has passed to allow some of the other esters to release and keep your test levels even. So ed or eod injections would cause an unwanted buildup of the longer acting esters, which will usually lead to unwanted side effects, particularly later on in the cycle.
Bionic

Ive tried both enanthate and sustanon, and sus sucks!
It peaks soon, yes, but by some reason feels WAY weaker than enanthate, the rest of the week.

Search my post "Why sustanon always feels weaker than enanthate"

 

[HiDnGoD]

OK, would sus be a good choice for HRT? & at what frequency?

 

[chyllaxyn]

I've seen this subject debated here many times before , usually the ED people out number the rest of us 5-1. I think Jelfa hit the point early on "personal experience" , and it depends on your goals.
I get good results w/ Sust , short 9-12 wk cycles, 250mg/E5D
Never had Any sides at all and have seen respectable gains all year.

 

[HiDnGoD]

I've seen this subject debated here many times before , usually the ED people out number the rest of us 5-1. I think Jelfa hit the point early on "personal experience" , and it depends on your goals.
I get good results w/ Sust , short 9-12 wk cycles, 250mg/E5D
Never had Any sides at all and have seen respectable gains all year.

This may seem like a stupid question, but. The amps I'm getting are, supposedly 500mg amps, in 2cc. So, I wanna take 1cc every week or so, how do I store the remaining cc? In a pin?

 

[Nighthawkk]

I've always had my best gains with Sust, hands down. It does not have to be used in any sort of absurd daily or ever other day dosage for good results. The esters are released in excellent timed fashion and even if you jab once every 7-12 days, you will still see great results. I personally go for twice a week, but that's just me. Either way, very good stuff.

 

[kjm94]

if you are training 4 days a week (mon, tues, thurs,fri) when should you shoot than?

maybe monday and thursday? any suggestions? iv been doing wednesday, saturday and just want to get the maximum results from the esters.

 

[mookie]

if you are training 4 days a week (mon, tues, thurs,fri) when should you shoot than?

maybe monday and thursday? any suggestions? iv been doing wednesday, saturday and just want to get the maximum results from the esters.

Stay the days your doing anytime is fine I am sus right now 2x a week mon and thur. I agree never understood why people say shoot eod.

 

[HiDnGoD]

OK, would sus be a good choice for HRT? & at what frequency?

This may seem like a stupid question, but. The amps I'm getting are, supposedly 500mg amps, in 2cc. So, I wanna take 1cc every week or so, how do I store the remaining cc? In a pin?

bmp

 

[Steve The Bluesman]

As far as real world experience, I am just coming off a Sust cycle where I injected every 4 days for 8 weeks. I did not have any acne or bloat like I did on test E. (I equate uneen blood levels to having acne), and I experienced good gains, at least as good as those on Test E.

So, for what it's worth, every 4 days worked well for me. There was no way I was going to go every other day, it would defeat the purpose and you may as well use prop.

Your mileage may vary.


Bluesman

 

[dullboy]

dullboy finds this thread fascinating.

question - would it be ok, or even ideal, to take one large dose (say 2 grams) of sustanon once every 3 weeks?

 

[Zuperman]

Wow,
this what I'm doing.....twice a wk @250 a jab,,,,,,,,so thats 500 a wk. I like it, what do guys think of that???
I think thats too much,,,I can't imagina jabbing more than twice a week!!! WTF,, what for ...Superman

 

[MassiveG300]

For some reason Sustanon always gets a bad rap on the boards as guys say "hard to control blood levels" WTF? Not to rehas as it has been covered in this thread but c'mon now-sust was designed for long acting use.
I always found sustanon to be a more effective mass builder over regular TE/TC.

I could see why one may inject sustanon more than once or twice a week if they are doing a heavy cycle of it and don't want to pump 5-6 cc's in one day.

Interesting ester just got approved for HRT in Europe by Schering Nebido
http://www.elitefitness.com/forum/showthread.php?t=454799

 

[gtrcivic]

you know my first time ever on, i did sust 250 from india for only 5 wk at 250...if i can recall, gained 18 lbs and kept 15lbs of it.....did a 10 wker few years later at 500 and gained 15lb and kept 10lb of it...w/no pct ...yeah my levels were whacked afterwards and broke out big time, but still kept most of the gains....